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New York, 5:12 PM
Fri Dec 18
68 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of fuchikoma fuchikoma
    11/06/09

    In reply to Study Claims Motion Blur Is a Non-Issue In Most Mid-To-High-End LCDs
    Just as there are "super noses" who can detect the slightest variation in a million wines, or people who can tell you exactly which frequency they're hearing, there will be people who can see blur in most LCDs.

    Personally I haven't seen LCD blur since around 12-15ms response times became the norm. I see MPEG artifacting and trailing, and even dim afterimages in HDMI signals on PS3 and 360, but motion is not an issue. #motionblur
     Reply
    fuchikoma was starred fuchikoma was unstarred
    Image of Meantux Meantux
    11/05/09

    In reply to Why You Don't Need To Spend Extra Money On a 240 Hz LCD TV
    To illustrate this effect we either need something filmed by a hd-high-speed camera or at least some high res snapshots of the difformed result, not with some low-res 15fps that adds its own artefacts and clunkyness. #refreshrates
     Reply
    d_r_e promoted this comment Meantux was starred Meantux was unstarred
    Image of HIcycles HIcycles
    11/05/09

    @Meantux: Right? I couldn't tell the difference. #refreshrates
     Reply
    d_r_e promoted this comment HIcycles was starred HIcycles was unstarred
    Image of d_r_e d_r_e
    11/05/09

    @HIcycles: Same here. I couldn't tell the difference either. #refreshrates
     Reply
    d_r_e was starred d_r_e was unstarred
    Image of Cash907Censored Cash907Censored
    11/06/09

    @Meantux:
    I'm glad I'm not the only person who got absolutely nothing other then confusion out of that video. #refreshrates
     Reply
    Cash907Censored was starred Cash907Censored was unstarred
    Image of TheClap TheClap
    11/05/09

    In reply to Why You Don't Need To Spend Extra Money On a 240 Hz LCD TV
    I um....cant tell the difference.... What is this soap opera effect? We have a Sony Bravia that has the 120Hz thing but I dont notice a soap opera effect. #refreshrates
     Reply
    TheClap was starred TheClap was unstarred
    Image of Geekfox Geekfox
    11/05/09

    @TheClap: Taking a 24 frame per second film and recreating frames (usually doubling frame rates or more) to life-like motion is what some called "soap opera" effect, as some TV shows like soap operas can broadcast a life-like motion of 60 frames per second while other shows or films or animated cartoons broadcast at 24 or 30 frames per second.

    Personally, I hate calling the effect "soap opera", as I don't watch soap operas -- but I think it's a critic's term to define life-like motions for motion interpolation features on HDTV sets. #refreshrates
     Reply
    dingus promoted this comment Geekfox was starred Geekfox was unstarred
    Image of Norm the Alligator Norm the Alligator
    11/05/09

    In reply to Why You Don't Need To Spend Extra Money On a 240 Hz LCD TV
    My set does 120 Hz, but I keep it off. I don't like watching high budget movies that result in looking like they're made for TV. My BluRay player gives me the option of 24p which is what I keep on instead. #refreshrates
     Reply
    psychonaut2021:Secrets of the Pineal Gland approved this comment Norm the Alligator was starred Norm the Alligator was unstarred
    Image of JayD16 JayD16
    11/05/09

    @Keith Noordzy: Isn't that more nostalgia than picture quality? #refreshrates
     Reply
    JayD16 was starred JayD16 was unstarred
    Image of Daniel Wong Daniel Wong
    11/05/09

    @JayD16: no its actually more accurate and has a better PQ. movies are made to be seen in 24hz #refreshrates
     Reply
    ripfire promoted this comment Daniel Wong was starred Daniel Wong was unstarred
    Image of ripfire ripfire
    11/05/09

    @Daniel Wong: Actually, while the film runs on 24hz, movie theater projectors flash the frames twice or three times the rate to reduce flicker. #refreshrates
     Reply
    ripfire was starred ripfire was unstarred
    Image of Cash907Censored Cash907Censored
    11/06/09

    @Norm the Alligator:
    Is this why bluray movies shown on new 240hz screens look like absolute surreal crap? The worst for this was animated movies like Wall*E, which reminded of those old school animations that came out of the first CGI college classes back in the early to mid 90's. You all know the ones I'm talking about. #refreshrates
     Reply
    Cash907Censored was starred Cash907Censored was unstarred
    Image of Cash907Censored Cash907Censored
    11/06/09

    @ripfire:
    Why would they do this? Flicker is a good thing, as it keeps the audience in a semi-trance, and glued to the movie screen. I just watched a program on Discovery HD that talked about how Sony had to spend millions getting their HD theater projectors to perform more like traditional film projectors, while keeping the higher resolution and cleaner image. #refreshrates
     Reply
    Cash907Censored was starred Cash907Censored was unstarred
    Image of aniteshj aniteshj
    11/05/09

    In reply to Why You Don't Need To Spend Extra Money On a 240 Hz LCD TV
    In the same way WHAT content is natively rendered at 120Hz, or 240Hz?

    I like my plasma because it doesn't pull the "soap opera effect" on everything I watch, and please don't say you can turn it off. The feature should exist to complement and add to the experiance. Not soap opera everything.

    Well everything I am saying is a moot point, I don't care what LCD has going for it.

