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Sun Dec 6
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Mikestan Mikestan
    12/01/09

    In reply to Psystar and Apple Reach Partial Settlement
    The partial settlement agreed upon is really just Apple's promise not to take the souls of the owner's of Psystar along with everything else they may own.
     Reply
    Mikestan was starred Mikestan was unstarred
    Image of Die Fledermaus Die Fledermaus
    11/30/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    So what you are saying is Psystar is a few zeros short of fulfilled sale estimate.
     Reply
    Die Fledermaus was starred Die Fledermaus was unstarred
    Image of dolo54 blows minds and blows engines! dolo54 blows minds and blows engines!
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    there was a time when you bought something you owned it. as in "I bought the software, I bought the hardware, I can do whatever I want with it." which would include paying someone to install the software you bought on the hardware you bought. is apple right in saying you can't buy their software, only "license" it? is there a real right and wrong in this issue? apple wants you to believe they're right because it's in their best interest. however, in this case, when you BELIEVE someone can sell you a license and what you paid for is not your property, you have given up a right to own you previously had. right?
     Reply
    Edited by dolo54 blows minds and blows engines! at 11/28/09 7:27 PM dolo54 blows minds and blows engines! was starred dolo54 blows minds and blows engines! was unstarred
    Image of PotteryBarnClearanceSale PotteryBarnClearanceSale
    11/28/09

    @dolo54 blows minds and blows engines!:
    Valid point. Not why I hate Pystar. They knowingly rip off consumers. They sell systems they can't hope to support once they fail.
     Reply
    PotteryBarnClearanceSale was starred PotteryBarnClearanceSale was unstarred
    Image of The Lab The Lab
    11/28/09

    @dolo54: If someone invents something, they are granted certain intellectual property rights. If they then choose to sell only a license to use that software, they are well within their rights to do so. So yes, buying intellectual property is often different from buying physical property. However, it is not uncommon for people to buy machines and get a license to use the machine that limits how and when the machine can be used. An operating system is sold in a similar way.
     Reply
    The Lab was starred The Lab was unstarred
    Image of something_unique_and_descriptive something_unique_and_descriptive
    11/28/09

    @dolo54 blows minds and blows engines!: Apple has never sold OSX, they have sold licenses that grant you the privilege of using OSX within certain parameters.

    It's the same on the Microsoft side. You aren't actually buying Windows, you're buying a license to use Windows, again, within certain parameters. The only difference is that the Microsoft License is less restrictive.

    A custom brew of Linux is pretty much the only "mainstream" OS you can actually own, and even then there are conditions of ownership.

    Is it deceptive? No doubt, but that's how the entire software industry works these days (not just OSs) so the government and the courts aren't going to touch it.

    With hardware it's a physical thing, in order to copy it you need to build a whole new one, from scratch. If you want to modify it you have to change the thing you bought, which involves risk because if you screw it up you have to buy a new one. With software, it's data, a couple keystrokes and you have another, for free, that you can give to a friend or modify with impunity. Which is why they don't sell software, they sell software licenses which are "physical".
     Reply
    something_unique_and_descriptive was starred something_unique_and_descriptive was unstarred
    Image of dolo54 blows minds and blows engines! dolo54 blows minds and blows engines!
    11/29/09

    @something_unique_and_descripti...: @koolatron: @Kerfudle:: @The Lab: Legality is decided by society, but laws are bought and sold like commodities. Do you know what a lobbyist does?

    Consider this: you buy 1 copy of an os for your own use on 1 machine. you buy 1 machine. you pay someone to install the software on the 1 machine. that is what psystar does. they are not selling illegal copies of osx. they buy a copy of osx for each customer from apple. then they install it on the computer their customer has purchased. whether it is illegal or not is up to the courts to decide, but legality can also be influenced by everyone.

    I'm not actually saying who is right and who is wrong, or what is legal and what isn't (both being only loosely related). what I'm saying is that me personally, I would rather purchase to own than to license.

    When you allow someone to tell you that you have no rights and you believe them, then you have no rights. Rights don't come for free and no one will give them to you. Rights are what we, collectively, say they are. If you give up so easy you won't have much.
     Reply
    dolo54 blows minds and blows engines! was starred dolo54 blows minds and blows engines! was unstarred
    Image of something_unique_and_descriptive something_unique_and_descriptive
    11/29/09

    @dolo54 blows minds and blows engines!: I fully agree with you, it's bullsh*t, but nobody is going to do anything about it... in no small part because of those lobbyists.

