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New York, 2:20 PM
Sun Nov 15
16 posts in the last 24 hours

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  • posts about #scam more →

    Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?

    Our FBI Chief Is As Internet Savvy As Your Grandparents

    iTunes Gift Code Hackers Turn Attention to iPhone App Developers

    The Conficker Virus Scams You $50 To Remove It

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    Keep Your Eyes on Your Junk, Gentlemen (and Ladies)
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Xagest Xagest
    11/14/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    Yeah, I've been talking to them, but nothing is budging. Our contract is still stuck for another year, so I doubt AT&T give a crap.

    My sister got an HTC Fuze for the full keyboard and wifi internet access (wifi is freaking everywhere). #datacharges
     Reply
    Xagest was starred Xagest was unstarred
    Image of Fractal the Meek Fractal the Meek
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    Not surprised. I'll put my Sprint fanboy hat on a sec and mention that before I had a data plan my phones simply spat back "You don't has a data plan stoopid!" No charge.

    In related news, I know there was some open forum a few months back discussed on PreCentral. The presenter made some jab at cell providers that have the long menus people have to listen to as possibly just there to drive up minutes. The big four simply grinned at him.

    They do it. We fall for it. #datacharges
     Reply
    Fractal the Meek was starred Fractal the Meek was unstarred
    Image of jmeltzer jmeltzer
    11/13/09

    @Fractal the Meek: This first point could be the reason that Sprint posted major losses in recent quarterly figures.

    At least they are the ethical ones. Except for that whole "long menus eating up minutes" thing... but last I heard some companies were trying to correct that problem. Hopefully. #datacharges
     Reply
    Fractal the Meek promoted this comment jmeltzer was starred jmeltzer was unstarred
    Image of nikko1221 nikko1221
    11/14/09

    @Fractal the Meek: uh, check your agreement, you'll see that the calls to cell provider customer service are free. That's why they were grinning, the complainer was seriously ill advised. And you fell for it. #datacharges
     Reply
    Fractal the Meek promoted this comment nikko1221 was starred nikko1221 was unstarred
    Image of Fractal the Meek Fractal the Meek
    11/14/09

    @nikko1221: The menus you hear when you're leaving someone else a voicemail. Which you pay for. Unless there's a button to skip it or you have free mobile to mobile... #datacharges
     Reply
    Fractal the Meek was starred Fractal the Meek was unstarred
    Image of Xagest Xagest
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    Just got hit with this just month. My sister has an HTC with no data plan, and the Internet Explorer button was pressed while it was in her pocket. Now we have a $12.57 charge on our bill that AT&T refuses to refund.

    My mom tried to block data from her account, which ended up blocking her from receiving picture texts. So now we're stuck with a 12 dollar charge, and a tough decision between allowing this to happen again or blocking a service that we pay for.
     Reply
    Edited by Xagest at 11/13/09 7:04 PM Xagest was starred Xagest was unstarred
    Image of newgalactic newgalactic
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    Of course I've experienced this. And of course Verizon will do nothing to ever change this, it's money in the bank for them.

    The solution is to get a phone without the Carrier designed OS installed. HTC/Apple/RIM/Palm/Google couldn't care less if you incur data charges. So they tend to not create a UI that has you accidentally logging on at least twice a month.

    Point is, you want to avoid conflicts of interest. 1. Don't let your cell carrier design your phones UI. 2. Don't let your media provider build your audio/video hardware.

    ...any others? #datacharges
     Reply
    newgalactic was starred newgalactic was unstarred
    Image of tande04 tande04
    11/13/09

    @newgalactic: Your answer is to get a smartphone then, which is going to almost always have unlimited data since thats the whole point of having one.

    Its nothing about conflict of interests. I still have a extremely hard time believing that VZW or any other carrier is really part of some grand scheme to place buttons so that people are inadvertently charged for stuff. They are about increasing data usage yes. One of the ways that they can do that is to make getting to it more convenient to get there and I see nothing wrong with that. If a consumer is constantly butt dialing their way through the prompts and warnings I'd probably put my phone in a different pocket. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 was starred tande04 was unstarred
    Image of newgalactic newgalactic
    11/13/09

    @tande04: Yeah, the "conflicts-of-interest" point isn't as valid in the case where most of the alternatives involve getting an unlimited data plan. But there has to be some Verizon dumb-phones out there with non-carrier created OS's. Sony-Ericsson? Nokia?

