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bagellord
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
Saw this on slashdot. Anyways, UAC does not claim to provide any kind of anti-virus protection. It's to prevent people/programs from getting administrative privileges. Microsoft couldn't ship any kind of anti-virus with it or they'd get their butts sued. #windows7security
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V_T_S_2001
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
I'm a windows guy, and I caught VD after having unprotected sex with a random hooker, do mac users have the same problem?

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lostarchitect
11/05/09

@V_T_S_2001: No, our man units are made from impervious glass and aluminum. #windows7security
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b.r.crowther
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
Umm, if you take 10 viruses you know a system is not patched for and vulnerable to, and install them, what would you expect the result to be?

All the UAC is doing is asking you if you're sure you want to run it, you click yes it runs. But that's the whole point, it asks your grandma if she wants trojan.exe to run, and she should say "I don't know what trojan.exe is" and click NO.
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Joe St. Louis
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
I think people don't know the difference between malware and viruses... there are differences... #windows7security
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VenomIreland promoted this comment Joe St. Louis was starred Joe St. Louis was unstarred

VenomIreland
11/05/09

@Joe St. Louis: Well then, tell us the differences. #windows7security
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phor11
11/05/09

@VenomIreland: While a virus seeks to spread, spyware seeks to embed.

In other words, the difference between the two is replication.

Malware is an all-inclusive term that describes any harmful software (including both viruses and spyware).
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VenomIreland promoted this comment Edited by phor11 at 11/05/09 1:03 PM phor11 was starred phor11 was unstarred

VenomIreland
11/05/09

@phor11: Thanks! #windows7security
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Jagster
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
Breaking news: An executable written for Windows Vista/XP will most likely run in Windows 7.

Stop the presses!! #windows7security
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max11221
11/05/09

@Jagster: Its Rosa writing. Has to get in a shot at MS every day she can. Where is the article of MS killing kittens or not donating all their profit to a hospital somewhere?

FAIL. #windows7security
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Rosa Golijan
11/05/09

@max11221: Right here.

Other Microsoft mentions I've made are here, here, here, and here. #windows7security
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RT100
11/05/09

@Rosa Golijan: awesome.
I love how you actually respond in the comments, Rosa. I feel like you're a bigger part of the community than the rest of the editors.
Thanks #windows7security
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Rosa Golijan
11/05/09

@RT100: I do try to respond to as many as possible, but forgive me if you ever see me lapse. (Or just shoot me an email paging me to the thread) #windows7security
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max11221
11/06/09

@Rosa Golijan: Yeah thanks for supporting my point in two out of four of your posts of BS MS bashing...too bad you couldn't make it 4 of four but I guess you couldn't really find any way to twist Gates fighting malaria..though you did work it into the Apple glorification post you had. So your point is what I was saying? Nice. Thanks for proving my point!!!

Do I need to point out this one which would make it 3 for 5...as this one had no point either and you know it. The "testing" done in this post is an AD...to SELL ANTI-VIRUS ....but thanks for picking and AD and trying to make it "news" because it fits the MS bashing agenda.

No I didn't forget that you mentioned that a cougar was on the MS campus...and that means exactly what?? You mentioned MS and didn't bash them for once..wow...great..yet you post drivel like this as "news" when you know it is crap...but then it fits.

Thanks for proving my point by linking the bashing!!!
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Edited by max11221 at 11/06/09 2:26 AM max11221 was starred max11221 was unstarred

Rosa Golijan
11/06/09

@max11221: Wow. Youch.

I just provided the links, whether they were positive, neutral, or negative. If you or others feel they prove your opinions then that's ok, we don't have to agree, but can we please keep things civil and on topic from this point? #windows7security
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pete
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
Wait, an antivirus company said that people need antivirus software? Stop the presses. #windows7security
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NeoAkira promoted this comment pete was starred pete was unstarred

En0s1
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
You should always get in the habit of practicing safe computing. Sure a lot people are turned of by having to put up firewalls, anti-virus software, anti-spyware, and the like... but once you get used to it; it's not so bad.
We should all know better, especially when sharing with mulitple users. #windows7security
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CraigJ
11/05/09

I really don't understand this whole thing. I run NO Virus software on my system, and havent since the late 90's. I got a virus once, when my wife brought a floppy disk home from the college library, and that was a minor Word virus, so no more floppies from the school library, problem solved. Other than that, no viruses (I do scan about once every 6 months to be sure) and my systems are all hooked up to the Internet full time behind a firewill with very liberal settings, I might add.

How do people end up with a bunch of viruses in the first place?

