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To quote Robin Williams: "The French are some of the few people who still test their bombs. And where do they test them? In the Sahara, in ze total wasteland? No, fuck off! In Tahiti, in paradise. Why? Because they're French."
The scale is not linear, but then again neither is the blast radius in a nuclear weapon. I don't know the exact numbers and I'm too lazy to look them up, but a bomb with 2x the energy (i.e. 250 vs. 125 kT) would not produce an explosion twice the size.
@nutbastard: yeah. I looked it up, it's called "equivalent megaton (EMT).
EMT = Y^2/3 where Y is in megatons.
This relation arises from the fact that the destructive power of a bomb does not vary linearly with the yield. The volume the weapon's energy spreads into varies as the cube of the distance, but the destroyed area varies at the square of the distance.
Mother of God, there's still been tests going up into 2007? Even the U.S. conducting tests on into the 90s. And that's just documented. One can only assume not every nuclear test gets announced to the public right away.
Man.....I mean, it's not like I could argue that I'd know better how to run a military (spoiler alert: I wouldn't) but.....this is just depressing.
@OCEntertainment: If you look at the locations for any post 90's test you'll see they are in locations that we have actively opposed having nuclear weapons.
As for tests in the 90's, I'm a bit ambivalent, and can understand why Bill Clinton would approve of the testing at the time.
I think as a younger group we have no clue how terrifying it was in the 50's when we realized that the USSR was further ahead of us in the nuclear arms department. Leaders in the 90's remember this and at the time Russia was still extremely unstable. I'm not saying it was the right choice, but I'm saying that if I was in that position and had the memories that the folks at NORAD and in the White House had of the Cold War, I don't think the decision would be as simple as we are making it out to be here.
@NorwoodIsMyHero: Oh, I think I agree with you. I mean, I couldn't fathom that the decision to develop nuclear arms. And I'm not sure how to take the high road when the lives of your entire country is at stake. I'm not even sure what that road is. It's simply too complex, and I have far too small a view of even today's political climate, much less the climate of history to say how it should've gone down.
Nonetheless, the fact remains. It's sad. Just universally. It's sad. More people in the future will die, and a whole lot of them don't have to.
@OCEntertainment: You can't hide a nuclear explosion on this planet. Too many ground sensors will register it. We could pinpoint it within an hour, probably less.
@barrywoods: You know that scene in Return of the King where Sam and Frodo are in Mordor, getting close to the end of their journey and Sam hands Frodo the last few drops of water?
....Your comment is comforting to know. A small comfort in a sea of bad news, but a welcome one.
Ed Ou is photographer extraordinaire. I'm not going to get involved in the political debate suffice to say we have enough crap now to deal with.
I went to see Ed Ou's work at the Gettyimages Gallery in London when he won the Ian Parry Scholarship. It was accompanied with the stories of all the people in the photographs although the images alone are enough to trigger some truly deep thought and a regret that wasn't mine to bare.
I also remembered that there are hundreds of thousands of people and families in facing similar plights all over the world... that made the world hundreds of thousands times worse in an instant.
That's what the photography made me feel.
And now for a cup of tea and sit down. #nucleartest
I try to smile and be a bit optimistic because, no matter how monstrous some men and women can be, the human spirit always seems to find a way to survive.
This isn't meant as a specific criticism, more like an artistic critique: the end of that post was really not good. I mean... I think it takes away from the reporting, the gallery and the linking to this great book to end off with a sort of pedestrian "oh but I FEEL human spirit triumph adversotragedy tears kittens fuzzwarm ME." #nucleartest
@Pope John Peeps II: I wasn't tried to report. The Big Picture guy already did that. This was about what this makes me feel, that's all. It may be clichéd, but I'm not going to stop saying what I feel and think just because it sound clichéd. #nucleartest
@Jesus Diaz: It just would have made this post way stronger to have left it with the clean idea of a great tragedy, instead of trying to sort of mollify it. After all the talk of the great Stalinesque killing machines and the atomic war plague, why am I supposed to feel that the human spirit is indomitably cheerful? I mean. When Troy burned, nobody ever said "well, at least we're warm". #nucleartest
@Jesus Diaz: I'm not sure if that's a joke or not? They didn't burn Troy in the Iliad.
@macserv: THIS blog is all about writing for an audience. It's not specifically anything personal. So they're writing to please US. And if I find that something pretty cheeseball ruins a good post, then why wouldn't I say so? That's what these comments are for, right? #nucleartest
This article made me post my first comment here, though I've been a gizmodo reader for some time now.