    And it's not so much a "Grand Scheme", as much as it is an inflated perception of how often people use VCast/VZWeb in comparison to their phone's address book and voicemail.
     Reply
    Edited by newgalactic at 11/13/09 7:19 PM newgalactic was starred newgalactic was unstarred
    Image of tande04 tande04
    11/13/09

    @newgalactic: Nokia maybe (there are no SE VZW phones) but I'm 95% sure that even the nokia is just a skin with some extra features and still has all of the normal VZW acquirements.

    I don't think that VZW things people use those more (address book is a dedicated key after all on most phones) but they do have a vested interest in making it easy for people to use. No one is going to jump through six menus to get to web or get it now. They'd probably forget why they wanted to go there by the time they got there. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 was starred tande04 was unstarred
    Image of newgalactic newgalactic
    11/13/09

    @tande04: Well, I guess there's your argument. What you call "making it easy" others call failing to take the steps necessary to prevent unintended charges.

    To-mA-to vs. To-Ma-to #datacharges
     Reply
    newgalactic was starred newgalactic was unstarred
    Image of JackTheTripper JackTheTripper
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    I had a phone on sprint that used to do that. I just reprogrammed the buttons to do something else like open contacts. #datacharges
     Reply
    JackTheTripper was starred JackTheTripper was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    Most non-smart phones do that, not just Verizon's. Unless you can't customize those shortcuts on those Verizon phones for some crazy reason.

    And I should read other people's comments too lest I sound like a parrot.
     Reply
    Edited by Pessimippopotamus at 11/13/09 5:55 PM Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of nutbastard nutbastard
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    just another reason why i go with prepaid for cell phones. #datacharges
     Reply
    nutbastard was starred nutbastard was unstarred
    Image of tande04 tande04
    11/13/09

    @nutbastard: Its just as much (if not more so) of an issue there. Then you're getting your "card" (or however you're doing pre-paid) sapped faster. I think it would be even worse cause you could end up out of minutes when you didn't expect it and just write it off as poor memory and buy another card. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 was starred tande04 was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/13/09

    @nutbastard: I can get accidentally charged with prepaid phones. I use one. It's just that the phone instantly tells me how much money was wasted. #datacharges
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of nutbastard nutbastard
    11/13/09

    @Pessimippopotamus:

    not here, man. i got t-mo prepaid (no cards) on a nokia shitbrick that isn't even capable of MMS. $100 for 1,000 minutes that dont expire for 1 year means i end up paying about $200-$250 a year for service, and never any erroneous charges. #datacharges
     Reply
    nutbastard was starred nutbastard was unstarred
    Image of Pessimippopotamus Pessimippopotamus
    11/13/09

    @nutbastard: I see I see. #datacharges
     Reply
    Pessimippopotamus was starred Pessimippopotamus was unstarred
    Image of nutbastard nutbastard
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    @Sean Fallon

    "This design "flaw" might be netting Verizon $300 million per year."

    then the article says:

    "That's over $300 million per month"

    month? year? #datacharges
     Reply
    nutbastard was starred nutbastard was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    11/13/09

    @nutbastard: Well, I mean, the article also assumes that all 87 million users will hit it accidentally several times a month. If you ask me, that assumes all of their customers are stupid and that none of them have data plans. #datacharges
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of tande04 tande04
    11/13/09

    @nutbastard: Month.

    Both Pogue's post and consumerists puts it in months...

    Which I find even harder to believe. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 was starred tande04 was unstarred
    Image of tande04 tande04
    11/13/09

    @Nathan Obbards: Yeah I've got a feeling this guy isn't passing a google interview anytime soon. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 was starred tande04 was unstarred
    Image of Jrsy Devil's Advocate® Jrsy Devil's Advocate®
    11/13/09

    @tande04: Nice.. #datacharges
     Reply
    Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was starred Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was unstarred
    Image of Lite: hates Illinois Nazis Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    Ya think? #datacharges
     Reply
    Lite: hates Illinois Nazis was starred Lite: hates Illinois Nazis was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    i am pretty sure you could build a legal argument in favor of consumers on this one. and this might be exactly that. some law firm out there is pushing this story to create a public outcry and rally support for some class action suit against krispy kreme doughnuts. cause obviously this isn't verizon's fault, but those pastry boys making all of our fingers fat. #datacharges
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    So, does the iPhone have an intentional design/programming flaw that nets Roger's and phone internet services revenue as well? I am referencing this potential problem in mobile Safari that was found recently: [www.theregister.co.uk]

