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Chris Jacob
@Jrsy Devil's Advocate®: If anything, Sony would probably want more. Since they *probably* wont be buying any games for the consoles. Or, someone is planning a huge MW2 LAN party. A man can dream.
@Jrsy Devil's Advocate®: I'd think they'd get an extra charge. The reason it makes sense to buy PS3s for supercomputing like this is because Sony sells the PS3 at a loss and recoups that cost with the huge profits on games. I don't think these PS3s will lead to a lot of game purchases by the US government, so whoever they bought them from must be somewhat annoyed.
Along with 2200 copies of MW2 our "next-gen" soldiers will finally receive realistic training and will be more capable due to perks providing increased ammo and faster running speed. Not to mention the morale boost from soldiers getting achievements and the simplification of the entire battle process with "action buttons" allowing each soldier to win the war with an appropriately timed button press of the correct color and geometric shape.
@Jamez: I thought the popular thing to blame stuff on these days was still global warming. I guess we are getting close to winter and Christmas though.
@Nathan Obbards: hey be nice to the air force...just because they...uh...umm...just because they took over officially watch dogging the internet from the NSA and mostly fly unmanned drones...who says they don't still care?
@Nathan Obbards: Hey hey, there are plenty of Air Force career fields that see combat.
Just cause I am a mechanic and sit 700 miles from the lines doesn't mean we don't have guys running convoys through the heart of Baghdad.
I am just yanking your chain. But we do have quite a few guys that see combat. Think of Tyrese in Transformers. Him calling in air strikes. AF really has those guys attached to Army units.
I'm suspecting they will add services like Steam's Cloud. Where you can save and sync your save files & configurations online and sync them between different devices. For instance, being able to quickly switch between PC & PS3 versions of MW2 or MMO's like FF14.
It would be interesting if Sony expands it to a more Apple iDrive-esque route where you can save GBs of storage space for thing beyond gaming. Maybe allowing you to stream movies, pictures, music via browser you have stored on your online storage space, etc. Or maybe they allow digitally-distributed game rental service.
But whatever these 'premium' services are they better not be at the cost of core services. It would be a mistake to charge for basic online gameplay and delay demos like XBL Gold service does.
They need to add value, not remove value from their core customers...
"But it's unlikely that Sony will charge for the services they give away now, such as the ability to play for free online."
I'm not sure but is it legal for them to charge for the services they currently provide free? They advertise FREE PSN as a feature when you purchase the product (PS3). If they change the terms while you own the product you should have some sort of recourse to get your money back or be subsequently compensated.
@N@tedog: Yes they can, read the Terms of Service, they can do whatever they like really with the PSN and PS3. You technically don't own your PS3 system software or games even. You bought the right to play them with the condition you follow the TOS. This is the reason the 360 was able to lock hard drives and lock Live Accounts.
The short answer should be that Sony can change the service to a paid for deal without any problems as they are giving you notice of the change.
Your suggestion creates a few questions which do not seem to have been thought through. For example, what would be fair compensation? How could you determine the fair term of time that should be compensated for? What is the injury if no costs have been charged without the owners permission? What would be a fair compensation for those people who have enjoyed the free service as promised? Also, if you purchased the console and received the promised service for free and it was later changed, could you actually represent that you did not receive the free service?
In my opinion, a service provider should have more leeway to alter the terms of an agreement because the duration of the interaction period is longer (as opposed to buying a product which is a single instant sorta thing). Because more leeway appears due, I would presume that a basic position is that the fair thing would be to allow service providers to alter terms of service as necessary to continue to provide their service... unless the consumer is bound to continue using that service, at which point it would swing the other way.
To truly answer your question it is much more complicated than is appropriate for this forum. It sounds like you are combining a suggestion for a breach of contract with a false advertising claim. To evaluate these claims, it would be necessary to determine all sorts of facts and other matters. Ultimately though it is probably moot because, the agreement might, AND PROBABLY DOES, expressly provide for a change of terms at any time, with notice, making it totally appropriate for them to make such changes. This sort of language would be expected with a service like PSN because operating costs may change and financial situations might affect the parties (the consumer and Sony) in a way that would require an alternate business model.
