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New York, 10:41 AM
Tue Dec 1
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!! SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!!
    11/24/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    It was just a matter of time. With the PS3 price drop, this was kind of predictable.
     Reply
    SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!! was starred SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!! was unstarred
    Image of VenomIreland VenomIreland
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    Guys: "Hirai issued a subsequent statement indicating the present level of service would remain gratis. "
     Reply
    VenomIreland was starred VenomIreland was unstarred
    Image of Scaramanga Scaramanga
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    I'm suspecting they will add services like Steam's Cloud. Where you can save and sync your save files & configurations online and sync them between different devices. For instance, being able to quickly switch between PC & PS3 versions of MW2 or MMO's like FF14.

    It would be interesting if Sony expands it to a more Apple iDrive-esque route where you can save GBs of storage space for thing beyond gaming. Maybe allowing you to stream movies, pictures, music via browser you have stored on your online storage space, etc. Or maybe they allow digitally-distributed game rental service.

    But whatever these 'premium' services are they better not be at the cost of core services. It would be a mistake to charge for basic online gameplay and delay demos like XBL Gold service does.

    They need to add value, not remove value from their core customers...
     Reply
    Scaramanga was starred Scaramanga was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    Wow. "Rich lineup of content".

    They're not being very subtle about this, are they?
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of N@tedog N@tedog
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    "But it's unlikely that Sony will charge for the services they give away now, such as the ability to play for free online."

    I'm not sure but is it legal for them to charge for the services they currently provide free? They advertise FREE PSN as a feature when you purchase the product (PS3). If they change the terms while you own the product you should have some sort of recourse to get your money back or be subsequently compensated.

    Any lawyers out there?
     Reply
    Edited by N@tedog at 11/23/09 2:21 PM N@tedog was starred N@tedog was unstarred
    Image of Gundem Gundem
    11/23/09

    @N@tedog: Here is the thing:

    The article mentions that everything that is free now will stay free.

    Xbox also says free live. Fine print however mentions free silver live.
     Reply
    Gundem was starred Gundem was unstarred
    Image of Jacob Sheppard Jacob Sheppard
    11/23/09

    @N@tedog: Yes they can, read the Terms of Service, they can do whatever they like really with the PSN and PS3. You technically don't own your PS3 system software or games even. You bought the right to play them with the condition you follow the TOS. This is the reason the 360 was able to lock hard drives and lock Live Accounts.
     Reply
    Jacob Sheppard approved this comment Jacob Sheppard was starred Jacob Sheppard was unstarred
    Image of Ferrum.mihi Ferrum.mihi
    11/23/09

    @N@tedog: So...

    The short answer should be that Sony can change the service to a paid for deal without any problems as they are giving you notice of the change.

    Your suggestion creates a few questions which do not seem to have been thought through. For example, what would be fair compensation? How could you determine the fair term of time that should be compensated for? What is the injury if no costs have been charged without the owners permission? What would be a fair compensation for those people who have enjoyed the free service as promised? Also, if you purchased the console and received the promised service for free and it was later changed, could you actually represent that you did not receive the free service?

    In my opinion, a service provider should have more leeway to alter the terms of an agreement because the duration of the interaction period is longer (as opposed to buying a product which is a single instant sorta thing). Because more leeway appears due, I would presume that a basic position is that the fair thing would be to allow service providers to alter terms of service as necessary to continue to provide their service... unless the consumer is bound to continue using that service, at which point it would swing the other way.

    To truly answer your question it is much more complicated than is appropriate for this forum. It sounds like you are combining a suggestion for a breach of contract with a false advertising claim. To evaluate these claims, it would be necessary to determine all sorts of facts and other matters. Ultimately though it is probably moot because, the agreement might, AND PROBABLY DOES, expressly provide for a change of terms at any time, with notice, making it totally appropriate for them to make such changes. This sort of language would be expected with a service like PSN because operating costs may change and financial situations might affect the parties (the consumer and Sony) in a way that would require an alternate business model.

    This is only my opinion and not legal advice, as I am not an attorney, but only a humble law student and not capable of any representations as such.
     Reply
    N@tedog approved this comment Ferrum.mihi was starred Ferrum.mihi was unstarred
    Image of N@tedog N@tedog
    11/23/09

    @Ferrum.mihi: Okay. I understand what you're saying. Would it fall within the lines of a TOS revision from a telecom company though? Don't I have a certain number of days to cancel any contract with my service provider after they change the TOS? I feel there would be a similar circumstance in this case or am I way off?

