the word you want is xenophobes

and were not as ignorant and backwards as it looks. theres just a few loud mouths that make us look bad

nova

P.S. 3: sorry for my terrible english :S and thanks again...

pedrombracho

pues al parecer nadie que escribio aqui es de venezuela.. yo si. soy de valencia, venezuela y quiero dejarles bien claro que primero, chavez y sus politicas no son venezuela, segundo, en una zona de puerto libre (isla de margarita) hay un apple store (macstorevenezuela.com) y que alli puedes conseguirlas casi al mismo precio q en estados unidos..la pequeña diferencia es, q como dije antes es una isla, y q para llegar a esa isla por avion, al menos desde valencia (desde caracas no es muy diferente) hacen falta unos 250 o 300 dolares y en barco, tienes q llegar al puerto, que esta en pto la cruz q en carro son como 10 horas, mas las 3 horas q se tarda el ferry??? en conclusion.. si, son politas de luijos y superlujos q este gobierno implanto.. pero tampoco creo q no se pueda llegar a un acuerdo.. todo se soluciona hablando.. creo q nada cuesta a un representante grande de apple inc. venir a venezuela (por poner a mi pais como ejemplo) a una cita con un ministro de hacienda o algo asi (no se mucho de politica), discutir las caracteristicas de estos productos que hacen q se destaquen por su diferneciacion y llegar a un acuerdo.. es cierto que aqui en latinoamerica se piratea mucho la info.. pero el hardware no.. hay imitaciones.. pero hay MUCHA gente que con estas restricciones cuentan con ipods, y eso es aqui, en una ciudad en el interior del pais.. ni te cuento en ccs.. y eso es igual con las imacs y macbooks..es una relacion ganar ganar... a apple le conviene porque es un VASTO mrcado.. no soy chavista ni apoyo a chavez para nada, pero en este pais hay DINERO de sobra.. mas q todo por corrupcion, pero lo hay... entonces apple?creo q podemos llegar a un acuerdo.
P.D. 1 : podrian empezar con los juegos para el ipod q se nos resulta IMPOSIBLE adquirir :s.. saludos y me lleno de orgullo al ver que GIZMODO se acordo de nosotros aca abajo,, y si, tenemos derecho!! ya basta!! q una iMac de 20" te la vendan por 7.500.000 bolivares (3500 dolares) es un abuso!!! y bueno con respecto a los comentarios rascistas y xenofobicos.. los dejos q sigan en su mundo de ignorancia y retroceso hacia el mundo globalizado..

pedrombracho

Second, Argentina has no iPods there (and this must be the case) not because taxes, but because people still buy things at ridiculously high prices just to get some status quo.

Have you tried Panama? Electronics and such are cheaper there (au pair with the States in most cases).

whiskey

why would i need to wash my mouth out with soap.
i voiced my opinion.
i said i hated apple.
tell me, how does this affect you? oh yeh, it doesnt. go away...

nova

Macflier

@pangelboy: wow...sorry to piss you off...Your level of Apple zealotry is off the charts. Jobs is fooling you into believing that you are a part of a computing revolution, so you would blindly buy his products.

@desimal: Wow..."you are dumb, shut up" is all you can say. You should write Steve Jobs, and ask him to make an iDebate gizmo, that teaches people like you how to have a conversation with people you disagree with, while hiding the fact that you have an IQ of Zero.

You should also ask him to make an iTolerance gizmo, a device that teaches you how to stop being a bigot.

nytimer

jbelkin

One thing I think it might be great here in Mexico , is to open an iTUNES store for downloading music, because first you don't only make Mexicans happier, you will start ceasing the huge piracy problem that Mexico is facing right now and well It will be cheaper to spend $10 pesos ( a dollar )for each song you download than spending $500 pesos ($50 USD) for the whole record and then only ripping 2 or 3 songs from that record.

Domogeek

How does a five year old like yourself keep getting onto the forum?

Please go tell mommy that you're being a bad little boy with the InterWeb again, and go wash your mouth out with soap.

If you keep this up, Santa won't bring you any presents, and your face will freeze in an ugly grimace one day.

Oppps, too late!

DrD

beathyate

But allmost everybody in Latin America Prefer Cheap prices/products, this is no market for Fashionable electronics.

BTW i love Apple products

Aberracus

Let's analyse why an iPod costs about $328 in Brasil:

1) Take the advertised US price
2) add 28% Import taxes (II)
3) add 10% Taxes on Industrial goods (IPI)
4) add 18 % taxes for consumer and services goods (depends on the state, here it is 18%)
note: these taxes are cumulative
5) add all these taxes on shipping costs and on Customs wharehousing
6) Inclue some more taxes such as PIS and COFINS

Now, think of the average storage time and equivalent devaluation of the invested money (a current account yields abut 1% a month -- borrwing is at least 78% a year).
Factor-in currency exchange fluctuation, and you'll see that the price isn't all that bad. Especially if you consider that you have to add Sales Tax to the US advertised price ;-)

The way out? Apple builds an iPod manufacturing plant in Manaus (tax free zone).

Writing an article is eas- peasy. Writing a good article requires some basic research.

JustinCase

Sorry about that, the forum is way long.
Ok, Im from COSTA RICA, as tech-shitty as it can get. The article is all wrong. Ill try to make it quick.

1-"there are almost no shops in the continente" WRONG
In shitty countries you can get Ipods, mobiles, PS3s or Wiis in a million diferent PLACES. It would just be more expensive cause (price+ship+taxes)

2-"doesn't have any official Apple representation in the country"
WRONG
Apple has 3 OFFICIAL stores here. Well, someone bought the franchise for Costa Rica.

