To illustrate this effect we either need something filmed by a hd-high-speed camera or at least some high res snapshots of the difformed result, not with some low-res 15fps that adds its own artefacts and clunkyness. #refreshrates
I um....cant tell the difference.... What is this soap opera effect? We have a Sony Bravia that has the 120Hz thing but I dont notice a soap opera effect. #refreshrates
@TheClap: Taking a 24 frame per second film and recreating frames (usually doubling frame rates or more) to life-like motion is what some called "soap opera" effect, as some TV shows like soap operas can broadcast a life-like motion of 60 frames per second while other shows or films or animated cartoons broadcast at 24 or 30 frames per second.
Personally, I hate calling the effect "soap opera", as I don't watch soap operas -- but I think it's a critic's term to define life-like motions for motion interpolation features on HDTV sets. #refreshrates
My set does 120 Hz, but I keep it off. I don't like watching high budget movies that result in looking like they're made for TV. My BluRay player gives me the option of 24p which is what I keep on instead. #refreshrates
@Daniel Wong: Actually, while the film runs on 24hz, movie theater projectors flash the frames twice or three times the rate to reduce flicker. #refreshrates
@Norm the Alligator:
Is this why bluray movies shown on new 240hz screens look like absolute surreal crap? The worst for this was animated movies like Wall*E, which reminded of those old school animations that came out of the first CGI college classes back in the early to mid 90's. You all know the ones I'm talking about. #refreshrates
@ripfire:
Why would they do this? Flicker is a good thing, as it keeps the audience in a semi-trance, and glued to the movie screen. I just watched a program on Discovery HD that talked about how Sony had to spend millions getting their HD theater projectors to perform more like traditional film projectors, while keeping the higher resolution and cleaner image. #refreshrates
In the same way WHAT content is natively rendered at 120Hz, or 240Hz?
I like my plasma because it doesn't pull the "soap opera effect" on everything I watch, and please don't say you can turn it off. The feature should exist to complement and add to the experiance. Not soap opera everything.
Well everything I am saying is a moot point, I don't care what LCD has going for it.
@aniteshj: I do believe that effect is caused by Digital Natural Motion, which is a form of software processing, not by the 120/240Hz refresh rates themselves. Those refresh rates(at least this is the effect for me) actually make the frame rates of both film(for blu-ray disks, 24Hz) and HDTV(60Hz) go in evenly, which removes the need for nasty effects such as 3:2 pulldown. #refreshrates
@ripfire: MarcusMaximus is right. It's the software (or algorithms) that causes the issue. And the main benefit of a 240Hz TV is to be able to watch 3D content at 120Hz (per eye that is). For everything else 120Hz is just fine. Actually it's perfect. #refreshrates
@Mike: i don't think it is an issue that stems from the light source, but the processor. i believe it starts to incorporate frame interpolation with higher refresh rates and what not which ain't everyone's cup-o-noodle. #refreshrates
@Nick: Its not the processor.. its the response time of the pixels to change state. Liquid crystals are, after all, physical entities that twist and bend to change the color of light passing though them. It take time to go from one state to anther. #refreshrates
@Nick: The issue with lcd is the response time as Nick says, generally around 6 - 8ms on LCD, however Plasma has much less time <1ms therefore less motionblur. The 120HZ and 240HZ interpolate extra frames to smooth out the picture. This can have a video effect on film based content, however i believe this to be far less so than the first chips that came out. The pro versions now input extra blank frames to further smooth the motion and give a more realistic effect. Response time is falling on LCD and however for now if you buy a good set with higher quality interpolation, the effect can be excellent especially on video content. #refreshrates
@mlvds: Why would you do this, when you can buy a mirror that size for a hundred bucks, and get the same amount of enjoyment out of the fancy plasma you're talking up?
