I would pay $150 for it. I don't know if I would pay any more than that though.
I would like to see a similar thing to the wii head tracking. (video hopefully attached). Some people have been calling Natal out as not being useful for "real" games, but if I could use it to simulate a 3d environment while still using an actual controller in, say, an FPS, I would be very :D
The 32X was not exactly the same sort of thing - project natal has the possibility of being truly ground shaking, where the 32X was doomed from the start: it was pricey, had limited software titles available, and was tacking on to a unit that already had its big add-on (Sega CD, as you may recall).
The problem there was that sega was trying to milk its current gen hardware for all it was worth by adding on. Project Natal, from what I've seen, is truly more of a revolution rather than evolution (to quote apple). If supported with the right software titles, this thing could really be badass.
@Mitch: Sega Genesis: Most popular gaming platform of the time.
Xbox 360: Most popular gaming platform of the time.
Sega Genesis: New market innovation of CD's and 32 bit processors coming from competitor, so creates add-on to make their product even better.
Xbox 360: Motion sensitivity innovation very popular with competitor, so creates add-on to make their product even better.
Sega Genesis: Add-on confuses the market, games slow to be released or seen, so the product collapses.
Xbox 360: Add-on is not yet released, but we have yet to see a specific game for it. Jury is still out.
I am not saying it will collapse, but there is a reason for the comparison. I think the primary difference is that Sega killed themselves by having two add-on devices (Sega CD and 32X), but even without the Sega CD it would never have been a success. Since there is nothing officially out (including the device) for Natal it is too early to say how it will do, but the comparison makes sense. I do hope Microsoft is more successful even if game console add-on's from all companies have not done well in the past.
@Monty: Except that no, the SNES ultimately beat out the Genesis in popularity in the 16-bit generation. The Genesis was popular for like the first year, since it had a head start on Nintendo.
@Elranzer: Understood - and the Wii has sold many more consoles than the Xbox 360, so both were the number two console of their time. So, the comparison is, unfortunately for Microsoft, still completely valid.
I don't think $150 is that high. Think about the hardware inside. There are two types of cameras, one for visible light and one for IR. Probably a cluster of high output IR LEDs to light the room in low light conditions. Definitely a dedicated processor to do some pre-processing. Then the regular array of interface hardware, like you'd find in a controller.
I'll bet that out of the gate Microsoft's the bill of materials cost is somewhere around $80-90 at least.
@Navin R Johnson: I could be wrong as I haven't done any research, nor do I have any technical knowledge when it comes to things like this, but...
In the MS promotional video, the Natal is always on. Obviously, we'll have the ability to turn it off and if we do, lose the cool feature of the 360 recognizing us when we walk into a room.
For those of us with a Wii60 in the house and with Natal on, when I'm playing Wii, will Natal's IR throw off the Wii controllers?
Guitar Hero, Rock Band, DJ Hero, Tony Hawk: Ride... now imagine you bought a single peripheral that functioned for an entire library of future games rather than one limited to a single genre or franchise.
@Heliophage: Now imagine that it is not tactile, and therefor not as responsive. Broad movements will never replace a controller.
Motion based controls will always be simplified compared to keyed inputs.
I'll take my $100 guitar any day over wiggling my fingers in the air and watching half the notes go by missed (there is no way that camera system would be able to catch the flurry of notes played on a expert song).
I never implied that it would be applicable to every genre, nor did I imply that it should replace more traditional means of input, only supplement them.
@Heliophage: I'm all for options, i have just never seen motion based controls that actually did what i wanted them to. Typically I end up fighting the camera. Some people may have bought into this hook-line-and-sinker from watching the demos, but until I have seen it for myself in typical environment with typical lighting, I don't really pout much stock into it.
Secondly, until it is for doing more then chatting or trying on avatar clothes - ie: some games come out that actually make interesting use of it, then it is just a gimmick like the wii-mote. The Wii may have some great games, but to me, none of them would have been impossible using a regular non-motion based controller.
