Senior Contributing Editors:
Jesus Diaz
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Chris Jacob
@phicaluk: Also, you'd think that the Spanish, of all people, would have some sense of perspective about what actually constitutes a Fascist dictatorship
If I wanted indignant hyperbole about how eliminating peer-to-peer downloading is a destruction of humanity's most basic freedoms, I'd have gone to Slashdot, not Gizmodo. Seriously, it's a little over-the-top. I understand that Spanish law is kind of shitty, but come on, Jesus.
@InsidiousTuna: The basic freedom that is in question here is the right to due process. Being able to shut down someone's website is the equivalent of being able to shut down someone's store without any legal action.
Imagine this scenario:
You own an internet cafe. One day you come to work to open up in the morning and it looks like someone broke in. All the equipment is gone. There is a sign on the door that says "for Lease." But you paid your rent regularly. You look a little closer. There is a notice taped on the inside of the door. It says, "This establishment has been closed on the authority of the Ministry of Culture for the suspected complicity in the pirating of music and movies."
Nope, nothing wrong there. Move along. No basic freedoms being stomped on.
How in the world can they possibly justify this? I'm guessing that they can only close sites hosted on servers in Spain, and users located in Spain, right?
What a load of crap, just for that I'm going to fire up u-torrent; download Flamenco and Todo sombre mi madre and Seed them for MONTHS.
@Bertone77: Nice idea. I think I'm going to be torrenting quite a bit of Heroes del Silencio in the next few days. (That'd be the only Spanish band I actually listen to).
Usually I think you're bit over the top, Jesus, but you could not be more right about this. How could an abhorrent violation of rights like this come to pass? There is no room for this in a country who's government usually touts the freedoms of it's people.
The Euro area in general has very strong union and trade group lobbies. Well we in America tend to assume their governments are less intrusive than ours after the Patriot Act, their labor groups are exceptionally skilled at arm-twisting the government to get them whatever they want, no matter how damaging it is to individual rights.
Thats pretty horrific. This could be used as you say to close ANY site. How long till all Spanish sites criticising a movie or any artistic endeavour because the artist disagrees.
@NoxDomini: They already tried. An "artist" called RamoncÃn—member of the Spanish RIAA equivalent—tried to close a critical YouTube channel and closed some webs against him just using his lawyers. Imagine when they have this power.
@Jesus Diaz: Thanks for reporting on this. The idea of an organization like the RIAA having the power to shut down sites at will is terrifying. Does Spain have any organizations similar to the Electronic Frontier Foundation to take up the banner and push forward for consumer rights?
@blash: I had thought of that after I posted but yes, if they can't delete a site they might "encourage" ISP's to block them. Might need some new laws to stop being called in to question on it but that doesn't appear to bother them.
Jesus Diaz, if you don't comprehend, I suggest you re-read the article. It explains the concepts very carefully, and to pretend that it doesn't make sense because you disagree with the value statement makes you intellectually dishonest. Disagree, but don't pretend you don't comprehend. #viacom
@Nick: the lack of comprehension here I don't feel is real. Señor Fricklas, as Jesus referred to him, said he feels for users, and doesn't want to target 'fair use', and has already focused on direct copies. That is his advice, and that is what the enforcement goes after.
However, copyright law isn't as simplistic as that. If you don't aggressively enforce all rights you have, the relative value of that property goes down. I'm not a lawyer, but I do stay current, and I've read some of the major rulings like Eldridge V. Ashcroft, and I can't say that I agree on a moral level, but on a logical structure, you can't half-step protection of your property.
I felt that Jesus implying that the lawyer feeling bad about the requirements of law, but doing his job correctly, not immorally, made it seem silly. Sorry. #viacom
The guy is doing his job to the best of his ability, and IMHO you cant fault someone for that. Its not easy doing a job no one likes you for.
As far as peer to peer, they can close the sites, but that wont stop it. The more they push, the more we will push back. The end result is no winner. Maybe its time we rethought the game and decided how to go from lose/lose to win/win. #viacom
@MarcusMaximus: There are plenty of jobs. It's whether you want to "do" that kind of work...or not. And for that little pay.
Personally, if I could collect welfare, and live in a decent apartment, with controlled rent, and walk/subway to whatever I need...shityeah... #viacom
@nutbastard: Even dirty jobs have to get done. I have one of those jobs, and its not fun at times, but, I do it to the best of my ability anyway. #viacom
while i dont dispute the dirtiness of his job, i do call into question whether or not this particular job (suing p2p users) HAS to get done. there's cleaning out the latrines and then there's jailing potheads - both dirty jobs, but only one HAS to get done. #viacom
Ha ha, it's a really great one from a pretty good lawyer. Message: we're human. So we need to make a buck, hoist a few students from the rafters to protect our business model. Doesn't mean we don't feel bad about it. But it's a dog eat dog world out there... #viacom
* 'Message' does not indicate a definitive statement. Views and opinions expressed within 'Message' are those of the author, and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the hosting website, Viacom, or any of its parent companies or subsidiaries.
