@AlphaUltima: I'd call the events of 9/11 as good an excuse for war as the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. You hit us, we hit back. Seems reasonable to me. #ussnewyork
@Barion: Except Iraq had nothing to do with it, did they? The Taliban offered to turn over Bin Laden, all Bush had to do was show them proof, proof which he did not have. #ussnewyork
@korybing: @Gary_7vn: I didn't say anything about Iraq, did I? 9/11 only justified our attack on Afghanistan, precisely because the Taliban refused to hand over Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
Bin Laden claimed responsibility for 9/11 after the U.S. invasion. #ussnewyork
I'm sorry, but I think this is pretty childish. What defines our society are our freedoms, tolerance and justice.
Wouldn't a more fitting tribute have been voting booths, or the steel for a girls' school, or something similar that truly represents what separates us from the terrorists? #ussnewyork
It's good that after all that death and destruction we decided to make a war ship. Yep, that makes sense. Dumb asses. I would never want to be memorialized with a war machine. Things that would make more sense: schools, shelters, artful memorials, libraries, or even a non-military boat. #ussnewyork
@aec007: Yet they wanted the families to forget when they asked for a better explanation as to why the official story did not answer most of their questions? Or made no sense for that matter...
Why the big fuss over a better investigation? Took Chaney 5 hours to declare war, yet it took them over 18 months to even begin an investigation into the whole thing.
Just saying. Uh, how are them Yankees? #ussnewyork
Whoa. Hang on. They took the some ruins of a building destroyed as "a symbol of american imperialism" to make a warship to enforce american imperialism?
Um.
Wow.
That's a uniquely american way of thinking. I feel very disturbed. #ussnewyork
@Andrew Johnson: I'm sure those 2,752 persons who died while at work (or who died trying to save those who were at work or those who happened to take the same flight as a bunch of deceived, self-seeking murders) that day did not think they were entering into A SYMBOL OF AMERICAN IMPERIALISM.
Why didn't you just post your message in German? Because without 'American Imperialism' your European-minded arse would be well versed in it. #ussnewyork
I didn't see the ship, but did see a trio of CH-46 Sea Knights zipping down the Hudson in formation. Those bids were likely twice the age of the Jarheads on board.
Lady Liberty is not a Queen of the Harbor. She is very intentionally not a Queen. She is a symbol of the best ideals of democratic aspirations and beliefs in "freedom".
Miss Liberty if you prefer.
Not sure why this matters to me, and more than the more obvious political matters at hand, but it does. #ussnewyork
@92BuickLeSabre: Really? And here I was thinking all this time that she was a symbolic representation of the so called Isis goddess.
A french sculptor, brother Frederic Bartholdi designed the thing, while brother Gustave Eiffel built it. It was originally designed for the opening of the Suez Canal in Egypt in 1867.
It was conceived as an effigy of the goddess Isis. After being rejected for the Suez Canal, brother Bartholdi converted it into "The Statue of Liberty". It was originally called "Liberty Enlightening the World".
It had nothing to do with "democratic freedom". It was a tribute to "Isis" if you will. #ussnewyork
@psychonaut2021: Secrets of the Pineal Gland: Wasn't it largely inspired by the Colossus of Rhodes, which was a statue of the Greek god Helios? #ussnewyork
@psychonaut2021: You give a nice narrative on how it was designed based on Isis. There are also nice narratives about how it was based on various older women of France. And nice narratives about how it was based on images of Lady France.
But none of that has anything to do with what it was meant to symbolically represent in the end. When it was completed and sent to the U.S. it was meant to be Liberty, in the French tradition. Both for the U.S. and back in France.
A cynical creation, even, with her torch, watching out for the encroaching forces of tyranny inside nations as much as welcoming in the "poor" and "huddled" masses. #ussnewyork
Edited by psychonaut2021:Secrets of the Pineal Gland at 11/03/09 7:25 PM
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This is neat and a nice tribute but you really have to wonder. They could build a new ship in less time then it's taken to cut through the red tape and start rebuilding at the WTC site. Kind of sad.
You know what would have been a great tribute and a huge FU to Osama. Rebuilding the towers or building even larger towers. (anti-aircraft missiles included.) #ussnewyork
@RyaninCalgary: Hey, WTC-7 was completely rebuilt, finished years ago and is now occupied (and quite a nice looking building). Of course, 7 was not part of the main site, so Silverstein hired and architect and some builders and got it done without all the politics and BS. Americans are still plenty capable of good work - American governments (esp NY City and State) are pretty much beyond help, and are really nothing more than PC money pits, hence the main WTC site.