Plasma's might be great in a totally dark room, but they are fucking worthless in the average living room. #refreshrates
@JohnnyGTO: +1. That's the reason I don't have cable.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind being able to pick and choose 15 shows for say $20 (any network). I don't watch a lot of TV, but the convenience of watching whenever I wanted, without DVR'ing it would be a godsend. #apple
I just want a convenient way to get a good enough quality picture time-shifted but still available the same day without having to jump through a million hoops and have to pay through the nose. #apple
@Identity (reclamation): You and me both, brother. I have a sinking feeling that when they do finally figure that that is what people want, need and are actually doing they'll charge us out the wazoo and it'll be close to what cable is, unfortunately. Cable Co. is not giving up that money without a fight. #apple
@Super Moose: I don't know if you can really argue with such a succinctly put point.
It would be worth $30 to me if I could basically build my own station. If I'm picking what I want, when I want it and the program is doing the work to get it to me instead of me browsing to Hulu or whatnot and sorting through everything to get what I want then the convenience could be worth that much. #apple
@tande04: They would also have to have HD content. But I would certainly pay for that given there is content and quality.
I know people even torrent stuff but most of the time using alternatives is a hassle and many times it's some guy who uploaded some low quality vid that looks crappy. I want to be done with that, especially in an HD age. Hulu is ok, but I would like to see more HD content and more shows.
If I could have it all in one or two programs (Like itunes or Hulu desktop), on demand, and decent video quality to HD resolution (to Hulu's credit, shows look pretty decent in Hulu desktop), I see that worth the price.
hmmmmm, $30 a month into apple's already bulging pocket, or $5 a month to keep an extra box running in my parents' house and a slingbox that i got for free? (and my parents have FiOS, which is actually excellent quality)
i just saved three hundred dollars a year on cable, and got it linked up to my blackberry!
novel idea, but it will be more useful for people who are stuck with comcast or big cable at the moment. people who already have FiOS might not even look twice at this. #apple
@rimplestultskin, macberry fanboy: what you just said makes no sense at all. Verizon/ATT/Comcast are just as money grubbing/greedy as Apple, so that comment was stupid.
Also, Fios TV costs at least 47 dollars a month, as does Comcast, so 30 dollars a month for this is actually a fantastic deal, esp because I bet there will be great integration btw TV/Computer/portables. So I'd imagine people with FiOS would probably look at it at least twice unless they're retards. #apple
@loriensleafs: I wouldn't be so quick to call others "retards".
Where did you get any implication that apple would be your ISP in this deal? How are you going to be getting all of this content to your computer for only $30 a month if you don't have internet?
On the same side though I do agree that I wouldn't be talking about what a great deal I'm getting 'cause I'm still mooching off my parents. #apple
@tande04: well given everyone who has a computer pretty much has cable or fios, you would be canciling your cable bill and adding itunes. Given I pay over 70 dollars for cable + 50 for internet, dropping 40 dollars of that cable bill is a steal, especially since all I watch are syfy, the discovery networks, DIY, and encore but since I have netflix not even that anymore. #apple
I glossed over the Fios "TV" part. I didn't know that VZ even offered a fiber optic TV service I thought it was all internet.
Yeah, dropping the cable TV part is the point. My point was only that you still need some internet connection to get it. Oh and my other point is not to call others "retard". #apple
@tande04: I didn't assume they would be the isp, 47 was the TV, so what I'm saying it, keeping your internet and adding 30 for tv is better then the TV/Internet deals a lot of the companies have right now. And I would say that logic was retarded. To say this is stupid because I only have to pay 5 bucks for a box and don't have to worry about the rest cause my parents do, thus that's a bad deal?? #apple
I find that hard to believe. Markets differ and all of that but that is an insane discount.
I guess the follow up is what are we really talking here? Are you just getting basic, extended basic, etc. After all if its just "basic" your paying $10 too much already.
The other follow up would be what are you valuing the internet cost on?
