LaneKollina

Can't compete? You should check the American car industry for a reality check, I think. Europe is doing pretty good. Norway is doing fantastic.

digidandy

I would like Jobs to retaliate. He should sell the DRM'd songs for the still reasonable $0.99 and the no DRM'd songs for $2.99. Then tell the Norwegians good luck! Those who buy the Apple proprietary license songs will get a discount of $2 per song. Let see those douche bags legislate around that...

jcc123

Falconfire

The chief competitor for iTunes Store was not the Microsoft based PlaysForSure stores or even Zune stores. It's KaZaA, Limewire, bittorrent, and others. Now by basically stopping the sale of the largest store, everyone who would've purchased music online would just pirate it instead.

Sure iTunes Store music and videos are crippled - but it shows people are willing to pay for music legally. And the iTunes Store is relatively young so it hasn't quite worked out everything. For example, if you want other store support on the iPod, guess what - it means even MORE DRM to the point we're every DRM system will start to require play counting, no CD burning, etc.

Since the iTunes Store doesn't really make too much money selling music, Apple can probably exit Europe and let piracy once again take over. The right time to regulate online music sales is when piracy isn't the main competitor and iTunes Store becomes the largest of the lot. Not when piracy is still a viable option for a number of people.

Worf

1. cell phones? you buy a ringtone that cant be transferred to other services. you bought it legally why can you transfer? you buy a charger with every new cell shouldnt they all be the same?

2. Xbox/ps2? You bought the "game", why cant arent they the same format?

There are many other service and companies that target their items specifically to their main product. People going to itunes know that they are for ipods. If they wanted to get another format they can via other sites.

Spyderdude

What kind of whale?

lettuce

No, I just think closing options is dumb. I dont buy off the shelf PC's, because they never really cater to what I want, as well as I like full control over every component (i.e. an 80GB hard drive is not enough of a description, I want brand names and model numbers). And no, the Zune isnt right for me either. The two MP3 players I have ever owned have been ones from neither company - a Creative MuVo 128MB, and a Meizu M6 Miniplayer 4GB. I clearly said in my first post that Microsoft is not perfect, and that I was only responding to the ignorant post above me. Activation aside, if you cannot see that Apple has a more restrictive stance on how you use its software, then I don't know what else to say. That said, I think this conversation has gone off topic enough for this thread for something that just started as a response to someone's general observation of Apple and Microsoft.

bignaz2k

AKIRAx29

All the other things are correct.

digidandy

Have you ever installed MacOS on a non Mac PC? Enjoy your hardware level activation.

Uh...no. That's the point. There is no 'calling-home' activation. One copy to one machine, etc...

I love how 'sysadmins' [g] like you bitch and moan about Apple and DRM and blah blah blah, then turn around and fawn over the Zune, or MS in general. Microsoft created the blueprint by which other DRM/activation schemes are built (not on a tech level, but a business-plan level).

Of course when it's Microsoft, they can do no wrong. And you know damn well if MS had the iPod and the iTMS, half of you dimwits wouldn't bat an eyelash - because MS is so 'great.'

Apple, by no means, is perfect - far from it - but thinking that A. Inc is somehow more restrictive in it's software is probably the funniest thing I've read on the internets in 07 -- and that's no small feat.

Dancing Milkcarton

My PSP only accepts sony memory stick and UMD! Those should be illegal.

My HDDVD player only accepts properly coded and protected movies, those should be illegal.

Lets just say anything proprietary has to be illegal and get rid of just about all new innovation.

whats the problem, you know its drm'd! you know it only works on an apple product. what about audiobook companies that their drm only works on certain products. my palm software only works on my palm and not on my pocket pc. lets make both of those illegal... if you dont want drm, dont buy from apple, but hte damn cd, problem solved!

Hoffen

Beautiful women, universal health care, no dependency on foreign oil, polar bears roaming the streets, and now no iTunes. What more can you ask for from a country?

lettuce

bitfactory says:
This is a joke, right? Have you installed any OS software? Certainly not any Apple OS. Enjoy your 'activation.'