    As far I'm concerned, it's your fault if you leave that key mapped to the web. Also, I'm suspicious of that charge for attempting to connect. This is Pogue we're talking about, so I take everything he says with a grain of salt. #datacharges
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of LazyPanda LazyPanda
    11/13/09

    @Nathan Obbards: I had a few different samsug phones with t-mobile in the past. Some of the phones you could configure the mapping for that button, some you couldn't.

    But at least with t-mobile, the data was free if I was just browsing their little wallpaper/game store. So I never got hit with a fee. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 promoted this comment LazyPanda was starred LazyPanda was unstarred
    Image of tande04 tande04
    11/13/09

    @LazyPanda: So is VZW's which is what is confusing many of us. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 was starred tande04 was unstarred
    Image of dragon:ONE dragon:ONE
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    'sup. Hitting UP *does* invoke a browser, but to the "My Verizon" account management page, where, at the bottom, states "Data and airtime free".

    So whatever phones are involved in this, well, they aren't configured for My Verizon on the 'up'. #datacharges
     Reply
    dragon:ONE was starred dragon:ONE was unstarred
    Image of GitEmSteveDave_HurtHisKnee GitEmSteveDave_HurtHisKnee
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    I always reprogram that stupid button shortcut on whatever Verizon phone I get. The only time they get me is that it's usually the first choice under settings & tools, so with my fat fingers, I hit the OK button instead of a down arrow, and get the connect screen. I'm usually pretty quick on hitting the end button, but never checked my bill for this.

    The simplest fix would be for a 3 second countdown in order to hit cancel. Of course, we know verizon won't do that. #datacharges
     Reply
    GitEmSteveDave_HurtHisKnee was starred GitEmSteveDave_HurtHisKnee was unstarred
    Image of aThingOrTwo aThingOrTwo
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    Just the sort of story AT&T wanted leaking right now… #datacharges
     Reply
    jepzilla promoted this comment aThingOrTwo was starred aThingOrTwo was unstarred
    Image of jepzilla jepzilla
    11/13/09

    @aThingOrTwo: I swear I've seen this same story on about a dozen blogs so far today. Which isn't unusual, often times tech blogs will pick up stories from each other, but I've never seen such a simultaneous outpouring over something comparatively insignificant.

    Makes me think someone's got a PR firm pushing a dirty story, and that makes me feel icky.
     Reply
    Edited by jepzilla at 11/13/09 5:02 PM jepzilla was starred jepzilla was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    11/13/09

    @aThingOrTwo: We know all of the carriers do things like this to "accidentally" boost their billing departments (have we ever heard of "texting", people?) - but this is very fishy timing, and to have only Verizon's name listed is a virtual ocean of fishes. #datacharges
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of tande04 tande04
    11/13/09

    @aThingOrTwo: Why? Its exactly the same over there. Its just as easy to hit a shortcut key that leads you to the net there.

    If it were a PR move. Its a pretty shitty one. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 was starred tande04 was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    11/13/09

    @tande04: Well, it is AT&T we are talking about... #datacharges
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of phunnyballs phunnyballs
    11/13/09

    In reply to Do Verizon Phones Have Intentional Design "Flaws" That Scam You Into Data Charges?
    I hit it often and never get a charge. When it says "connecting" I just exit out. :/ #datacharges
     Reply
    phunnyballs was starred phunnyballs was unstarred
    Image of CSX321 CSX321
    11/13/09

    @phunnyballs: I don't ever remember this happening, either, back before I had a data plan. In fact, there were times when I scanned through the Get It Now catalog to see if there was anything new, but I wasn't charged anything unless I actually bought something. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 promoted this comment CSX321 was starred CSX321 was unstarred
    Image of tande04 tande04
    11/13/09

    @CSX321: Yeah I didn't really get the "get it now" part. Its set up like a store. You go in and buy stuff. Its even gives you the normal web store "are you sure" prompts. If your butt is hitting that many buttons at the same time I'd recommend trying another pocket. #datacharges
     Reply
    tande04 was starred tande04 was unstarred
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