** 'We' refers to the author of the 'Message'*, and is not intended to refer to all practitioners of Law.
*** 'Human' means "bipedal primate belonging to the species Homo sapiens". Viacom makes no claim, express or implied, regarding the humanity of Homo erectus, Homo habilis, or Homo floresiensis #viacom
I'd advise any folks here to read the rest of that article. The guy isn't a hardcore repentant turncoat like the excerpt makes it sound. But it's a good read on the perspective of a fairly reasonable guy on the opposite side of the fence.
His current support for graduated response still worries me. Especially that he'd prefer the courts not get involved. The fact that he at least advocates some kind of appeals process is encouraging, though. Just...a tiny bit. #viacom
12/02/09
12/02/09
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a professional blogger Godwin himself before.
12/02/09
12/02/09
Neighborhood/Coworker sharing is working pretty well for us.
12/02/09
12/02/09
Imagine this scenario:
You own an internet cafe. One day you come to work to open up in the morning and it looks like someone broke in. All the equipment is gone. There is a sign on the door that says "for Lease." But you paid your rent regularly. You look a little closer. There is a notice taped on the inside of the door. It says, "This establishment has been closed on the authority of the Ministry of Culture for the suspected complicity in the pirating of music and movies."
Nope, nothing wrong there. Move along. No basic freedoms being stomped on.
Right.
12/02/09
What a load of crap, just for that I'm going to fire up u-torrent; download Flamenco and Todo sombre mi madre and Seed them for MONTHS.
12/02/09
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12/02/09
These assholes make me sick.
12/02/09
I'm not sure who makes me more sick, the government for passing the law or the artists who try and take advantage.
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11/17/09
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However, copyright law isn't as simplistic as that. If you don't aggressively enforce all rights you have, the relative value of that property goes down. I'm not a lawyer, but I do stay current, and I've read some of the major rulings like Eldridge V. Ashcroft, and I can't say that I agree on a moral level, but on a logical structure, you can't half-step protection of your property.
I felt that Jesus implying that the lawyer feeling bad about the requirements of law, but doing his job correctly, not immorally, made it seem silly. Sorry. #viacom
11/17/09
11/17/09
As far as peer to peer, they can close the sites, but that wont stop it. The more they push, the more we will push back. The end result is no winner. Maybe its time we rethought the game and decided how to go from lose/lose to win/win. #viacom
11/17/09
"Its not easy doing a job no one likes you for."
yeah but it IS easy to, you know, get another job. #viacom
11/17/09
11/17/09
we're talking viacoms top lawyer. i dont think he's short on options. #viacom
11/17/09
Personally, if I could collect welfare, and live in a decent apartment, with controlled rent, and walk/subway to whatever I need...shityeah... #viacom
11/17/09
11/17/09
while i dont dispute the dirtiness of his job, i do call into question whether or not this particular job (suing p2p users) HAS to get done. there's cleaning out the latrines and then there's jailing potheads - both dirty jobs, but only one HAS to get done. #viacom
11/17/09
when the height of ones aspirations is to suck on the government teat, one must seriously reconsider the definition of 'living'. #viacom
11/17/09
Watch "Dirty Jobs" w/Mike Rowe every Tuesday at 9 on Discovery. #viacom
11/17/09
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11/17/09
Because he is a lawyer. He has no soul. Look into his eyes... What do you see? Nothing. Absolutely nothing... #viacom
11/17/09
11/17/09
from a lawyer, it's more like this:
"Message*: we**'re human.***"
* 'Message' does not indicate a definitive statement. Views and opinions expressed within 'Message' are those of the author, and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the hosting website, Viacom, or any of its parent companies or subsidiaries.
** 'We' refers to the author of the 'Message'*, and is not intended to refer to all practitioners of Law.
*** 'Human' means "bipedal primate belonging to the species Homo sapiens". Viacom makes no claim, express or implied, regarding the humanity of Homo erectus, Homo habilis, or Homo floresiensis #viacom
11/17/09
His current support for graduated response still worries me. Especially that he'd prefer the courts not get involved. The fact that he at least advocates some kind of appeals process is encouraging, though. Just...a tiny bit. #viacom
11/17/09
Because Viacom pays his bills and his conscience doesn't. #viacom