The third follow up is where the hell do you live so I can move there and get $10 TV. #apple
I use both AppleTV and Cable. For all y'all crapping on AppleTV, consider this: Comcast COMPRESSES all their HD content to the point of pixelation. This becomes even more apparent when compared to OTA transmission. When I buy an HD program from iTunes, at least it's not overly compressed to the point of being worse than OTA.
I'm really considering dropping cable ANYWAY and doing the OTA/AppleTV thing. Probably save me some flow, too. #apple
@MaNiFeX: I've been saying for years that I'd pay a flat, reasonable fee to just download the shows I want as they become available.
Cable companies complain that they're losing money, but imagine how much bandwidth they could open up if the cut down the number of overly-compressed channels they squeeze onto their copper and switched to an IPTV-based system, like U-Verse and FIOS. They'd have tons more room for data -- they could keep their advertised speeds the same, but actually deliver on them.
Sorry, I'll stop being forward-thinking now. #apple
@superberg: I don't think this is going to include a download option though.
That would be awesome. I too would be all over that, but I don't get the impression that is what this is.
On the one hand thats going to cut into apple's revenue stream, which they're not likely to do. If they're charging me $50 to download a whole season of a show I don't foresee them charging me only $30 for every show I like. #apple
@tande04: Right, but a season of a show can last for several months. A season pass to shows like The Daily Show or Colbert Report, which run year-round, lasts a month and gets you something like 16 episodes for ten bucks.
Also, that is downloadable. I have a feeling Apple would rather you download anything you plan on watching more than once. Their entire store model is based on downloading. #apple
Are you kidding me Apple? You think people will give up their no fuss cable for a buggy piece of crap app like iTunes?? No way will I ever be trapped in the Apple again!
iTunes is already holding some of my TV shows and video's hostage, I was able to get my music out of there.
All I can say is dont trust one company with ALL of your media, one crap iteration and you're screwed! #apple
I would dump my cable in an instant and replace it with iTunes monthly if this came true. I don't watch much TV as it is, thus negating the value of the excess of channels I have, most of which I don't particularly like, I'd cut down my bill significantly, and more importantly, I'd be able to take my subscription around with me in the form of my Macbook Pro in any decent hotspot, since current iTunes allows me to view and download from the US store no matter where I am, so long as I'm logged into my account.
Currently, Hulu picks up OK with its free ad-based viewing, but if my worst fears for Hulu comes true, I'll never be using that service again. #apple
@Ken Gilb: Correct. Unless Hulu can revamp its service significantly, I see no reason to give them money if an option like iTunes allows me a subscription. #apple
Assuming it's HD, that means that it's the equivalent of 15 shows. You'd pretty much kill cable. Such a rumor would be crazy for media companies to agree to. #apple
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/06/09
I'm glad I'm not the only person who got absolutely nothing other then confusion out of that video. #refreshrates
11/05/09
11/05/09
Personally, I hate calling the effect "soap opera", as I don't watch soap operas -- but I think it's a critic's term to define life-like motions for motion interpolation features on HDTV sets. #refreshrates
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/06/09
Is this why bluray movies shown on new 240hz screens look like absolute surreal crap? The worst for this was animated movies like Wall*E, which reminded of those old school animations that came out of the first CGI college classes back in the early to mid 90's. You all know the ones I'm talking about. #refreshrates
11/06/09
Why would they do this? Flicker is a good thing, as it keeps the audience in a semi-trance, and glued to the movie screen. I just watched a program on Discovery HD that talked about how Sony had to spend millions getting their HD theater projectors to perform more like traditional film projectors, while keeping the higher resolution and cleaner image. #refreshrates
11/05/09
I like my plasma because it doesn't pull the "soap opera effect" on everything I watch, and please don't say you can turn it off. The feature should exist to complement and add to the experiance. Not soap opera everything.
Well everything I am saying is a moot point, I don't care what LCD has going for it.
I have a Kuro. :P #refreshrates
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/06/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
I have a 2006 600series and I been more then happy with it..