This is only my opinion and not legal advice, as I am not an attorney, but only a humble law student and not capable of any representations as such.
@Ferrum.mihi: Okay. I understand what you're saying. Would it fall within the lines of a TOS revision from a telecom company though? Don't I have a certain number of days to cancel any contract with my service provider after they change the TOS? I feel there would be a similar circumstance in this case or am I way off?
I'm just thinking of an extreme case where I may purchase a device with free services that a short time later I am then charged for after a TOS revision. I imagine there would have to be some sort of consumer protection from that.
@N@tedog: Under your hypothetical, where Sony charges you retroactively for a service that you have already used under the impression that it was free (because it is currently advertised as free), I would assume that in that case it would be possible to make the cancellation or something similar to what you are suggesting.. **BUT**, that is a *very* unlikely scenario.
Retroactive charges are unlikely because it would create exactly the situation you are suggesting (and Sony would likely want to avoid that situation), it would create HORRIBLE ill will towards Sony most likely, AND, in my experience, Sony has a very clear way of changing the Terms of Service.
The first assumption I would make is that Sony will adopt a model of payment similar to Xbox Live Gold Accounts. This model has users pay in advance of service for a set rate that provides access to the service for a certain number of months, or, alternatively, pay prior to receiving service each month. It would not be retroactive charges if Sony sends you a bill for the Next months services. There, they are making the presumption that you want to continue service and so are sending you a bill to enable that, however, because they have not provided the services yet, you should be free *not* to engage such services by notifying them you are uninterested (or presumably by not using the services at all). Ultimately, retroactive charges would be the sort of fiasco that Sony should easily side step and is a very unlikely situation.
This is only my opinion and not legal advice, as I am not an attorney, but only a humble law student and not capable of any representations as such.
There is absolutly no moderation in some games. I was playing CoD4 at a friend's place (on PSN). First of all half of teh people didn't have mics when they did it was shitty bluetooth with ridiculous amount of noise and static. Clan names that has words such as f** and nigr.
@Gundem: My roommates clan tag on live is COK. You can't blame Sony for users not having mics or using inappropriate clan tags. Do you seriously expect Sony to manage the quality of everyone's mic? Because if you do, that's bull.
Microsoft does it, why can't Sony? I mean sony had the meanest censorship when PS2 online was abrely launched. I remember playing tiwsted metal black and there was no chat feature. however after entering some codes you'd get this basic on screen qwerty sort of chat. You couldn't even say "Hard one".
I, like others, don't think they're going to start charging for anything we've been getting free for now.
As far as early demo access and paid goodies for free, they do that already with Qore (Which runs on a subscription BTW so that system has been in place a while for FXIV).
Hopefully this will just be some subscriptions for things like comics, movies and paid themes(I wonder how well those are selling).
All my friends are on XBL so that's where I hang out. I don't see this changing anything for the most part. Game rentals would be pretty cool but if you have to download a 30GB game to rent it that could take a while even on my 20Mbs Fios.
Perhaps this means for folks to have the Netflix software downloaded on their PS3 that they will have to pay for the Premium PSN, much like Microsoft does for Xbox owners. Suddenly that Netflix disc is sounding like a pretty good deal.
Jokes aside, it will be interesting to see how Sony differentiates this.
11/30/09
That was my first thought.
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
Don't sony lose money on the consoles and make it back on the games anyway?
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
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11/29/09
I deserve the backhanding I suppose though. So go for it. :'(
(For the record though, you are pretty. I say that in the most non creepy way possible :P)
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/29/09
i was thinking the same thing
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
11/29/09
[kotaku.com]
[www.army.mil]
11/30/09
Just cause I am a mechanic and sit 700 miles from the lines doesn't mean we don't have guys running convoys through the heart of Baghdad.
I am just yanking your chain. But we do have quite a few guys that see combat. Think of Tyrese in Transformers. Him calling in air strikes. AF really has those guys attached to Army units.
11/24/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
It would be interesting if Sony expands it to a more Apple iDrive-esque route where you can save GBs of storage space for thing beyond gaming. Maybe allowing you to stream movies, pictures, music via browser you have stored on your online storage space, etc. Or maybe they allow digitally-distributed game rental service.