@Canoehead: I wrote out this long diatribe in response, but then took a deep breath and deleted it.
But just so your comment doesn't stand without an objection, here you go: "Your comment is hypocritical, factually flawed, and offensive to the hard working people of our city." #ussnewyork
@92BuickLeSabre: Uh huh. Then why is it that NYers pay more taxes and have crappier schools and other services than almost any other American city? Why are the escalators at my Subway station out of service 1/3 of the time?
But really that's besides the point - the target of my original ire was our civic "leaders" who could not lead a piss-up in a brewery. #ussnewyork
@Canoehead: Your personal experiences with escalators and the city's historic struggle to improve one of the largest and most complicated school systems is certainly a compelling indictment of the entire government.
@92BuickLeSabre: I don't know - how can you rebut the fiasco that is the LMDC? Can you explain how more than 8 years later there is nothing more than a hole with a few pylons?
I'm sorry - do you contend that NY State and City governments run well and efficiently? That despite one of the highest per-pupil spending rates in the US, that the education system performs well? That it is perfectly acceptable to have hundreds of teachers drawing full salaries sitting around doing nothing because union intransigence and managerial incompetence means that they cannot be fired but also cannot be trusted to be in a classroom?
Do you live in an Ivory Tower with Mayor Bloomberg? #ussnewyork
@Canoehead: Yes, in fact I do. But I didn't always. I've lived and worked in more parts of NYC than plenty of folks.
But you're taking multiple institutions and mixing them all together to suit your arguments. Do I think the city has problems? Do I think the rubber rooms are ridiculous? Do I believe there are crooked politicians and judges on the take? Do I think our current mayor is a preening egotist who pretends to care about Jamaica, Queens but really can't see beyond the end of his king bed in Bermuda. Is the city too expensive (and more expensive than it has any right to be)? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
But use some history here. These are not new problems. In any city. In any country. In any era. With large governments and tiny ones and in places with no government at all.
New York City is also one of the most dynamic, welcoming, diverse, safest cities in the world. It's come a long way since the 1970s and since the 1930s and since the 1870s and since the 1830s.
It has literally almost collapsed under its own problems time and again during its history, and yet it's the largest city in the country and continues to grow.
And where should I go instead? What fair municipality lacks problems? Los Angeles? Detroit? Houston? Atlanta? Jackson?
The answer to a problem isn't to say something is "beyond help" and nothing more than a "PC money pit."
It's the easy way out, the critics way out, and, honestly, if you could do it so much better, than it seems to be that the answer would be to step up and try. #ussnewyork
As a ten-year USN veteran and a New Yorker who was on block away on 9/11, I have to say I'm with Soldier_CLE on this one. It's about patriotism and trying to honor those lost. If you haven't served, your negative comments to me are just.. characters on some web page.
If you disagree or don't share my patriotism, fine. Again, these are just characters on some web page.
War created the tensions that led to the death of these people. I don't think it fitting to create a tribute to them that is also a weapon that furthers conflict. I would have preferred to see this steel used to create cargo containers used for international aid shipments. #ussnewyork
@The Lab: If you actually read the letter, it's a culture war. Read why he hates us, because we educate women and let them work, because we allow freedom of religion, etc. #ussnewyork
@The Lab: I kindly ask you to cram that letter up your Keister. Apposing the battleship is one thing, but flying around letters written by those whom also support genocide and the murdering of ones own civilians is just not going to float with me. #ussnewyork
@The Lab: Please spread your hippie babble elsewhere, and allow for the rest of the world to enjoy the ship.
War has been around since the DAWN OF TIME, get over it. #ussnewyork
@The Lab: I would argue that Western Foreign policy was the catalyst for 9/11. But I understand your point. The capital used to build another warship might have been better used to deal with failing education systems, homeless, etc... #ussnewyork
@The Lab: For every legitimate point the letter makes, it has just as many that are full of crap. Sure, we probably shouldn't be interfering in the Middle East as much as we do. Sure, we should be a little harder on Israel for some of the crap they pull. But the letter also says we shouldn't allow women to work, we shouldn't have secular government, we shouldn't have freedom of religion... #ussnewyork
@Shamoononon: I shave my legs.: Whoa there tiger. I was just posting that because 99% of the people who talk about this subject haven't read the letter. I don't support the ideas contained therein but I do think that the letter should be read. #ussnewyork
@Con Seannery: I also disagree with the letter. The purpose of posting it was that almost NO ONE has read it. Ask around. My only goal here is to get people to read the basic texts of an issue before engaging in debate. #ussnewyork
@The Lab: I gotta support the Lab here. Are we better off shoving our heads in the sand (pun intended) or "knowing thy enemy"? I'm gonna read his jihadist rhetoric because it helps me know what makes this fucker tick. Osama is an absolutist. Are you? #ussnewyork
@The Lab: So... should we really care WHY he murders people? He's a terrorist, not some mis-understood David with right on his side going up against an evil Goliath. He's also not a patriot who wants to 'make the world a better place' (even a better place within his own ideas). He doesn't care about the Palestinians any more than Israel does, but he'll sure us it to advance his political means (just like Iran...). So, instead of posting his complaints on the American door, he decides to kill people.