There will be huge deal after Black Friday! #refreshrates
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/06/09
Plasma's might be great in a totally dark room, but they are fucking worthless in the average living room. #refreshrates
11/02/09
11/02/09
Honestly, I wouldn't mind being able to pick and choose 15 shows for say $20 (any network). I don't watch a lot of TV, but the convenience of watching whenever I wanted, without DVR'ing it would be a godsend. #apple
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
It would be worth $30 to me if I could basically build my own station. If I'm picking what I want, when I want it and the program is doing the work to get it to me instead of me browsing to Hulu or whatnot and sorting through everything to get what I want then the convenience could be worth that much. #apple
11/02/09
I know people even torrent stuff but most of the time using alternatives is a hassle and many times it's some guy who uploaded some low quality vid that looks crappy. I want to be done with that, especially in an HD age. Hulu is ok, but I would like to see more HD content and more shows.
If I could have it all in one or two programs (Like itunes or Hulu desktop), on demand, and decent video quality to HD resolution (to Hulu's credit, shows look pretty decent in Hulu desktop), I see that worth the price.
11/02/09
11/02/09
i just saved three hundred dollars a year on cable, and got it linked up to my blackberry!
novel idea, but it will be more useful for people who are stuck with comcast or big cable at the moment. people who already have FiOS might not even look twice at this. #apple
11/02/09
Also, Fios TV costs at least 47 dollars a month, as does Comcast, so 30 dollars a month for this is actually a fantastic deal, esp because I bet there will be great integration btw TV/Computer/portables. So I'd imagine people with FiOS would probably look at it at least twice unless they're retards. #apple
11/02/09
Where did you get any implication that apple would be your ISP in this deal? How are you going to be getting all of this content to your computer for only $30 a month if you don't have internet?
On the same side though I do agree that I wouldn't be talking about what a great deal I'm getting 'cause I'm still mooching off my parents. #apple
11/02/09
11/02/09
I glossed over the Fios "TV" part. I didn't know that VZ even offered a fiber optic TV service I thought it was all internet.
Yeah, dropping the cable TV part is the point. My point was only that you still need some internet connection to get it. Oh and my other point is not to call others "retard". #apple
11/02/09
11/02/09
I get a great deal on internet and TV that makes the cable TV cost around $10.
Do NOT want. #apple
11/02/09
I find that hard to believe. Markets differ and all of that but that is an insane discount.
I guess the follow up is what are we really talking here? Are you just getting basic, extended basic, etc. After all if its just "basic" your paying $10 too much already.
The other follow up would be what are you valuing the internet cost on?
The third follow up is where the hell do you live so I can move there and get $10 TV. #apple
11/02/09
I'm really considering dropping cable ANYWAY and doing the OTA/AppleTV thing. Probably save me some flow, too. #apple
11/02/09
Cable companies complain that they're losing money, but imagine how much bandwidth they could open up if the cut down the number of overly-compressed channels they squeeze onto their copper and switched to an IPTV-based system, like U-Verse and FIOS. They'd have tons more room for data -- they could keep their advertised speeds the same, but actually deliver on them.
Sorry, I'll stop being forward-thinking now. #apple
11/02/09
That would be awesome. I too would be all over that, but I don't get the impression that is what this is.
On the one hand thats going to cut into apple's revenue stream, which they're not likely to do. If they're charging me $50 to download a whole season of a show I don't foresee them charging me only $30 for every show I like. #apple
11/02/09
Also, that is downloadable. I have a feeling Apple would rather you download anything you plan on watching more than once. Their entire store model is based on downloading. #apple
11/02/09
11/02/09
iTunes is already holding some of my TV shows and video's hostage, I was able to get my music out of there.
All I can say is dont trust one company with ALL of your media, one crap iteration and you're screwed! #apple
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
Currently, Hulu picks up OK with its free ad-based viewing, but if my worst fears for Hulu comes true, I'll never be using that service again. #apple
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09