    But Apple doesn't sell a standalone OS license (and hence Pystar can't buy one). What you get when you buy OSX is an upgrade license, meaning in order for you to legally install it you have to have an existing full license to a previous version... and the only way you can get one of those is with a Mac.
     Reply
    something_unique_and_descriptive was starred something_unique_and_descriptive was unstarred
    Image of PotteryBarnClearanceSale PotteryBarnClearanceSale
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    And the 1.45 million wasn't an internal number, it was the number they showed to investors because they are GANGSTAS. Sounds more and more like a russian Mafia operation than a real computer company every day. Everyone who blasted Apple for hurting this poor small company can step up and apologize now. Owners of Pystar computers have a collectors item.
     Reply
    PotteryBarnClearanceSale was starred PotteryBarnClearanceSale was unstarred
    Image of ploopsy ploopsy
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    This makes Apples legal team even more evil than usual. I thought they were suing Psystar for being success full.
     Reply
    ploopsy was starred ploopsy was unstarred
    Image of deliciousburglar deliciousburglar
    11/28/09

    @ploopsy: what?
     Reply
    deliciousburglar was starred deliciousburglar was unstarred
    Image of ploopsy ploopsy
    11/28/09

    @deliciousburglar: they bothered suing a company that only sold 800 units. Hardly a dent in Apples sales.

    Apple could just make a "hi Im a mac. and Im a fake mac" commercial. LOL!
     Reply
    lostarchitect promoted this comment Edited by ploopsy at 11/28/09 5:10 PM ploopsy was starred ploopsy was unstarred
    Image of lostarchitect lostarchitect
    11/28/09

    @ploopsy: It's not about the number of sales, it's about the precedent. If Apple allowed Psystar to go unchallenged, why not everyone else, too? (don't take this for agreement with Apple's policy, I'm just explaining it to you).
     Reply
    lostarchitect was starred lostarchitect was unstarred
    Image of deliciousburglar deliciousburglar
    11/28/09

    @ploopsy: read what lostarchitect said.
     Reply
    deliciousburglar was starred deliciousburglar was unstarred
    Image of quayzar quayzar
    11/28/09

    @ploopsy: So if a company makes a small number of counterfeits it's not illegal.

    I know these aren't exactly counterfeits in physical terms as they don't look like Macs but they are counterfeiting the computer which has happened before. When Franklin was cloning Apple II's Franklin was found guilty of pirating the Apple II ROM. The court then gave Apple the right to hold on to the ROM and choose who it could be licensed to and that case is not but a stones throw from the likes of this one.

    Apple has a bad history with letting things go in court. Lets not forget that the reason Windows is so big now is simply because Apple let Microsoft off the hook, only paying a small settlement, for taking parts of the Lisa OS and use it for Windows. If Apple had pursued that to the full extent the market share for desktop OSes would be very different now. That may have been a bad thing since Apple would have stagnated much more and OS X probably would have been much worse but you know what I bet each Linux distro would be like Mac OS today in terms of market share.

    Rant mode off...
     Reply
    quayzar was starred quayzar was unstarred
    Image of ploopsy ploopsy
    11/28/09

    @lostarchitect:
    @deliciousburglar:
    @quayzar:
    I just dont see Psystar as a big threat since they only sold 800 units.

    Why should Apple be bothered with them if consumers themselves dont even bother with them? lol!

    IMO if I had a multi-billion dollar company I would not see the point in drawing attention to companies that are failures at stealing my customers away. YES I know that Apple has to make examples of someone but why bother with such a pathetic company?

    They should focus more on the companies selling thousands of knock off iphones and ipods.
     Reply
    ploopsy was starred ploopsy was unstarred
    Image of lostarchitect lostarchitect
    11/28/09

    @ploopsy: ...and you totally missed the point of what was said.

    To rephrase, it is not Psystar's size or relevance or threat factor. It's not even about making an example. It is the fact that doing nothing sets a bad legal precedent for Apple. Let's say Apple ignores Psystar, and next year Asus starts to make mac knockoffs (I know, it's not gonna happen, but it's the point of the thing). Asus, being a big company, would have a lot more ability to hurt Apple's bottom line. Do you understand now?
     Reply
    lostarchitect was starred lostarchitect was unstarred
    Image of ploopsy ploopsy
    11/28/09

    @lostarchitect: So if they dont sue small companies then bigger ones will do stuff and get away with it just because apple didnt sue everyone?