Nobody needs to read a letter to understand that he doesn't like America/The West and he disagrees with us. #ussnewyork
@DoctorZoidberg: Considering that he is the most significant enemy of the USA, yeah I do think we should try and figure out why he murders people.
It is fine if you don't think he believes his own argument. I am just glad you read it. Most people think he just "hates our freedom" and they leave it at that. #ussnewyork
@The Lab: Um... he DOES hate our freedom and that's THE MOST IMPORTANT thing we could be protecting. He can hate our freedom all he wants. Heck, there are people in this very country that hate our freedom, but at least they don't kill people.
And no, I didn't read it. I could care less what the bastard has to say, unless it's an apology or some sort of admittance of wrong-doing. At least that would be a start.
People who protest in the street are worth listening to. People who run for public office are worth listening to. People who speak, and debate, and argue are worth listening to. People who work to make changes by changing minds and helping people are worth listening to. Terrorists should be hunted down and locked away forever. #ussnewyork
@DoctorZoidberg: Out of respect for the subject of this post, I am not going to engage in a conversation about Osama's intentions. Out of respect for myself, I am not going to engage anyone so shamelessly proud of their own ignorance. RTFA. #ussnewyork
....and now to use some of the leftover steel to make some more nukes that are gonna be shoved up terrorists' ass and a "special" anal probe for bin Laden. #ussnewyork
not to sound like one of those conspiracy theorist nuts but i remember reading that all the steel from the WTCs were taken to staten island and kept under extreme security before it could be taken to secret locations and smelted down because they didn't want people doing tests on the steel (or so some say) Its funny that the steel wasn't put back into circulation but rather used on a military machine thereby keeping it (forever) classified. #ussnewyork
@TonyWonder: Actually, some of the steel was sent to the National Institute of Standards and Technology where it was extensively tested. Scientists worked to replicate the conditions in different areas of the building to determine what caused the building to fail. They concluded that the reasonable explanation was entirely plausible and went on to issue building recommendations to prevent similar collapses in new buildings. You can view their data and read their enormous report here: [wtc.nist.gov]#ussnewyork
@TonyWonder: ...Or maybe because they were concerned about toxic materials in the steel and waste, and still looking for human remains as well. One of those. #ussnewyork
I forget, now that the president is a limp wristed commie, do we support war actions or not? I can't remember what I'm supposed to do in this situation, I know we're still bombing civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq, yet, the anti-war protestors aren't out in my city anymore.
@djdare: You have a legitimate point. For me though, war is not just about the politics but rather the weighed consequences.
Even if B-HO is a "limp-wristed commie", he'd better make sure that he looks at the AOI from American interests and not from any direction that detriments the citizens or the troops, because if he fails... the backlash would be similar to the GB fiasco (He weren't the greatest tactician, either to be honest.)
That's not to say that I a impressed with B-HO thus far. I'm not. #ussnewyork
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
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@djdare: Well. 'Merica voted for that limp wristed commie. Are you talking shit about 'Merica? You must hate 'Merica. To question anything 'Merica does is unpatriotic. Didn't Dubya teach you anything? #ussnewyork
The demolicans with their "war isn't the answer" unless its the guy I voted for, then it's okay, I mean we have to be fair minded about it right? I wanted the war over in Iraq now, when Obama was a senator, but now that he's president, I think we need to be reasonable.
And the republicrats "I support the constitution" unless it's W doing the 2-step on it. I mean freedom of religion is cool, as long as it's mine, and I love the right to bear arms, but you better not be a terrorist or an illegal alien, then your rights don't exist.