Have you ever installed MacOS on a non Mac PC? Enjoy your hardware level activation.

bignaz2k

Panhandler

DashTheHand

I dont know why you say that is very "Microsoft" of them, when that is just typical Apple behavior. I'm not saying Microsoft is perfect, but at least you have a lot more freedom with its products to do what you want.

This is a joke, right? Have you installed any OS software? Certainly not any Apple OS. Enjoy your 'activation.'

Dancing Milkcarton

Paul

I see you're point about a vertical monopoly.

I think it's close, but it's not quite there. If the Ipod only played itunes music, then it would be a little closer. But overall, a lot of companies have partial vertical monopolies. For example, unless they are modified, only a Toyota bumper will fit on a damaged Toyota.

As for the example of Ford only making cars that run on Ford gas; I'd be fine with that. There are 30 other car manufacturers who would be more than happy to sell you a car that runs on standard gas. In aec007's words, "the dollar$" would do the talking. Ford would be in a deeper whole than they already are.

As for the CD example, dollar$ also solved that one. Remember Sony's minidisk? Unless I'm mistaken, they released a CD that could only be played on their players. We all know what happened to that, and government had nothing to do with it.

The MS example is a little better, but it's not quite the same. The difference is that MS is close to having a horizontal and vertical monopoly. In that situation, consumers really don't have a choice, so therefore the government should step in.

I guess what really irks me about this is that there are plenty of people who don't have a huge problem with the DRM, and for all of the others, there are plenty of other choices available. I guess what it comes down to is that I hate government taking choices away from people.

aec007: Despite your sarcasm, that's exactly how business works. Once your ROI on whatever you are doing decreases below your preset threshold, you change your strategy or leave the market. Take a look at the 10000s of products that fail every year.

The Hoff

With the MASSIVE decline of sales in iTunes and related sites that have DRM, it all bound to implode very, very soon.

you mean this http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-6143555.html decline in iTunes sales that was proven to be completely false.

Falconfire

You're right about the rat feces....There are "acceptable levels" in my hotdogs...

I know that the DRM issue does not apply to public health. But I believe that Apple's "vertical monopoly" on the iPod is an unfair business practice.

Its like saying, that Fords can only use Ford brand Gas, or that if Apple made CD Players, that only Apple-branded music could play in it.

Apple can get away with its attempt at a vertical monopoly on the Apple Desktop because it has 5% of the marketshare, the iPod on the other case has much wider share!

Could you imagine if MS tried to do the stuff that Apple does with its desktops? Yeah, MS strongarmed the manufacturers, but the never forced them to put a Microsoft-Only-Chip on the motherboard!

Inigo Montoya

With the MASSIVE decline of sales in iTunes and related sites that have DRM, it all bound to implode very, very soon.

Let your dollar$ do the talking!... they are going to finaly "GET IT" very soon.

Keep it up folks!, by this time next year with the decline in sales they will be barely able to operate. In the mean time, don't buy anything with DRM, buy some CD's rip DRM free (as I do).

Apple's server farm needed to maintain iTunes service and music collection is surely spending several 1000's of kilowatts per hr @ roughly 10¢/KW. Thar's one hell of electric bill to pay plus the lease/loan on all the hardware and tech support and music royalties.

At the rate they are loosing sales... please, the last one out, turn off the light.

Coitus DRM!

aec007

I'm not saying to get rid of all government regulation. There is a line that must be drawn. This is completely different than rat feces in your food for the following reasons:

1. You don't know that there are rat feces in your food.

2. There are mass public health effects to poor food quality.

3. People often did not have a choice whether to buy sanitary or unsanitary food, except for the extremely wealthy.

None of those conditions apply to itunes:

1. You know you're getting DRM. Apple does not hide it.

2. There are no large scale health effects on population.

3. There are many options available other than itunes - ie. CDs. And Apple goes so far as to let you burn CDs if you wanted to get around the DRM.