I have noticed too (as fore written) that despite a single mention in your introduction, you are emphasizing on these horrible crimes committed by former USSR. I feel the need to point out, that the US is no less viable for crimes against humanity than any other nation that has used nuclear weapons which caused the same pain and suffering that is depicted in these photos.
To close this comment, I pray that every nation that has such frightening power in its hands (including US, it has a vast nuclear arsenal in its disposal too) never use it again. And to that extent never engage in war with another nation again. War brings only pain and suffering (appart from vast amounts of profit to multinational corp. giants, but that's another topic). #nucleartest
@BloodRoze: Except that the United States never wiped out tens of millions of its own people in political purges and caused such irreparable harm while testing nuclear weapons.
Sorry, as horrific as the results of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, there is no comparison. The Soviets were worse by a whole magnitude of order at least, all in the name of testing/saber rattling. At least the USA was trying to end a war. #nucleartest
@BloodRoze: No dude, no matter what the US has done, there is NO comparison with what the USSR did. If you are saying that, you clearly don't have a fucking clue about what you are talking about. Go read the statistics on the Soviet Union killing machine, and the practices against their own people and others. #nucleartest
@Barion: Exactly, there's no comparison. The Soviet state killed 62 million people for political reason. SIXTY TWO MILLION. And that's just executions and dead camps. Add things like those depicted in this article (or the deads produced by industrialization, famines, or WW2, which Stalin started with Hitler). Compare that to the second in the killing machine. 32 million deaths in the Communist Chinese revolution.
How any idiot can compare the terror inflicted upon those people during SIXTY years with whatever the US or any other country—except China and Germany, and to a lesser extent Japan, Cambodia, Turkey, Vietnam, and North Korea—has done is beyond me.
It just shows rampant anti-americanism and/or complete stupidity and ignorance. Probably both.
@BloodRoze: I will "go there". American practices are absolutely 'civilized' within the positive definition of that term. Take your moral relativistic horseshit elsewhere. Anyone who creates moral equivalency between "America's sins" and those of the USSR, China, North Korea, National Socialism, Khmer Rouge, or other totalitarian, genocidal regimes does not deserve the respect of a proper argument.
And on the point of nuclear weapons, I would say that their very existence has prevented the world from breaking out in another conventional war on the scale of WWI or WWII, in which dozens of millions of lives are lost. Even the bombs dropped on Japan arguably saved 1 million + American soldiers and countless Japanese lives.
@chauncy that billups: "American practices are absolutely 'civilized' within the positive definition of that term. " - Either your only source of information regarding what happens in this world, and America's practices to this extent, are your brainwashing, mind-numbling corporate media giants, or you are just plain naive. I don't have nor the time, nor the will to try to make you open your eyes and see what kind of practices has the US adopted. All I can offer to someone like you is an advice: Stop playing modern warfare and find your self some reliable sources of information instead of the lies that your media and goverment are feeding you (and that is if you have actually ever wondered about what really goes on, and are not masturbating the whole day with a semi-naked, lvl50, elf wizard). Excuse me for the tone of my reply but if you show no respect, so shall I. #nucleartest
I think our generation does need a reminder every once in a while that nukes aren't just some sort of cool visual or far-fetched joke. It's really sad that our planet puts its infinite knowledge toward this kind of thing.
I think the photographer deserves an enormous amount of credit. Not only is it very good work, but it takes some serious balls to approach people who have suffered so much and depict them with dignity and respect.
If you guys haven't actually followed the photographer's link, I highly recommend it. The other images are just as moving. #nucleartest
@Markarian: I think it's more important to remind ourselves that conventional weapons can and have been far more deadly, both due to the physical effects, and because, without a stigma attached to them, such weapons are far more likely to actually be used. #nucleartest
@Barman1942: wtf? Do you realize that due to those same weapons, that less likely "another world war" would be more of an apocalypse than a war?
I simply can't understand the argument that weapons escalation is in fact for world peace. Would you pad your car with explosives if it made it somehow less likely to crash?
Not talking about relying on national and military leaders to appreciate the consequences of the use of the weapons... let's all go read Watchmen and play Missile Commander. #nucleartest
@fredcadete: I'm not saying they're the best way to prevent a full scale conventional world war, but you have to admit they did prevent one, considering the tensions between the west and the east back then, no side was willing to engage in a full scale war because they were afraid the other side would retaliate with nukes.