I hate to be a naysayer, but....NAY!! Console peripherals, since the beginning of consoles, have only had a 10% market penetration rate. So assuming that will be true with Natal, you'll get a sales figure of around I believe 2 million units (I believe 360 has moved 20 million units, if I'm wrong, you can adjust the numbers accordingly). So now software manufacturers will have to decide if they are going to make Natal-Only games, or incorporate Natal into controller based games. If they are Natal only, the sales figures are going to suck. Like really suck, since it'll be selling for an installed base of just over 7 figures. Which will deter software development, which will deter quality games, blah blah blah. Chicken/Egg scenario. If Microsoft starts bundling Natal with the 360, the price point is going to shoot right back up again. I see Natal being a niche product, with Xbox Live-type games being the focus. I can't see entire disc-based games revolving around Natal when they won't get squat for market penetration. If I wanted to wave my arms around while playing a video game, I'd get a Wii. Unless they put a killer-app out as Natal only, i.e. Halo Reach or COD 6, I'll be quite content with my 360 controller.
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Edited by Jack of all Tirades R.O.A.C.H. at 10/06/09 1:31 PM
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Priced like a console? I don't think 150$ quite accumulates to that. Even if it is your guess. Maybe it will be expensive but hey, what isn't this generation? (besides the wii)
@nerve11: I'm thinking what he means (that really isn't all that clear) is that they will use the same process to determine the price as they do a console. Instead of, say, a Wii controller that will likely cost $40 over the course of its relevant life.
Basically, it's the least helpful answer they could possibly give short of "It will have a price."
It seems to have stuck so far, but may get changed regardless. Like Revolution - Wii, it'll meet heavy resistance at first, and then be all but forgotten shortly down the line.
The price will depend heavily on what comes with it. As outdriver mentioned, if it is as revolutionary as they claim it will be, $150 isn't that bad. But they need a good launch selection to make sure that it sells.
The 32X, to my memory, did pretty poorly and Sega ended up making more Megadrive/Genesis games after it was released. Or was that the SegaCD? Or was it both? I forget.
@iamnotafish: I remember selling the 32X at Software Etc way back in the day. They had, essentially, four platforms going simultaneously: Sega Genesis, Sega CD, Sega 32X, and Sega CD 32X. The market was so confused that the platform collapsed before it was ever released, and it ultimately killed the Saturn, too.
The comparison could be all too accurate since the game console add-on concept has never worked out well for any company, even if Sega wins the prize. Hopefully Microsoft will have better luck and create a compelling reason to make the investment.
Of course it's "free". It's stealing biometric data from you to allow the Government, whom Microsoft is part of, to merge this data with the data it gathers from Airport Scanners and High Altitude Surveillance Blimps over every city. This way they can frame you for crimes and send guided missiles/terminator drones to your front door to kill you for your dissidence!
(And yes, people actually believe this and have talk shows on the radio saying this!)
@jkid35:
They aren't adding natal to any old games. I don't believe we have seen anything that is an actual game for Natal yet.
The games they showed, the old ones, with natal integrated were just demonstrations.
@logicalnoise: He was drooling over the possibilities of future technology along this idea. And none of that has shown us a single game for the thing yet.
@krispykrink: I think the "today" and "tomorrow" references are a bit abstract... we obviously are not getting Natal tomorrow.
How would this be enforced? Would it be a mystery chip on the MB? What about sending the unit back and getting a refurb? What about old stock on shelves???!?!? Too many variables - I am interpreting this as current Xbox 360's (maybe HDMI or Falcon).
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I'm wondering more "when" than "how much".