    I have a Kuro. :P #refreshrates
     Reply
    aniteshj was starred aniteshj was unstarred
    Image of MarcusMaximus MarcusMaximus
    11/05/09

    @aniteshj: I do believe that effect is caused by Digital Natural Motion, which is a form of software processing, not by the 120/240Hz refresh rates themselves. Those refresh rates(at least this is the effect for me) actually make the frame rates of both film(for blu-ray disks, 24Hz) and HDTV(60Hz) go in evenly, which removes the need for nasty effects such as 3:2 pulldown. #refreshrates
     Reply
    ripfire promoted this comment MarcusMaximus was starred MarcusMaximus was unstarred
    Image of ripfire ripfire
    11/05/09

    @MarcusMaximus: Read the article. #refreshrates
     Reply
    ripfire was starred ripfire was unstarred
    Image of cbstryker cbstryker
    11/05/09

    @ripfire: MarcusMaximus is right. It's the software (or algorithms) that causes the issue. And the main benefit of a 240Hz TV is to be able to watch 3D content at 120Hz (per eye that is). For everything else 120Hz is just fine. Actually it's perfect. #refreshrates
     Reply
    ripfire promoted this comment cbstryker was starred cbstryker was unstarred
    Image of ripfire ripfire
    11/06/09

    @cbstryker: I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying read the article because it explains everything. #refreshrates
     Reply
    ripfire was starred ripfire was unstarred
    Image of Mike Mike
    11/05/09

    In reply to Why You Don't Need To Spend Extra Money On a 240 Hz LCD TV
    Does this affect LCDs with LED backlighting? I'm thinking of buying the Samsung LED TV but the 240 Hz is so much more expensive than the 120 Hz.
     Reply
    Nick promoted this comment Edited by Mike at 11/05/09 6:05 PM Mike was starred Mike was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    11/05/09

    @Mike: i don't think it is an issue that stems from the light source, but the processor. i believe it starts to incorporate frame interpolation with higher refresh rates and what not which ain't everyone's cup-o-noodle. #refreshrates
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of mlvds mlvds
    11/05/09

    @Mike: Just buy a Panasonic Plasma anything about S1 series...you can't go wrong...

    I have a 2006 600series and I been more then happy with it..

    There will be huge deal after Black Friday! #refreshrates
     Reply
    dingus promoted this comment mlvds was starred mlvds was unstarred
    Image of NeerajSV NeerajSV
    11/05/09

    @Nick: Its not the processor.. its the response time of the pixels to change state. Liquid crystals are, after all, physical entities that twist and bend to change the color of light passing though them. It take time to go from one state to anther. #refreshrates
     Reply
    Nick promoted this comment NeerajSV was starred NeerajSV was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    11/05/09

    @NeerajSV: your comment disagrees with what the original article seems to be alluding to. #refreshrates
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of Mike Mike
    11/05/09

    @mlvds: The room has a huge glass sliding door facing the sun. Plasmas are better for darker rooms. #refreshrates
     Reply
    Mike was starred Mike was unstarred
    Image of John Duffin John Duffin
    11/05/09

    @Nick: The issue with lcd is the response time as Nick says, generally around 6 - 8ms on LCD, however Plasma has much less time <1ms therefore less motionblur. The 120HZ and 240HZ interpolate extra frames to smooth out the picture. This can have a video effect on film based content, however i believe this to be far less so than the first chips that came out. The pro versions now input extra blank frames to further smooth the motion and give a more realistic effect. Response time is falling on LCD and however for now if you buy a good set with higher quality interpolation, the effect can be excellent especially on video content. #refreshrates
     Reply
    dingus promoted this comment John Duffin was starred John Duffin was unstarred
    Image of Cash907Censored Cash907Censored
    11/06/09

    @mlvds: Why would you do this, when you can buy a mirror that size for a hundred bucks, and get the same amount of enjoyment out of the fancy plasma you're talking up?

    Plasma's might be great in a totally dark room, but they are fucking worthless in the average living room. #refreshrates
     Reply
    Cash907Censored was starred Cash907Censored was unstarred
    Image of MarcusMaximus MarcusMaximus
    11/04/09

    In reply to Study Claims Motion Blur Is a Non-Issue In Most Mid-To-High-End LCDs
    Umm isn't the 60Hz important because it exactly matches broadcast HD framerate? And 120Hz is because both 60Hz(for the reason above) and 24Hz(because movies are filmed at 24Hz) both go evenly into it? I always thought the issue was more with dropped frames and the like due to mismatched frame rates. #motionblur
     Reply
    The Lab promoted this comment MarcusMaximus was starred MarcusMaximus was unstarred
    Image of N@tedog N@tedog
    11/04/09

    @MarcusMaximus: Stop with the curveballs. This is any easy yes or no question. With that in mind, you can never tame the beast. Moving on... #motionblur
     Reply
    N@tedog was starred N@tedog was unstarred
    Image of MarcusMaximus MarcusMaximus
    11/04/09

    @N@tedog: How is that a curveball? The article says that 60 and 120Hz refresh rates aren't necessary to not have motion blur, and I responded saying It was my understanding they were mainly for a different, unrelated function, and one which they do actually perform. As far as I can tell that's perfectly on topic and a valid response. #motionblur
     Reply
    MarcusMaximus was starred MarcusMaximus was unstarred
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