I'm not advocating that we should always rely on nukes to prevent war, I'm merely stating that they did. #nucleartest
@fredcadete: You obviously are not familiar with the concept of Mutually assured destruction as a war preventer. Given humanity's basic rationality, it's worked pretty well so far. That's why religious terrorism is so scary. There is no rational hesitation to use such weapons, because "hey, if they kill us too, we'll be in paradise." Security by weapons escalation is a double-edged sword, to be sure. #nucleartest
@chauncy that billups: I'm actually aware of that concept, thank you very much. I just think that the added damage of a "mutually assured destruction" war far outweighs the admittedly smaller risk of that war. Especially in the long run: you're not putting nuclear weapons back into the box. #nucleartest
Last year I wanted to learn about the Chernobyl disaster, and scoured the web for everything related to the incident. There are a few photography sites detailing the apathy of the survivors. When I read the title of this entry, I realised it would be something similar, and it is.
Not the first time that I am seeing images like these, and the worst part is that every time I see these images, I think we, the readers and the writers, are far detached from this reality. Seeing these images only wells up a feeling akin to sadness and pain, which abates as soon as we skip over to the next article about another gadget. Isn't that sad, I mean, really really sad?
It was, no doubt, a good read. But I disagree with '... no matter how monstrous some men and women can be, the human spirit always seems to find a way to survive... '. Maybe the survival of human spirit is what is exactly wrong with humans. I can't even begin to imagine the life lived by people in those photographs, and the fact of the matter is, there are many more such lives being crafted every day. All thanks to one of the many human follies, Nuclear technology. #nucleartest
@Rex the Decadent: I think it's the fact that (some) of these people can live out functional lives and see it in themselves to be happy is what gives us that human spirit comment. Even so, many more lives were destroyed. #nucleartest
@Rex the Decadent: "Nuclear technology" is something that was discovered; it wasn't like someone dreamed up these consequences and said, "Let's do it." #nucleartest
Who mourns the dead?
We are all taught about Nagasaki, Hiroshima and Chernobyl We see there pictures everywhere, hear the cries and the condemnations.
But where are the pictures of Wieluń and Frampol, or Dresden and Hamburg, or Tokyo and Halabja.
Where are the cries for those killed by fire and gas? The condemnations for those who developed that most terrible of strategies called 'Terror Bombing'?
Who are you to say that these dead represent the evil nature of man, but those dead are to be ignored?
By what factor is the tragedy of Hiroshima not equaled and more by the hellstorm of Tokyo?
What is represented by the Atom that is not to be found in magnesium, phosphorous and petroleum?
Just the word "Dresden" is enough to conjure up images of one of America's worst moments. Similarly, for nearly a century, those killed by gas in the fields of France have been remembered and mourned. Likewise, America's use of napalm in Vietnam has also been a black mark on its history.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki do get a lot of attention - as they did during the Reagan years. But the world has never forgotten the firebombing of Dresden or the bombing of Tokyo or the horrors of mustard and chlorine gas or the twin terrors of napalm and Agent Orange.
A lot of ink has been spilled for those dead. Just because Jesus wrote an article about the lingering effects of atomic and nuclear testing does not mean that the world has forgotten about the other victims of WWI, WWII or Vietnam. #nucleartest
@OMG! Ponies!: I'm not talking about the world here, Jesus has written several articles on the horrors of nuclear weapons, but not one that I know of on the horrors of incendiary or gas weapons which have killed far more and are much more emblematic of Man's inhumanity to Man. #nucleartest
@EdgarJPublius: Don't forget, lead, iron, bronze, wood, glass, steel, tar, water...
More people died over land and religion then from the atom. #nucleartest
@En0s1:
More to come soon in a town near you. Could someone come up with number of nuclear tests that comes close to the real one? Summing up the whole world nuclear detonations. Watch Alex Jones documentaries on youtube.
The principles of nuclear power and energy are just beautiful.
It shows how mankind has achieved success in their search for knowledge.
It's really sad however that the first use we gave to nuclear power was to destroy each other and to create fear. If those who started nuclear research could have imagined what others would do with that knowledge, they'd have resigned to that knowledge.
If all the funds that went into research and construction of nuclear weapons, would have been invested in researching nuclear power plants and safer ways to dispose radioactive waste, maybe and just maybe we will be writing these comments using green energy, not worrying too much about what we've done to our planet, and these people would be living really different lifes.