Obviously industry is in it for money and their own self interest. That is what business is all about!!! Do you go to work for free?

My point is, in this situation, as in most situations, the market solves problems much better than government. Just take a look at any industry case study from the USSR.

In this case, if people really didn't want DRM, and if it was so terribly bad, they would either buy CDs or chose from one of the many other online music retailers. Apple's iTunes sales show that it really wasn't that big of an issue for most consumers. This is a perfect example of government twisting the wrist of industry, and the only thing it leads to is less innovation.

The Hoff

media_lush

If people didn't want to buy meat that was unsanitary and covered in rat feces, the people would stop buying meat. Industries always self-regulate for the best of the people!

Please, industry is always in it for the money and for their own self interest. It took the government to regulate the meatpacking industry with the FDA to get rat feces out of your food.

Inigo Montoya

These jerkoffs spend all day filing suits against grandmothers, limiting the fair use rights of millions of content purchasers, and doing anything they can to maintain their Monty Burns-like grip on a dying music distribution network that lets fat, middle aged white guys dictate what's "hip" to 11 year old girls.

At every opportunity where a consumer is given a "choice", they kick these idiots in the balls. Satellite Radio ? 1000x better than "Free FM". iTunes and on-line music sales ? Took off faster than anyone ever imagined.

The consumers want open-source and hate DRM and eventually, DRM will die. I don't know one person intent on "pirating" that is slowed down even a second by DRM. The only people it hurts are legitimate purchasers.

elvindeath

1) Allow the other manufacturers of MP3 players to patch their firmware to accept Fairplay and allow it to play the iTunes music.

2) Apple should support music from other sources, Napster etc.

3) Microsoft should do the same with the Zune (but could still make the 3-play shared music Zune-only to not infringe on licenses)

Inigo Montoya

If people REALLY disliked itunes DRM, they would stop buying music from itunes. Then their revenue would drop, and it would send a strong signal to apple that they need to change their model. That is how capitalism works.

People don't like DRM, but apparently they don't hate it that much if they keep purchasing itunes music. It's not like apple has a monopoly on music distribution (CDs still exist, and there are a number of other online music stores).

I really hope laws like this DON'T get passed in the US. As much as some people might not like it, the free market usually solves most problems.

I hope Apple pulls iTunes out of the Norwegian market.

The Hoff

Its as if a cop pulled you over for going 50 miles a hour on a 35 mile a hour road in a car that can only do 0 or 50 because the manufacturers made it that way.

Like or hate Apple all you want, but all this did was ban iTunes. Music continues to have DRM, only now its the DRM of a convicted monopolist that it has. Sure you might not think that matters, since Microsoft license out the DRM, but what happens when it decided to move the Zune out there, and close Playsforsure since stores that use it compete against the Zune?

Same situation with a company not adverse to paying off governments, and who has a history of paying off European countries to varying results. Yep this was a blow against capitalism.... my ass.

Falconfire

Fairplay, while not perfect, is the best out there. The ability to burn and re-rip songs allows a simple (yet cumbersome) way to free the music.

I'd love to see apple get rid of its DRM, but I just don't see the labels allowing it.

alywa

(for the chicks)

nzruss

achilles

rg4vr

Inigo Montoya

I dont know why you say that is very "Microsoft" of them, when that is just typical Apple behavior. I'm not saying Microsoft is perfect, but at least you have a lot more freedom with its products to do what you want. Windows OS can be installed on practically any system of your choosing (including ones you build yourself), Windows Mobile can run any program you find online or code yourself using .NET, PlayForSure (yes, despite the fact that Microsoft turned its back on it and its partners) can be played on any number of players made by different manufacturers. These are just a few examples, all of which exhibit how Apple takes a more restrictive path in each of those areas (operating systems, mobile platforms, music).

In short, that was very "Apple" of you to make that comment. (sorry, couldn't resist)

bignaz2k

Teebo

Amsterdaam