    I'm just thinking of an extreme case where I may purchase a device with free services that a short time later I am then charged for after a TOS revision. I imagine there would have to be some sort of consumer protection from that.
     Reply
    N@tedog was starred N@tedog was unstarred
    Image of Ferrum.mihi Ferrum.mihi
    11/26/09

    @N@tedog: Under your hypothetical, where Sony charges you retroactively for a service that you have already used under the impression that it was free (because it is currently advertised as free), I would assume that in that case it would be possible to make the cancellation or something similar to what you are suggesting.. **BUT**, that is a *very* unlikely scenario.

    Retroactive charges are unlikely because it would create exactly the situation you are suggesting (and Sony would likely want to avoid that situation), it would create HORRIBLE ill will towards Sony most likely, AND, in my experience, Sony has a very clear way of changing the Terms of Service.

    The first assumption I would make is that Sony will adopt a model of payment similar to Xbox Live Gold Accounts. This model has users pay in advance of service for a set rate that provides access to the service for a certain number of months, or, alternatively, pay prior to receiving service each month. It would not be retroactive charges if Sony sends you a bill for the Next months services. There, they are making the presumption that you want to continue service and so are sending you a bill to enable that, however, because they have not provided the services yet, you should be free *not* to engage such services by notifying them you are uninterested (or presumably by not using the services at all). Ultimately, retroactive charges would be the sort of fiasco that Sony should easily side step and is a very unlikely situation.

    This is only my opinion and not legal advice, as I am not an attorney, but only a humble law student and not capable of any representations as such.
     Reply
    Ferrum.mihi was starred Ferrum.mihi was unstarred
    Image of Noobs-R-Us Noobs-R-Us
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    Everytime you think Sony's finally got it right, they go and screw the pooch. Is there anything they can get right and keep it that way?

    Do they always have to go fuck up a good thing?
     Reply
    Noobs-R-Us was starred Noobs-R-Us was unstarred
    Image of BlueBeard BlueBeard
    11/23/09

    @Noobs-R-Us: I'm a cheap bastard, but paying for Xbox live got easier once I used the playstation network a few times at friends' houses. PSN sucks.
     Reply
    Gundem promoted this comment BlueBeard was starred BlueBeard was unstarred
    Image of Gundem Gundem
    11/23/09

    @BlueBeard: Tell me about it.

    There is absolutly no moderation in some games. I was playing CoD4 at a friend's place (on PSN). First of all half of teh people didn't have mics when they did it was shitty bluetooth with ridiculous amount of noise and static. Clan names that has words such as f** and nigr.
     Reply
    Gundem was starred Gundem was unstarred
    Image of tazfan5040 tazfan5040
    11/23/09

    @Gundem: My roommates clan tag on live is COK. You can't blame Sony for users not having mics or using inappropriate clan tags. Do you seriously expect Sony to manage the quality of everyone's mic? Because if you do, that's bull.
     Reply
    Gundem promoted this comment tazfan5040 was starred tazfan5040 was unstarred
    Image of lotussix001 lotussix001
    11/23/09

    @Gundem: don't really mean to spam, but a cd was released addressing the issue of online gaming and racism. download it for free @ www.mcbobbyk.com
     Reply
    Gundem approved this comment lotussix001 was starred lotussix001 was unstarred
    Image of Gundem Gundem
    11/23/09

    @lotussix001: lol what? I'm at work. Give me a brief description.
     Reply
    Gundem was starred Gundem was unstarred
    Image of Gundem Gundem
    11/23/09

    @tazfan5040:

    Microsoft does it, why can't Sony? I mean sony had the meanest censorship when PS2 online was abrely launched. I remember playing tiwsted metal black and there was no chat feature. however after entering some codes you'd get this basic on screen qwerty sort of chat. You couldn't even say "Hard one".
     Reply
    Gundem was starred Gundem was unstarred
    Image of RoboBagins RoboBagins
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    I, like others, don't think they're going to start charging for anything we've been getting free for now.

    As far as early demo access and paid goodies for free, they do that already with Qore (Which runs on a subscription BTW so that system has been in place a while for FXIV).

    Hopefully this will just be some subscriptions for things like comics, movies and paid themes(I wonder how well those are selling).
     Reply
    RoboBagins was starred RoboBagins was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    All my friends are on XBL so that's where I hang out. I don't see this changing anything for the most part. Game rentals would be pretty cool but if you have to download a 30GB game to rent it that could take a while even on my 20Mbs Fios.
     Reply
    yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    Perhaps this means for folks to have the Netflix software downloaded on their PS3 that they will have to pay for the Premium PSN, much like Microsoft does for Xbox owners. Suddenly that Netflix disc is sounding like a pretty good deal.