It's not their faces, but there is something in those photos that tells us how much they want to live, maybe they havent even think'd about wanting to die, and most of us would think they have the right to think that.
They just don't care about their blackberry battery dying, or their iphone being better than their coworker's cellphone, they care about waking up one more day and just living it. #nucleartest
12/08/09
12/08/09
12/08/09
12/08/09
12/08/09
well what do you mean by 'size'? blast radius?
12/08/09
EMT = Y^2/3 where Y is in megatons.
This relation arises from the fact that the destructive power of a bomb does not vary linearly with the yield. The volume the weapon's energy spreads into varies as the cube of the distance, but the destroyed area varies at the square of the distance.
12/08/09
Man.....I mean, it's not like I could argue that I'd know better how to run a military (spoiler alert: I wouldn't) but.....this is just depressing.
12/08/09
As for tests in the 90's, I'm a bit ambivalent, and can understand why Bill Clinton would approve of the testing at the time.
I think as a younger group we have no clue how terrifying it was in the 50's when we realized that the USSR was further ahead of us in the nuclear arms department. Leaders in the 90's remember this and at the time Russia was still extremely unstable. I'm not saying it was the right choice, but I'm saying that if I was in that position and had the memories that the folks at NORAD and in the White House had of the Cold War, I don't think the decision would be as simple as we are making it out to be here.
12/08/09
Nonetheless, the fact remains. It's sad. Just universally. It's sad. More people in the future will die, and a whole lot of them don't have to.
12/08/09
12/08/09
....Your comment is comforting to know. A small comfort in a sea of bad news, but a welcome one.
11/10/09
I went to see Ed Ou's work at the Gettyimages Gallery in London when he won the Ian Parry Scholarship. It was accompanied with the stories of all the people in the photographs although the images alone are enough to trigger some truly deep thought and a regret that wasn't mine to bare.
I also remembered that there are hundreds of thousands of people and families in facing similar plights all over the world... that made the world hundreds of thousands times worse in an instant.
That's what the photography made me feel.
And now for a cup of tea and sit down. #nucleartest
11/10/09
I try to smile and be a bit optimistic because, no matter how monstrous some men and women can be, the human spirit always seems to find a way to survive.
This isn't meant as a specific criticism, more like an artistic critique: the end of that post was really not good. I mean... I think it takes away from the reporting, the gallery and the linking to this great book to end off with a sort of pedestrian "oh but I FEEL human spirit triumph adversotragedy tears kittens fuzzwarm ME." #nucleartest
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
@macserv: THIS blog is all about writing for an audience. It's not specifically anything personal. So they're writing to please US. And if I find that something pretty cheeseball ruins a good post, then why wouldn't I say so? That's what these comments are for, right? #nucleartest
11/10/09
I have noticed too (as fore written) that despite a single mention in your introduction, you are emphasizing on these horrible crimes committed by former USSR. I feel the need to point out, that the US is no less viable for crimes against humanity than any other nation that has used nuclear weapons which caused the same pain and suffering that is depicted in these photos.
To close this comment, I pray that every nation that has such frightening power in its hands (including US, it has a vast nuclear arsenal in its disposal too) never use it again. And to that extent never engage in war with another nation again. War brings only pain and suffering (appart from vast amounts of profit to multinational corp. giants, but that's another topic). #nucleartest
11/10/09
Sorry, as horrific as the results of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, there is no comparison. The Soviets were worse by a whole magnitude of order at least, all in the name of testing/saber rattling. At least the USA was trying to end a war. #nucleartest
11/10/09
11/10/09
How any idiot can compare the terror inflicted upon those people during SIXTY years with whatever the US or any other country—except China and Germany, and to a lesser extent Japan, Cambodia, Turkey, Vietnam, and North Korea—has done is beyond me.
It just shows rampant anti-americanism and/or complete stupidity and ignorance. Probably both.
Whoever thinks alike, go READ:
[www.hawaii.edu] #nucleartest
11/10/09
Secondly, I think I have some clue, otherwise I would be not talking. However, this whole topic is about nuclear weapons and the terror it inflicts.
Again, it is not about who has scored more "hitpoints". It is about the value of a single human life.
Regarding practices, you are stating that American practices are civilized? I do not think you really want to go there. #nucleartest
11/10/09
And on the point of nuclear weapons, I would say that their very existence has prevented the world from breaking out in another conventional war on the scale of WWI or WWII, in which dozens of millions of lives are lost. Even the bombs dropped on Japan arguably saved 1 million + American soldiers and countless Japanese lives.