I'm just your usual internet libertarian, who believes in maximization of freedom, don't look at me. These Tea party people really grind my gears too, where were you when W started this whole TARP mess? Where were your protests when they sent out fat checks to everyone in the country... just to... you know jumpstart the economy. Now suddenly Obama does the same thing, only to his favored corporate buddies, and suddenly it's a problem??? Where were you 2 years ago? #ussnewyork
@clarketelecom: As a person that believed GWB were wrong (when I were out there on AOI), and still a believer that he is wrong today, I am not a person that buys into the B-HO rhetoric, either.
Both can be dangerous in different ways. #ussnewyork
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Myself, I am an ANTI-POLITICAL CORRECT Moderate Independent that can understand and agree on things from both sides of the aisle. I completely respect and agree in the defense of the constitution against ALL ENEMIES, foriegn AND domestic, and also believes in the Thomas Jefferson way of governmental philosophy.
I believe that a person who serves the U.S. Armed Forces (or civil service) represents and serves the will of the people via the United States Constitution, and not the needs of a politician's rhetoric.
I am keen and wise to the motives that both major political party machines want me to believe, but ultimately they fail with me, as I think, act and vote with the one thing they failed to have corrupted:
My conscience.
I believe that some are right on some things and wrong on others. I speak my mind as clear and concise on the topics at hand (and involving them) and also will not yield because some emotionally sensitive fool believes that I should yield to their senses.
No, I will not do that, and I do not expect anyone else to do the same. For it is insincere and disingenuine to and of the one thing that makes us who we are: Ourselves and our thoughts.
That should give the political correct (and those who wish to stifle dissenting opinion) something to think about. #ussnewyork
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
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11/03/09
turn a national tragedy into an excuse for war. #ussnewyork
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11/04/09
Bin Laden claimed responsibility for 9/11 after the U.S. invasion. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
Wouldn't a more fitting tribute have been voting booths, or the steel for a girls' school, or something similar that truly represents what separates us from the terrorists? #ussnewyork
11/03/09
11/02/09
And anybody that messes with this ship, won't forget either. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
Why the big fuss over a better investigation? Took Chaney 5 hours to declare war, yet it took them over 18 months to even begin an investigation into the whole thing.
Just saying. Uh, how are them Yankees? #ussnewyork
11/02/09
Um.
Wow.
That's a uniquely american way of thinking. I feel very disturbed. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
Why didn't you just post your message in German? Because without 'American Imperialism' your European-minded arse would be well versed in it. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
11/02/09
[en.wikipedia.org] #ussnewyork
11/02/09
Miss Liberty if you prefer.
Not sure why this matters to me, and more than the more obvious political matters at hand, but it does. #ussnewyork
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A french sculptor, brother Frederic Bartholdi designed the thing, while brother Gustave Eiffel built it. It was originally designed for the opening of the Suez Canal in Egypt in 1867.
It was conceived as an effigy of the goddess Isis. After being rejected for the Suez Canal, brother Bartholdi converted it into "The Statue of Liberty". It was originally called "Liberty Enlightening the World".
It had nothing to do with "democratic freedom". It was a tribute to "Isis" if you will. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
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But none of that has anything to do with what it was meant to symbolically represent in the end. When it was completed and sent to the U.S. it was meant to be Liberty, in the French tradition. Both for the U.S. and back in France.
A cynical creation, even, with her torch, watching out for the encroaching forces of tyranny inside nations as much as welcoming in the "poor" and "huddled" masses. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
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Apathy is lethal.
11/02/09
You know what would have been a great tribute and a huge FU to Osama. Rebuilding the towers or building even larger towers. (anti-aircraft missiles included.) #ussnewyork
11/02/09
[en.wikipedia.org] #ussnewyork
11/02/09
But just so your comment doesn't stand without an objection, here you go: "Your comment is hypocritical, factually flawed, and offensive to the hard working people of our city." #ussnewyork
11/02/09
@RyaninCalgary: I like this one: #ussnewyork
11/03/09
But really that's besides the point - the target of my original ire was our civic "leaders" who could not lead a piss-up in a brewery. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
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How could I possibly rebut. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
I'm sorry - do you contend that NY State and City governments run well and efficiently? That despite one of the highest per-pupil spending rates in the US, that the education system performs well? That it is perfectly acceptable to have hundreds of teachers drawing full salaries sitting around doing nothing because union intransigence and managerial incompetence means that they cannot be fired but also cannot be trusted to be in a classroom?