    Jokes aside, it will be interesting to see how Sony differentiates this.
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of cheese1756 cheese1756
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    If it is all-you-can eat subscription based games/movies, I'm in.
     Reply
    RoboBagins promoted this comment cheese1756 was starred cheese1756 was unstarred
    Image of jmsaucedo1990 jmsaucedo1990
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    I don't think that they will charge for the services they offer now. I think that they will charge for something that will give people early demos, free themes etc...
     Reply
    RoboBagins approved this comment jmsaucedo1990 was starred jmsaucedo1990 was unstarred
    Image of RoboBagins RoboBagins
    11/23/09

    @jmsaucedo1990: They already do that. It's called Qore.
     Reply
    RoboBagins was starred RoboBagins was unstarred
    Image of Xagest Xagest
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    Man, do I feel like an idiot hoping that XBox Live Gold would become a free service to compete with PSN...
     Reply
    Xagest was starred Xagest was unstarred
    Image of Chronocidal Guy Chronocidal Guy
    11/23/09

    @Xagest: As much as I'd like to be able to play online with friends, I refuse to pay microsoft so I can use an internet connection I already pay for.

    *goes back to PC*
     Reply
    Chronocidal Guy was starred Chronocidal Guy was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/23/09

    @Xagest: Sob. I know the feeling.
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of SteveDaveMcQueen SteveDaveMcQueen
    11/23/09

    @Chronocidal Guy: You're paying to play the games from their console on the internet, not for another internet connection, dufus. If $5 a month is too much for you, then maybe you should use your video game buying money for food instead.
     Reply
    Xagest approved this comment SteveDaveMcQueen was starred SteveDaveMcQueen was unstarred
    Image of Xagest Xagest
    11/23/09

    @SteveDaveMcQueen:
    It's still incredibly hard to justify when you can play the same game on a PC without the extra charge...
     Reply
    Xagest was starred Xagest was unstarred
    Image of SteveDaveMcQueen SteveDaveMcQueen
    11/23/09

    @Xagest: I get what you're saying, but I find it incredibly hard to justify you finding it very hard to justify less than 17 cents per day for XBL. It's really not that big a deal. I'm not trying to patronize either. I do get what you're saying, but if you break it down it's not costing anybody a lot of money. One time, I was pissed because my Xbox died on me and I was talking to a CSR who didn't know S. I was in evil consumer mode and was about to tell the dude that I needed to get my money back for the days I wasn't going to be able to play with my XBL subscription, but then I realized it would have been a miniscule amount; really not worth making a big deal about.

    It is making Microsoft a shit-ton of money though.

    #tips
     Reply
    SteveDaveMcQueen was starred SteveDaveMcQueen was unstarred
    Image of GHETTO.CHiLD GHETTO.CHiLD
    11/23/09

    In reply to PlayStation 3's PSN Will Get Premium Level Pay Subscription in 2010
    hmmm me thinks they may start making you pay to play online.... think about it, resistance 3 hits and if you pay you get first access to play mp. i wouldn't write that off as a long shot.... im only saying is all.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment GHETTO.CHiLD was starred GHETTO.CHiLD was unstarred
    Image of Cash907Censored Cash907Censored
    11/06/09

    In reply to What Netflix On the PS3 Actually Looks Like
    Slick? Early reports are saying the video only renders at 480p, and generally looks like crap.
    What's so slick about any of that? #netflixps3
     Reply
    Cash907Censored was starred Cash907Censored was unstarred
    Image of katypee001 katypee001
    11/06/09

    @Cash907Censored: wrong wrong and wrong, it displays HD content much better than my xbox or roku, in fact i might actually get rid of the xbox now...
     Reply
    Cash907Censored promoted this comment katypee001 was starred katypee001 was unstarred
    Image of Cash907Censored Cash907Censored
    11/07/09

    @katypee001:
    Five bucks says you don't own an xbox anyway, so getting rid of it is pretty simple huh? #netflixps3
     Reply
    Cash907Censored was starred Cash907Censored was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    11/06/09

    In reply to What Netflix On the PS3 Actually Looks Like
    It is exciting this is finally out, but what I am curious about is why it took so long? Clearly this was not a rocket-science situation, both platforms should have had Netflix ages before it was released. So, what happened? Was it to get Microsoft to pay for the exclusivity of forcing PS3 owners to put a disc in the drive? (Wow, that was worth the price, Ballmer - putting discs in drives is almost as exhausting as shaking a fruit juice bottle.) Does Netflix just not have coders available? Or maybe Sony is paying for this program somehow?

    Sorry, just my usual Friday afternoon round of confusion. #netflixps3
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of irfan irfan
    11/06/09

    @Monty: microsoft was the exclusive console provider for a year, that was probably part of the deal. Open season now #netflixps3
     Reply
    Monty promoted this comment irfan was starred irfan was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    11/06/09

    @irfan: Oh, open season is great - I would love a version of Netflix streaming for my Amiga 3000. 4096 colors is cutting edge technology and I so miss the Guru Meditation errors.

    Uh oh, I am showing my age again. I'll shut up now. #netflixps3
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
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