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
[deoxy.org]
Signed: [deoxy.org]
And that alone regarding only Iraq.. But hey, shit happens.. It IS war after all, right?
Please, let us not go any further than this. We are vastly off topic. #nucleartest
11/10/09
I think the photographer deserves an enormous amount of credit. Not only is it very good work, but it takes some serious balls to approach people who have suffered so much and depict them with dignity and respect.
If you guys haven't actually followed the photographer's link, I highly recommend it. The other images are just as moving. #nucleartest
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
I simply can't understand the argument that weapons escalation is in fact for world peace. Would you pad your car with explosives if it made it somehow less likely to crash?
Not talking about relying on national and military leaders to appreciate the consequences of the use of the weapons... let's all go read Watchmen and play Missile Commander. #nucleartest
11/10/09
I'm not advocating that we should always rely on nukes to prevent war, I'm merely stating that they did. #nucleartest
11/10/09
It still freaks me out and I get all antsy talking about it :S
#nucleartest
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
Not the first time that I am seeing images like these, and the worst part is that every time I see these images, I think we, the readers and the writers, are far detached from this reality. Seeing these images only wells up a feeling akin to sadness and pain, which abates as soon as we skip over to the next article about another gadget. Isn't that sad, I mean, really really sad?
It was, no doubt, a good read. But I disagree with '... no matter how monstrous some men and women can be, the human spirit always seems to find a way to survive... '. Maybe the survival of human spirit is what is exactly wrong with humans. I can't even begin to imagine the life lived by people in those photographs, and the fact of the matter is, there are many more such lives being crafted every day. All thanks to one of the many human follies, Nuclear technology. #nucleartest
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
We are all taught about Nagasaki, Hiroshima and Chernobyl We see there pictures everywhere, hear the cries and the condemnations.
But where are the pictures of Wieluń and Frampol, or Dresden and Hamburg, or Tokyo and Halabja.
Where are the cries for those killed by fire and gas? The condemnations for those who developed that most terrible of strategies called 'Terror Bombing'?
Who are you to say that these dead represent the evil nature of man, but those dead are to be ignored?
By what factor is the tragedy of Hiroshima not equaled and more by the hellstorm of Tokyo?
What is represented by the Atom that is not to be found in magnesium, phosphorous and petroleum?
11/10/09
Just the word "Dresden" is enough to conjure up images of one of America's worst moments. Similarly, for nearly a century, those killed by gas in the fields of France have been remembered and mourned. Likewise, America's use of napalm in Vietnam has also been a black mark on its history.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki do get a lot of attention - as they did during the Reagan years. But the world has never forgotten the firebombing of Dresden or the bombing of Tokyo or the horrors of mustard and chlorine gas or the twin terrors of napalm and Agent Orange.
A lot of ink has been spilled for those dead. Just because Jesus wrote an article about the lingering effects of atomic and nuclear testing does not mean that the world has forgotten about the other victims of WWI, WWII or Vietnam. #nucleartest
11/10/09
11/10/09
More people died over land and religion then from the atom. #nucleartest
11/09/09
I hope our collective brilliance can one day bring advancements without terror and technology that will truly bring peace the world over.
These pictures are heartbreaking. #nucleartest
11/09/09
More to come soon in a town near you. Could someone come up with number of nuclear tests that comes close to the real one? Summing up the whole world nuclear detonations. Watch Alex Jones documentaries on youtube.
11/09/09
We don't learn, do we? #nucleartest
11/09/09
It shows how mankind has achieved success in their search for knowledge.
It's really sad however that the first use we gave to nuclear power was to destroy each other and to create fear. If those who started nuclear research could have imagined what others would do with that knowledge, they'd have resigned to that knowledge.
If all the funds that went into research and construction of nuclear weapons, would have been invested in researching nuclear power plants and safer ways to dispose radioactive waste, maybe and just maybe we will be writing these comments using green energy, not worrying too much about what we've done to our planet, and these people would be living really different lifes.
It's not their faces, but there is something in those photos that tells us how much they want to live, maybe they havent even think'd about wanting to die, and most of us would think they have the right to think that.
They just don't care about their blackberry battery dying, or their iphone being better than their coworker's cellphone, they care about waking up one more day and just living it. #nucleartest
11/09/09