I'm generally not a fan of conspiracies, but I can't get past the fact that this is a huge revenue stream for McAfee and Norton, and I know that it's been discussed before, but I can't help but wonder if these companies don't pay guys in Russia and elsewhere to develop "experimental self-replicating applications"

Safe computing means not opening shit from unknown sources, know where you're going on the Internet, and not being stupid. It doesn't mean wasting a bunch of CPU cycles running crapware to scan all my files and downloads. #windows7security
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nutbastard promoted this comment CraigJ was starred CraigJ was unstarred

nutbastard
11/05/09

@CraigJ:

"How do people end up with a bunch of viruses in the first place? "

by clicking on thing's that they shouldn't. i have a friend that's a fucking expert at contracting viruses. he'll download software from ANYWHERE.

you dont need anti virus if you're careful and informed about what you are downloading. stick to open source for all your little free software needs. everything else, buy from a reputable company. voila. #windows7security
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Xagest
11/05/09

@CraigJ:
Porn video codecs

It's really awkward having to fix my dad's computer all the time #windows7security
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psychiccheese
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
This means absolutely nothing. Using a mac, I could find a malicious program, download and run it. OH NOES! Macs are vulnerable to stupidity too!

This simply means that 8/10 virus writers write code that doesn't require administrator privileges and code that is up to Windows specifications. Why can't everyone write code like that? #windows7security
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Zoolook
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
Breaking News! Windows 7 doesn't increase your IQ... if you were stupid enough to download and execute malicious code in Windows XP, you'll still be stupid enough to do it in Windows 7... #windows7security
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nutbastard promoted this comment Zoolook was starred Zoolook was unstarred

jayteemo
11/05/09

@Zoolook: promoted!
.... if i could. #windows7security
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nutbastard
11/05/09

@jayteemo:

i got yer back #windows7security
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emag
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
Nice job on the totally misleading headline.

Those aren't viruses -- they're user-installed programs that USERS explicitly downloaded, then explicitly installed (with the exception of the W32/Autorun entires). None of these have anything to do with firewalls or patching.

Do you want Windows to enforce a blacklist of programs that users are not allowed to install/run, then put the onus on Microsoft to keep that list up to date? That's the only way to stop users from downloading and running the "Mal" and "Troj" entries above.

The W32/Autorun "viruses" are the only ones that propogate themselves automatically (through the sharing of removable media). One could argue that that should be prohibited by the OS but only if one is willing to state that autorun is categorically bad (I've disabled autorun/autoplay since Windows 95). #windows7security
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adamhunterpeck
11/05/09

@emag: How do you disable autorun for USB drives? #windows7security
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Thee Sea
11/05/09

@emag: Thank you for having a brain. #windows7security
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MosesMonster
11/05/09

@emag: On the money. And it's not just people who "have a brain." The average user isn't going to encounter these viruses unless seeking them out or running into them by searching on malware-infested sites. Most modern web browsers have a black list of sites and prevent the user from entering a site without discretion. #windows7security
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geowrian
11/05/09

@emag: Actually, your assumption is misleading. The "viruses" are programs that users can install. However, it also means they can be installed by unprivileged users (VERY bad for businesses, and still not good for home users), or via other flaws. For instance, a security issue in Acrobat Reader or Flash could install one of these in the background without the user doing or knowing anything. This is a huge concern, and a large part of UAC is to help prevent issues like that, but it does not seem to have much affect. #windows7security
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emag promoted this comment geowrian was starred geowrian was unstarred

emag
11/05/09

@geowrian:

"Installation" has a specific meaning in Windows. Downloading a stand-alone .exe and running it from your desktop is not "installing" it as the term is normally understood.

What could Microsoft possibly do to protect users in your scenario, apart from 1) prohibiting the installation of Acrobat Reader or Flash, even as an administrator and 2) prohibiting non-administrators from running code not explicitly installed/approved by an administrator?

Neither of those actions is even plausible for a consumer operating system. #windows7security
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nutbastard
11/05/09

@adamhunterpeck:

use your google. it's likely simple. #windows7security
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geowrian
11/05/09

@emag: You can't stop "stupid", as it's been said. However, you can minimize the risk in ways that Linux and OS X have done. Additionally, common sense items such as requiring user-interaction before a program can perform certain actions such as put itself in startup should be required. UAC did help with this, but it went overboard in Vista - causing prompts for actions that didn't post a large security risk. Windows 7 is definitely better with the number of prompts. That said, placing items in start up locations should require some user interaction. If a user then says "Yes, I want this to run on startup", it is there own fault. If something tries to exploit a flaw in another software, it will not be able to go into affect after a reboot without the user agreeing to run it at startup. #windows7security
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emag
11/05/09

@geowrian: Good point on the start-up issue.

That said, how have "Linux" and OS X minimized the risk, particularly with regard to this attack vector? #windows7security
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geowrian
11/06/09

@emag: Thanks. Rereading my post, I must have been more tired than I thought since I had so many grammatical errors.

OS X lets certain features be locked with the username/password for the user. Linux has various security enhancements such as SELinux. Also many Linux distributions have the ability to run a program as root for only a predetermined time. Eliminating the multiple prompts when a number of changes need to be made, but running with the necessary permissions when needed. Also, the ability to grant sudo permissions by application, path, etc. comes in handy if a user needs to be able to have root permissions but only within a predetermined scope.