    EDIT: I just seems like Apples legal team is a little too fussy. Remember that Australian grocery store that got sued? [gizmodo.com]
     Reply
    Edited by ploopsy at 11/28/09 11:08 PM ploopsy was starred ploopsy was unstarred
    Image of lostarchitect lostarchitect
    11/28/09

    @ploopsy: "would" is not the word. "could" is what you're looking for.
     Reply
    lostarchitect was starred lostarchitect was unstarred
    Image of crimsonfury crimsonfury
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    ugh it pisses me off that the editors here are such apple fanboys/girls that they side with apple and not with the little guy trying to give consumers an alternative to overpriced apple hardware. I bet these same editors spell Microsoft "Micro$oft"
     Reply
    crimsonfury was starred crimsonfury was unstarred
    Image of Louis Wang Louis Wang
    11/28/09

    @crimsonfury: It would help if Psystar weren't self acknowledged criminals.
     Reply
    tamoko promoted this comment Louis Wang was starred Louis Wang was unstarred
    Image of Colin Cassady Colin Cassady
    11/28/09

    @crimsonfury: This has nothing to do with fanboyism and the little guy, being the little guy doesnt give Pystar any right to break the agreement made with Apple when purchasing licenses.

    Pystar is shady and wrong. It doesn't matter how much Apple wants to sell their products for, you'll either pay them and like it or not use Macs at all. Nobody has the right to use OS X, its a privilege, and if you can't attain it the way Apple requires you to then you don't deserve to use it at all.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment Colin Cassady was starred Colin Cassady was unstarred
    Image of tamoko tamoko
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    Crazy... Perhaps, but at least the guys had balls for dreaming big.
     Reply
    tamoko was starred tamoko was unstarred
    Image of Dynosaulo Dynosaulo
    11/28/09

    @tamoko: Maybe.
    But probably those balls were placed where their brains should be.
     Reply
    lostarchitect promoted this comment Dynosaulo was starred Dynosaulo was unstarred
    Image of Yerzriknot Yerzriknot
    11/28/09

    @tamoko: Now Steve Jobs has those balls hanging on his wall as a trophy.
     Reply
    Yerzriknot was starred Yerzriknot was unstarred
    Image of PotteryBarnClearanceSale PotteryBarnClearanceSale
    11/28/09

    @tamoko:
    But they didn't dream big. Before they even got started they had to know it wouldn't work because the first step in an enterprise like this is to talk to lawyers and investment advisors and all of them should have said it was a failed illegal venture. They knew from the beginning it was crap and from there it was a rip off for everyone who bought their computers. Think about support, think about everything that should warn you a purchase from this company was a terrible idea ... They're criminals and that was the way it was from the beginning.
     Reply
    PotteryBarnClearanceSale was starred PotteryBarnClearanceSale was unstarred
    Image of tex210 tex210
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    Only because I don't see anyone else saying it here...
    This was just an investment scam.
     Reply
    PotteryBarnClearanceSale promoted this comment tex210 was starred tex210 was unstarred
    Image of PotteryBarnClearanceSale PotteryBarnClearanceSale
    11/28/09

    @tex210:
    The funniest part from the ComputerWorld source article is that they claim they also make servers and were working on a laptop. With only 800 desktop sales, who the heck bought a server from them?
     Reply
    PotteryBarnClearanceSale was starred PotteryBarnClearanceSale was unstarred
    Image of RainyDayInterns RainyDayInterns
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    We are starting to think this whole Psystar thing is an Apple marketing ploy...
     Reply
    RainyDayInterns was starred RainyDayInterns was unstarred
    Image of Fanwashere Fanwashere
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    I can build a decent Hackintosh for $200ish. They charge how much? Like $500? I think I'll DIY.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment Fanwashere was starred Fanwashere was unstarred
    Image of Dallifornia Dallifornia
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    This is funnier than all of Gizmodo's April Fool's Day posts combined.
     Reply
    Dallifornia was starred Dallifornia was unstarred
    Image of Hearthatvoiceagain Hearthatvoiceagain
    11/28/09

    @Dallifornia: Not difficult
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment Hearthatvoiceagain was starred Hearthatvoiceagain was unstarred
    Image of weatherman weatherman
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    Love the truck analogy - very well put.