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I would like to see a similar thing to the wii head tracking. (video hopefully attached). Some people have been calling Natal out as not being useful for "real" games, but if I could use it to simulate a 3d environment while still using an actual controller in, say, an FPS, I would be very :D
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The problem there was that sega was trying to milk its current gen hardware for all it was worth by adding on. Project Natal, from what I've seen, is truly more of a revolution rather than evolution (to quote apple). If supported with the right software titles, this thing could really be badass.
10/06/09
Xbox 360: Most popular gaming platform of the time.
Sega Genesis: New market innovation of CD's and 32 bit processors coming from competitor, so creates add-on to make their product even better.
Xbox 360: Motion sensitivity innovation very popular with competitor, so creates add-on to make their product even better.
Sega Genesis: Add-on confuses the market, games slow to be released or seen, so the product collapses.
Xbox 360: Add-on is not yet released, but we have yet to see a specific game for it. Jury is still out.
I am not saying it will collapse, but there is a reason for the comparison. I think the primary difference is that Sega killed themselves by having two add-on devices (Sega CD and 32X), but even without the Sega CD it would never have been a success. Since there is nothing officially out (including the device) for Natal it is too early to say how it will do, but the comparison makes sense. I do hope Microsoft is more successful even if game console add-on's from all companies have not done well in the past.
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I'll bet that out of the gate Microsoft's the bill of materials cost is somewhere around $80-90 at least.
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In the MS promotional video, the Natal is always on. Obviously, we'll have the ability to turn it off and if we do, lose the cool feature of the 360 recognizing us when we walk into a room.
For those of us with a Wii60 in the house and with Natal on, when I'm playing Wii, will Natal's IR throw off the Wii controllers?
OMG... will it know I'm playing with my Wii?!
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When you consider how all Xbox 360 accessories are priced, it's something we've come to expect.
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*cough* guitar hero *cough* *cough*
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Guitar Hero, Rock Band, DJ Hero, Tony Hawk: Ride... now imagine you bought a single peripheral that functioned for an entire library of future games rather than one limited to a single genre or franchise.
I honestly don't see the problem.
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Motion based controls will always be simplified compared to keyed inputs.
I'll take my $100 guitar any day over wiggling my fingers in the air and watching half the notes go by missed (there is no way that camera system would be able to catch the flurry of notes played on a expert song).
10/06/09
I never implied that it would be applicable to every genre, nor did I imply that it should replace more traditional means of input, only supplement them.
Or is it bad to have more options?
10/07/09
Secondly, until it is for doing more then chatting or trying on avatar clothes - ie: some games come out that actually make interesting use of it, then it is just a gimmick like the wii-mote. The Wii may have some great games, but to me, none of them would have been impossible using a regular non-motion based controller.
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Basically, it's the least helpful answer they could possibly give short of "It will have a price."
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Btw you think "natal" is gonna stick or is it just a code name and will be changed?
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It seems to have stuck so far, but may get changed regardless. Like Revolution - Wii, it'll meet heavy resistance at first, and then be all but forgotten shortly down the line.
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The 32X, to my memory, did pretty poorly and Sega ended up making more Megadrive/Genesis games after it was released. Or was that the SegaCD? Or was it both? I forget.
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The comparison could be all too accurate since the game console add-on concept has never worked out well for any company, even if Sega wins the prize. Hopefully Microsoft will have better luck and create a compelling reason to make the investment.
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(And yes, people actually believe this and have talk shows on the radio saying this!)
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Actually, ~$150 is a very common estimate for Natal, and microsoft has spoken on it being treated like a new console multiple times.
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By the way, this is like Price Is Right. It's the closest without going over.
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They aren't adding natal to any old games. I don't believe we have seen anything that is an actual game for Natal yet.
The games they showed, the old ones, with natal integrated were just demonstrations.
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Thanks for the shit sandwich MS.
09/22/09
How would this be enforced? Would it be a mystery chip on the MB? What about sending the unit back and getting a refurb? What about old stock on shelves???!?!? Too many variables - I am interpreting this as current Xbox 360's (maybe HDMI or Falcon).