Additionally, although not user-friendly, it is possible to boot an OS X or Linux install without loading components that may have been modified by a virus. In Windows, a rootkit or even anything running via userinit or winlogon, or any boot drivers will run in all startup options - even all safe modes. Once an infection is placed into those areas, it is possible for the malware to keep itself there until a) the system is wiped and reinstalled, or b) a boot disk is used to cleanup the infection and remove startup references to the infection. I know this is a compeltely different issue, but I wish it was something Windows could do as it is invaluable value-add. #windows7security
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krztov
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
i had to explain to a friend who hates windows that in this day and age you basically have to be an idiot to get loaded with viruses in windows, that includes xp, just keep a decent antivirus running, avg, avira, you choose. and dont open random exe files that are 300k.

heres a good rule if you do any nzb stuff, if you see an album thats normally 100mb and theres a listing thats an exe and 3mb, DONT GET IT.. :) #windows7security
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Eulatos
11/05/09

@krztov: Unfortunately that is not the case. One of the big ones going around right now comes from ads, and the first thing it does it disable all of your av and antispyware .exe files, even avast and norton.

Anyone can get it, look at all the people who got hit from this site last week by that exact thing. #windows7security
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krztov
11/05/09

@Eulatos: but the frequency isnt as high as most people like to say, i mean 90% of what the mac vs pc commercials say is total bs. I didnt get hit with the site last week, but again that was stupidity from launching an exe wasnt it? I run adblock plus on all sites except gawker ones because it breaks the formatting when theres the article looking ad. #windows7security
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Eulatos
11/05/09

@krztov: No, it has nothing to do with launching an exe. The malware launches itself and you get a pop up that says its scanning for viruses. Then you get about 15 viruses and just an un-measureable amount of malware.

My weekends have been filled recently with removing this thing from my clients computers. All these computers were protected by norton or avast which promptly got disabled.

Again this skewed ideal that because you a seasoned computer user doesnt get it means nothing. Most people are not seasoned computer users, they dont know wtf adblock is, they use internet explorer because they think its the ONLY way to get to the internet. Most people are nothing like the people on this site. Hence why most people's computers are full of viruses and spyware.
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jepzilla promoted this comment Edited by Eulatos at 11/05/09 11:08 AM Eulatos was starred Eulatos was unstarred

jepzilla
11/05/09

@Eulatos: The problem is, what you are describing is a social engineering attack. It's not attempting to surreptitiously hijack your computer, it's attempting to trick the user into giving away control.

Suggesting that operating systems are responsible for allowing infections of the sort you are describing, or of the sort Sophos tried, is akin to suggesting that banks are responsible for the 419 scams and ponzi schemes their clients fall for. #windows7security
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deciBels
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
I always use protection. I dont want any Windows 8, 9, or 10s running around. #windows7security
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MacAttack7388
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
Should I point out how many viruses a clean Snow Leopard install is vulnerable to?

(Oh, what have I done?)
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Thee Sea promoted this comment Edited by MacAttack7388 at 11/05/09 10:10 AM MacAttack7388 was starred MacAttack7388 was unstarred

Thee Sea
11/05/09

@MacAttack7388: Cool, want to point out what system gets compromised first at pretty much any security convention? #windows7security
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daniel006
11/05/09

@Thee Sea: [blogs.zdnet.com] Read for yourself.
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icmoloko
11/05/09

@Thee Sea: Security conventions, right... Win does so much better in real life!
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Thee Sea
11/05/09

@daniel006: Uh... what? No. That's an Op Ed piece where the author posits an opinion as fact. #windows7security
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Thee Sea
11/05/09

@icmoloko: The only reason Windows doesn't perform better is because they can't rely on security through obscurity like Macs do. #windows7security
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MacAttack7388
11/05/09

@Thee Sea: If you're trying to make a statement, do you hack the thing that a 15 year old could hack, or the computer people have placed on a pedestal? #windows7security
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Thee Sea
11/05/09

@MacAttack7388: They aren't just trying to make statements. Not only that, but you still haven't shown anything. Macs are NOT secure. They rely entirely on security through obscurity, which is not true security at all. #windows7security
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Mikestan
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
"Windows 7 is out and it's not going to have any of the problems my last operating system had, trust me."

-PC #windows7security
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OCEntertainment
11/05/09

In reply to Out-Of-The-Box Windows 7 Install Is Vulnerable To 8 out of 10 Viruses Tested
USB stick: Come on, baby. You know I'm clean. I've only ever been plugged into one or two computers. And those were Macs.

Windows 7: Look, buddy. It's a firewall, or we don't interface. That simple. #windows7security
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PurpleMonkeyDishwasher:
11/05/09

@OCEntertainment: Windows 7: Well, I'll consider it if you Safely remove hardware before you start transferring your files.
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OCEntertainment promoted this comment Edited by PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: at 11/05/09 10:19 AM

Mike Zuniga: That was Unexpected
11/05/09

@PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: : HEY, not on the desktop! I'm doing stuff tonight! #windows7security
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BartholomewHapidooya
11/05/09

@OCEntertainment: what are you, USB 3.0? You downloaded in like 5 seconds.
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