    The irony is that they probably could have made a successful company if they had just focused on the software emulation Rebel EFI side of their business... assuming that they weren't violating any GNU licenses on that product as well, which is actually probably a pretty big assumption.
     Reply
    weatherman was starred weatherman was unstarred
    Image of Dizznizzle Dizznizzle
    11/28/09

    @weatherman: Rebel EFI has severe issues with license activation and zero tech support for it - which says to me they're banking on first sales rather than repeat business - read, they don't really care if it works for the people who pay for it.
     Reply
    weatherman promoted this comment Dizznizzle was starred Dizznizzle was unstarred
    Image of weatherman weatherman
    11/28/09

    @Dizznizzle: yeah, I heard that. I didn't mean to imply that they could actually manage a business well, just that they might have been able to create a legitimate business.
     Reply
    weatherman was starred weatherman was unstarred
    Image of BobotheTeddy BobotheTeddy
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    They must have an awesome ad campaign in their drawer.
     Reply
    Twisk promoted this comment BobotheTeddy was starred BobotheTeddy was unstarred
    Image of Twisk Twisk
    11/28/09


    @BobotheTeddy:
     Reply
    Twisk was starred Twisk was unstarred
    Image of BobotheTeddy BobotheTeddy
    11/28/09

    @Twisk: Ok i´m totally buying a Psystar now. …and mysteriously i´m hungry.
     Reply
    BobotheTeddy was starred BobotheTeddy was unstarred
    Image of Homerjay is utterly alone. Homerjay is utterly alone.
    11/28/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Crazy in Every Way
    They would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for that meddling Giz.
     Reply
    Homerjay is utterly alone. was starred Homerjay is utterly alone. was unstarred
    Image of MaaseyRacer MaaseyRacer
    11/15/09

    In reply to Psystar Is Royally Screwed
    At this point I am starting to root for Psystar. Their business practices may not be the most kosher. However, it is impressive to see them take on Apple. #apple
     Reply
    MaaseyRacer was starred MaaseyRacer was unstarred
    Image of Louis Wang Louis Wang
    11/15/09

    @MaaseyRacer: Yeah, root for thieves. Copyright infringement and stealing GPL software makes them seem so impressive. #apple
     Reply
    dingus promoted this comment Louis Wang was starred Louis Wang was unstarred
    Image of MaaseyRacer MaaseyRacer
    11/15/09

    @Louis Wang: If GM stated that their engines could only be put in cars that they sell, and you wanted a 454 or 502 big block in your boat, should you be denied the ability to put that engine in your boat just because GM does not want it there?

    Like I said, I am not impressed with Psystars business practices, but I am impressed that they are taking Apple on.

    Before the Fanboys jump in and call me an Apple Hater, I have personally owned over 15 Macs, 5 ipods, and 2 iPhones Over the course of the last 18 years. I have worked both for an Apple reseller and for Apple.

    I do not own a Hackintosh, but I think the idea is great, and I have played around on one, and it worked impressively well. #apple
     Reply
    MaaseyRacer was starred MaaseyRacer was unstarred
    Image of J France J France
    11/16/09

    @MaaseyRacer: I'll call you someone who doesn't understand licensing agreements, and companies rights to limit them as they see fit.

    We may disagree with their limitations for a bunch of reasons, but it is their product to license however they wish.

    If you don't like it - don't buy it. It's pretty simple. And buying it via a means that Apple (or whatever company) doesn't endorse is criminal.

    If you don't like that then your beef is with the regulatory systems and laws the US has put in place that allow Apple to defend it's property, and the terms on which it is used.
     Reply
    nutbastard promoted this comment Edited by J France at 11/16/09 12:56 AM J France was starred J France was unstarred
    Image of nutbastard nutbastard
    11/16/09

    @J France:

    well... the RIAA says you aren't supposed to be ripping CDs, but does that make it *wrong* to do so? I would argue that EULAs hold very little water and dont really need to be followed. If you sell me something, it's MINE to modify or resell or do with as i please. otherwise the concept of ownership has been completely perverted. If they want to keep a stranglehold on how their software is used, then they ought to call a spade a spade and LEASE the software. But AFAIK the software is not leased, it's sold. #apple
     Reply
    nutbastard was starred nutbastard was unstarred
    Image of J France J France
    11/16/09

    @nutbastard: I agree, and was playing devil's advocate, for the most part.

    But at a certain point one has to accept it is what it is, if you don't like it then you don't have to endorse it with your money.

    As for the CD ripping - there is no explicit license when you purchase a CD. An implied one, yes, but it falls into a grey area that needs external ruling to make it definitive (and that can still then be applied case by case). More so than an EULA that (technically) a user reads and agrees too. #apple
     Reply
    J France was starred J France was unstarred
    Image of Louis Wang Louis Wang
    11/17/09

    @MaaseyRacer: That is so not the point though. Psystar clearly violated the GPL and copyright. #apple
     Reply
    Louis Wang was starred Louis Wang was unstarred
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