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MacAttack7388
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
So wait, CD ripping software, like iTunes is legal, but DVD ripping is not? Seems to me like the motion picture industry has better lobbyists.
Oh, the almighty dollar.
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BloggyMcBlogBlog
08/12/09

@MacAttack7388: I believe it has to do with encryption. CD's aren't encrypted so you don't have to break the encryption to make a copy. Since DVD's are encrypted, the circumvention of the encryption is what is illegal.
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Kaiser-Machead
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
Yeah? Well osculate with my posterior, douchebiscuit. Unless a more convenient, legal and less restrictive means to have my library exist as a collection of files on my Macbook/iPod becomes more apparent, HandBrake will be my bestest friend in the whole wide world.
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Edited by Kaiser-Machead at 08/12/09 10:21 AM Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred

Intelext
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
I don't see what the problem is with dvd copying software. I bought the cd and thus it is my property and i can do whatever i want with it, i don't see how anyone can say you can't do xxx with YOUR dvd.
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Kaiser-Machead
08/12/09

@Intelext: Don't listen to them. Let 'er rip ;)
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rcast1986
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
Well fuck that.
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Justin Paulson
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
This is not a great precedence....What about when the same thing is rolled out to CD copying. Will iTunes be illegal? Will MP3 players? This is basically the same thing with different media. I'm pretty sure the DMCA covers music CDs the same way that it covers DVDs...so is the MP3 player industry in trouble now?
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MostlyHarmless promoted this comment Justin Paulson was starred Justin Paulson was unstarred

MostlyHarmless
08/12/09

@Justinpaulson: No, mainly because _legal_ MP3 market is very strong. It's not even the same thing we are talking about.
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Justin Paulson
08/12/09

@Justinpaulson: Yikes! Talk about overkill! I get it, CDs aren't encrypted.....yet.
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OCEntertainment
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
So, let me get this straight.....it could very easily (and in light of the CD situation, incredibly likely) be that making DVD backup copies is legal and a-ok. But distributors get to tack on software that makes these a-ok copies impossible, and then make it illegal to get around that software?
Yes. Yes I think that accurately summarizes how royally screwed up this mess is.
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bagellord
08/12/09

@OCEntertainment: My thoughts exactly. Get out of my head!
Anywho, it should be completely legal to make copies for your own personal backup and use (like it supposedly is) and be legal to use the tools to do so. They will never ever ever be able to stop people from pirating and bootlegging DVD's so they may as well make it easier on the rest of us.
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Bigbadbikernerd promoted this comment bagellord was starred bagellord was unstarred

ri59
08/12/09

@OCEntertainment: It's your DVD and encoded bits of data on it. Do with it what you want for your own personal use.
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StupidSimple
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
So netflix doesn't rip the streaming movie content? Is there a mex..(insert cheap labor man here) putting a dvd in a player on the other side every time I hit the play button?
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Kaiser-Machead promoted this comment Edited by StupidSimple at 08/12/09 9:24 AM StupidSimple was starred StupidSimple was unstarred

Kaiser-Machead
08/12/09

@StupidSimple: Netflix is authorized to redistribute the movies through the browser as an encrypted stream. It's no different from an iTunes expiry-encoded movie file that deletes itself 24 hours after the movie is played. It's a tad different from, say, you renting Netflix movies and ripping them, then sending them back.
Also, unnecessary much?
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weatherman
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
I hope Real appeals this as far as they can. It's absurd to me that the court would find permissible fair use for DVD copying while at the same time ruling that no tool can be created that would allow that fair use to happen.
At the same time, congress needs to revisit the DMCA. Folks ought to have a right to view content on whatever device they see fit, and not be locked into a particular format. Let's get some consumer protection up in that DMCA for a change.
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The_Gas_Man
08/12/09

@weatherman: Don't blame the court.
The judge is simply interpreting the law as it is written; he has no power to change it.
Blame the legislators for passing such terrible laws in the first place, and demand that they fix it.
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weatherman promoted this comment The_Gas_Man was starred The_Gas_Man was unstarred

Monty
08/12/09

@weatherman: Correct - as you know. If we could re-write or dump that 1998 DMCA suddenly the dozens of rulings like this are history and we would be drinking our favorite beverage and laughing like crazy people at the funeral. The issue is that corporations love the DMCA, so the chances that it will be changed or dumped are near nil. In fact, they keep working on making it worse.
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weatherman
08/12/09

@The_Gas_Man: every court, from the lowest to the highest, can interpret conflicts of law. I don't "blame" the court for choosing the easy way out and ruling in favor of supporting the DCMA, but it'd be a shame if the appeals courts just let that ruling stand without inquiry into this inherent conflict.
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SamburgerHandwich
08/12/09

@weatherman: part of the DMCA states that they will revisit it every 3 years to find exceptions. This is how it goes down:

Users: "we want to be able to copy the content we purchase, regardless of encryption"
Big Media: "They want to anally rape your mother!"