Do you live in an Ivory Tower with Mayor Bloomberg? #ussnewyork
11/03/09
But you're taking multiple institutions and mixing them all together to suit your arguments. Do I think the city has problems? Do I think the rubber rooms are ridiculous? Do I believe there are crooked politicians and judges on the take? Do I think our current mayor is a preening egotist who pretends to care about Jamaica, Queens but really can't see beyond the end of his king bed in Bermuda. Is the city too expensive (and more expensive than it has any right to be)? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
But use some history here. These are not new problems. In any city. In any country. In any era. With large governments and tiny ones and in places with no government at all.
New York City is also one of the most dynamic, welcoming, diverse, safest cities in the world. It's come a long way since the 1970s and since the 1930s and since the 1870s and since the 1830s.
It has literally almost collapsed under its own problems time and again during its history, and yet it's the largest city in the country and continues to grow.
And where should I go instead? What fair municipality lacks problems? Los Angeles? Detroit? Houston? Atlanta? Jackson?
The answer to a problem isn't to say something is "beyond help" and nothing more than a "PC money pit."
It's the easy way out, the critics way out, and, honestly, if you could do it so much better, than it seems to be that the answer would be to step up and try. #ussnewyork
11/02/09
If you disagree or don't share my patriotism, fine. Again, these are just characters on some web page.
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War has been around since the DAWN OF TIME, get over it. #ussnewyork
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Nobody needs to read a letter to understand that he doesn't like America/The West and he disagrees with us. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
It is fine if you don't think he believes his own argument. I am just glad you read it. Most people think he just "hates our freedom" and they leave it at that. #ussnewyork
11/03/09
And no, I didn't read it. I could care less what the bastard has to say, unless it's an apology or some sort of admittance of wrong-doing. At least that would be a start.
People who protest in the street are worth listening to. People who run for public office are worth listening to. People who speak, and debate, and argue are worth listening to. People who work to make changes by changing minds and helping people are worth listening to. Terrorists should be hunted down and locked away forever. #ussnewyork
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@jetRink: #ussnewyork
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'Merica, fuck yah! #ussnewyork
11/02/09
Even if B-HO is a "limp-wristed commie", he'd better make sure that he looks at the AOI from American interests and not from any direction that detriments the citizens or the troops, because if he fails... the backlash would be similar to the GB fiasco (He weren't the greatest tactician, either to be honest.)
That's not to say that I a impressed with B-HO thus far. I'm not. #ussnewyork
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
The demolicans with their "war isn't the answer" unless its the guy I voted for, then it's okay, I mean we have to be fair minded about it right? I wanted the war over in Iraq now, when Obama was a senator, but now that he's president, I think we need to be reasonable.
And the republicrats "I support the constitution" unless it's W doing the 2-step on it. I mean freedom of religion is cool, as long as it's mine, and I love the right to bear arms, but you better not be a terrorist or an illegal alien, then your rights don't exist.
I'm just your usual internet libertarian, who believes in maximization of freedom, don't look at me. These Tea party people really grind my gears too, where were you when W started this whole TARP mess? Where were your protests when they sent out fat checks to everyone in the country... just to... you know jumpstart the economy. Now suddenly Obama does the same thing, only to his favored corporate buddies, and suddenly it's a problem??? Where were you 2 years ago? #ussnewyork
11/02/09
Both can be dangerous in different ways. #ussnewyork
11/02/09
Myself, I am an ANTI-POLITICAL CORRECT Moderate Independent that can understand and agree on things from both sides of the aisle. I completely respect and agree in the defense of the constitution against ALL ENEMIES, foriegn AND domestic, and also believes in the Thomas Jefferson way of governmental philosophy.
I believe that a person who serves the U.S. Armed Forces (or civil service) represents and serves the will of the people via the United States Constitution, and not the needs of a politician's rhetoric.
I am keen and wise to the motives that both major political party machines want me to believe, but ultimately they fail with me, as I think, act and vote with the one thing they failed to have corrupted:
My conscience.
I believe that some are right on some things and wrong on others. I speak my mind as clear and concise on the topics at hand (and involving them) and also will not yield because some emotionally sensitive fool believes that I should yield to their senses.
No, I will not do that, and I do not expect anyone else to do the same. For it is insincere and disingenuine to and of the one thing that makes us who we are: Ourselves and our thoughts.
That should give the political correct (and those who wish to stifle dissenting opinion) something to think about. #ussnewyork
11/02/09
11/03/09
Longwinded as some of my musings are, I prefer them to flow, like a fountain pen on paper. Even if some of it is uncoothed. #ussnewyork
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