But whatever these 'premium' services are they better not be at the cost of core services. It would be a mistake to charge for basic online gameplay and delay demos like XBL Gold service does.
They need to add value, not remove value from their core customers...
11/23/09
They're not being very subtle about this, are they?
11/23/09
I'm not sure but is it legal for them to charge for the services they currently provide free? They advertise FREE PSN as a feature when you purchase the product (PS3). If they change the terms while you own the product you should have some sort of recourse to get your money back or be subsequently compensated.
Any lawyers out there?
11/23/09
The article mentions that everything that is free now will stay free.
Xbox also says free live. Fine print however mentions free silver live.
11/23/09
11/23/09
The short answer should be that Sony can change the service to a paid for deal without any problems as they are giving you notice of the change.
Your suggestion creates a few questions which do not seem to have been thought through. For example, what would be fair compensation? How could you determine the fair term of time that should be compensated for? What is the injury if no costs have been charged without the owners permission? What would be a fair compensation for those people who have enjoyed the free service as promised? Also, if you purchased the console and received the promised service for free and it was later changed, could you actually represent that you did not receive the free service?
In my opinion, a service provider should have more leeway to alter the terms of an agreement because the duration of the interaction period is longer (as opposed to buying a product which is a single instant sorta thing). Because more leeway appears due, I would presume that a basic position is that the fair thing would be to allow service providers to alter terms of service as necessary to continue to provide their service... unless the consumer is bound to continue using that service, at which point it would swing the other way.
To truly answer your question it is much more complicated than is appropriate for this forum. It sounds like you are combining a suggestion for a breach of contract with a false advertising claim. To evaluate these claims, it would be necessary to determine all sorts of facts and other matters. Ultimately though it is probably moot because, the agreement might, AND PROBABLY DOES, expressly provide for a change of terms at any time, with notice, making it totally appropriate for them to make such changes. This sort of language would be expected with a service like PSN because operating costs may change and financial situations might affect the parties (the consumer and Sony) in a way that would require an alternate business model.
This is only my opinion and not legal advice, as I am not an attorney, but only a humble law student and not capable of any representations as such.
11/23/09
I'm just thinking of an extreme case where I may purchase a device with free services that a short time later I am then charged for after a TOS revision. I imagine there would have to be some sort of consumer protection from that.
11/26/09
Retroactive charges are unlikely because it would create exactly the situation you are suggesting (and Sony would likely want to avoid that situation), it would create HORRIBLE ill will towards Sony most likely, AND, in my experience, Sony has a very clear way of changing the Terms of Service.
The first assumption I would make is that Sony will adopt a model of payment similar to Xbox Live Gold Accounts. This model has users pay in advance of service for a set rate that provides access to the service for a certain number of months, or, alternatively, pay prior to receiving service each month. It would not be retroactive charges if Sony sends you a bill for the Next months services. There, they are making the presumption that you want to continue service and so are sending you a bill to enable that, however, because they have not provided the services yet, you should be free *not* to engage such services by notifying them you are uninterested (or presumably by not using the services at all). Ultimately, retroactive charges would be the sort of fiasco that Sony should easily side step and is a very unlikely situation.
This is only my opinion and not legal advice, as I am not an attorney, but only a humble law student and not capable of any representations as such.
11/23/09
Do they always have to go fuck up a good thing?
11/23/09
11/23/09
There is absolutly no moderation in some games. I was playing CoD4 at a friend's place (on PSN). First of all half of teh people didn't have mics when they did it was shitty bluetooth with ridiculous amount of noise and static. Clan names that has words such as f** and nigr.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
Microsoft does it, why can't Sony? I mean sony had the meanest censorship when PS2 online was abrely launched. I remember playing tiwsted metal black and there was no chat feature. however after entering some codes you'd get this basic on screen qwerty sort of chat. You couldn't even say "Hard one".
11/23/09
As far as early demo access and paid goodies for free, they do that already with Qore (Which runs on a subscription BTW so that system has been in place a while for FXIV).
Hopefully this will just be some subscriptions for things like comics, movies and paid themes(I wonder how well those are selling).
11/23/09
11/23/09
Jokes aside, it will be interesting to see how Sony differentiates this.