Consider this: It is still illegal for blind people to circumvent encryption in e-books so they can use text-to-speech. A blind person can, however, develop their own software to do this. It is a known fact that blind people are masters of breaking encryption schemes.
If the freakin blind don't get a break, I don't expect we will.
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Kaiser-Machead promoted this comment Edited by SamburgerHandwich at 08/12/09 11:07 AM SamburgerHandwich was starred

Monty
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
Seriously, do we want to have a definitive answer to this question? As it stands now, we are all playing on the darker side of this judicial swimming pool, and if we find out that there are sharks over here, do we want the sirens to go off? I know, my analogies suck worse than a Dyson, but sometimes it is better to not know the answer. As it stands, we can all pick up DVD copying software from outside the Red White and Blue and "rip and return" our Netflix queue. If we find out what we are doing is giving Uncle Sam a migraine it just won't be as much fun. Though, admittedly, it won't stop us.
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rgbyhkr
08/12/09

@Monty: It doesn't matter if a ruling were to come down on this against personal backups. The studios will NEVER enforce it. Why? Because that would finally bring long overdue attention to the garbage that is the DMCA. If they started suing Joe Sixpack for making backup DVD copies (not for distribution or making copies of rentals, just straight ripping of discs you own), the public outcry would finally force Comgress to repeal or substantially amend the DMCA. By going this route, they deprive users of easy tools from the likes of Real, Roxio, Apple, MSoft, etc. Without dead simple tools like that, your average consumer doesn't know how to rip movies and create their own movie jukeboxes. For the studios, this is the best solution - legal recourse without the kind of PR hit that the RIAA has given the music industry. It severely limits DVD ripping (vs CD ripping) and thus gives them more control of the marketplace.
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dsh
08/12/09

@rgbyhkr: I think you're, unfortunately, exaggerating the importance of this kind of ruling. The all-important 'Joe Sixpack'... well, he probably doesn't "rip movies" for his own "jukebox". He probably buys them, or gets them from netflix, watches them, and returns them.
We as nerds might have convinced ourselves that backing up movies and stuff is more common than it is. I don't think that's true, at least not outside of the subset of the population that is ALREADY enraged over the DMCA.
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rgbyhkr
08/12/09

@dsh: You're right, the avg Joe doesn't rip movies. But would they if the tools were freely available from mainstream players? I think that they would, just as many do now with CDs.
My point was that Joe Sixpack isn't even aware that the DMCA effectively differentiates your consumer rights on one 12cm silver disc vs. another. Movies effectively get more protection. If the studios started suing people for personal backups, the news stories might finally get people to notice. "Wait, you mean I can't copy a movie like I can a CD? Why the heck not?" You'd likely see stories about the cool things you can't do with movies that you have been able to do for years with music because of the law. As digital movie downloads and streaming start to become more common, people would wonder why they can't just use the disc they already paid for to put content on their portable device (especially as small HDD and SSD sizes grow).
By flying under the radar as it relates to consumer usage, the studios are avoiding further scrutiny of the special protection the DMCA gives them. It's a smart strategy because, as of now, the vast majority of people don't even know that there is a legal difference. At worst, they think that companies like Apple are trying to get them to buy downloaded movies from ITMS by not making DVD rips available in iTunes. They don't even realize what's behind it. I have no doubt that lawsuits against users would indeed get enough folks to stand up and take notice.
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Hectorvex
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
Another clear message set forth from a legal perspective on the strange and wonderful laws surrounding the distribution of copyrighted material. The motion picture lobby is strong, do not deny their supreme control!
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craig_16
08/12/09

In reply to Apparently, DVD Copying Software Is Illegal
If you buy a DVD, are you still breaking the law if you then go on to torrent that film so you can put it on your media player? Only reason I'm saying is because with the speed of modern connections, it's probably faster to download it than ripping the DVD.
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danger the pirate (now with google voice!) promoted this comment craig_16 was starred craig_16 was unstarred

danger the pirate
08/12/09

@craig_16: it takes me maybe 12 minutes to rip a dvd. thats with my shitty dvd drive. what are you smoking?
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anonymousryan
08/12/09

@craig_16: I don't think it's illegal to download, but with torrents you're uploading at the same time as you're downloading. Most lawsuits centered around people uploading (or making available for uploading) files to other users, not downloading.
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craig_16
08/12/09

@SewerShark: It varies between 16 and 20 mbit/s. The quality I get depends on the type of film. Sometimes a 700MB rip is adequate, which takes about 10 minutes if I get it through Rapidshare. A 4GB HD rip obviously takes a little longer, about an hour.
@danger the pirate (now with google voice!): It's marijana.
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danger the pirate
08/12/09

@craig_16: 16-20, damn. I'd still go with a rip, but i guess its just personal preference at that point.
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Kaiser-Machead
08/12/09

@craig_16: If you buy a DVD, why even waste time downloading a file that may very well be very inferior to what you already own? The speed of modern connections doesn't necessarily mean much for a P2P network, since the amount of leechers and seeders and active sources could make that all irrelevant.
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baltwade
04/29/09

In reply to RealNetworks Stumbles Into Court, This Box Hangs in the Balance
RIAA went after cassette tapes when they first came out and lost.

MPAA tried to stop VCR when they first came out and lost.

RIAA sued to stop CD ripping and lost.

How in the hell did the MPAA win at stopping DVD ripping?
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Kaiser-Machead
04/29/09

@baltwade: I think it's simple: Copy Protection. Fair use allows you to convert formats so long as there's no restrictions baked into them, but as most DVD's come with their own digital protections, it's illegal to circumvent it. Damn sonsabitches!
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