If you need your WARRANTY, you must pay the store $50 and they send it to the US and from there it works the same as in the US. Those $50 basically buy your Ipod a plane ticket.

SebastianArias

I did happen to find an Apple Authorized Reseller down there though.

Bill

Mike918

hazaelox

Your grasp on logic is weak; you remind me of every English teacher/professor I've ever had.

You don't need evidence to support the supposition that Apple pushes the iPod as the 'ticket to cool'. It's how every product we buy, from shoes to cars, is marketed. No one is going to want to buy a product tha's marketed as making you look like a tool.

The massive gap in your reasoning is your assertion that Apple is making this cool exclusive to white North Americans. How and why would Apple doe this?

wikkit

quikboy

The fact that you had to type "implies" so many times must say something about your idiotic assumptions about Apple.

pangelboy

You can say "I don't like Mexico" all day long, no problem. But stating that "Mexico sucks!" is a different story. How can you pretend that Mexicans (I, for one) will not get offended with your comment?

BTW, you suck! (no reason really, I just don't like you, no offense)

ricvilla

desimal

the real question is who really cares... unless latin america can address DRM issues, my relatives in argentina are going to have the same problems that they could live without...

Its for their own good. besides they got fake IPODs in TJ, buy that!

Which came first the IPOD or the ITUNES?

BTW, mexico sucks! (no reason really, i just don't like mexico, no offense)

desimal

My evidence is:

1)The "think different" campaign
2)The "you are cool if you buy an iPod" campaign
3)the use of the letter "i" in apple products implies a selfish attitude of "this is mine and not yours, and I'm not sharing"
4)The "Made in California" statement on Apple products, which implies that this is not made in 3rd world countries, because 3rd world country products are not cool. on the other hand California is cool.

So basically I was making fun of the warped view his peddling, by suggesting the you can't be brown and be a part of the Apple elite.

nytimer

My 2 cents: it is actually very easy to buy an iPod in Mexico. All they have to do is visit deremate.com.mx, which is equivalent to ebay.com (http://listado.deremate.com.mx/ipod)

ricvilla

grey market heaven it is...

kanevarius

Dancing Milkcarton

Rsquare

The whole system here is to fleece the cunsumer. The gov't and big retail rule all. There is not even a hope of thinking about changing it either. Nobody fights for what we (in North America) take for granted.

Around here you are delighted to pay way too much for most import things. You're just happy you can get them. All the rest (return policies, discounts, accessories, etc) if you can find them, is bonus.

underrun

Now that's settled, let's talk about Apple/iPods/random electronic imported stuff.

It is true that getting an ipod the completely legal way(imported by apple or one of its official distributors) is expensive. Customs tax in this country are high and are surrounded by a bunch of ugly red-tape policies that all they do is help illegal imports get their way to the market. You also have to add the seller's profit and that makes numbers grow.
Even though it is not the usual thing, it is normally cheaper (but really really complicated) to get your own stuff through internet than buying it here in stores for two reasons:
1)You might be lucky and not get robbed by customs.
2)Even if customs put their hands in your pockets, it is usually cheaper than buying it from a store.

Of course, the completely legal way of getting an iPod is not the most usual way.
Most of the iPod-selling stores sell those at prices that are closer to what you can see in USA. I can get an 80gb iPod for $400. $50 is not that much of a difference.
All this stuff is introduced to the country without paying any taxes (probably bribing a customs officer) and are sold by small stores or people around forums. The big problem with this system is warranty and support.

As the product is not introduced to the country legally, most of the companies do not provide support if it was not bought legally. The solution is generally a "no questions asked" return policy. If the product has a failure it is inmediately exchanged for another one. If they don't do this, it is easy to go the "AFIP"(the ones that collect our taxes) to make them disappear. Most seller's wouldn't risk it.

It is funny to notice that most people does not know their iPod was brought to the country without paying taxes. All they see is... Expensive vs Cheaper. The decision is obvious.
This applies to almost everything related to consumer electronics and gadgets. Truth be told, if it wasn't for dirty customs officers, most of the stuff wouldn't be seen here in the first place. Of course, it is a double-edged sword: prices are low in relation to what the official importer can achieve. This makes for less official support in the country.

Also, getting really new gadgets can be a pain in the ass, especially when it comes to hot gadgets like a Wii or a PS3 which are hard to get there in the States. Prices are quite high until everything settles down.

In conclusion:
In what relates to gadgets and stuff, it sucks to live here, but it is not as bad as it looks like. We manage to get things somehow and it could definitely be worse.

Ah, I almost forgot. One tiny detail: MacStation is the only Apple-controlled official importer and distributor, but there are some others (Like Maxim, for example) that import apple products legally through customs. MacStation is not the only way to get Apple products in a completely legal way.

Ikario

Rando

hughjass

1. It is at least an exaggeration to state, as JAG42 does, that the "culture" is the problem, or that there is a significant socialist streak bent on nationalization of everything. Sorry, that's false. Besides Venezuela, the only other countries in that direction are Ecuador and Bolivia, very small economies.

2. iPods are leisure appliances, not essential to anyone. Even if they would cost as in the States, $150 is a month's income for many families. Only the middle classes, and then some, could actually buy those items; this means, countries like Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, are those in position to be interesting as potential markets for Apple, or any other electronics vendor.

3. Apple is upscale, so to speak. No matter how many iPod has it sold, it is still a company with large margins and interested in maintaining them. That demands a rather large piece of the pie, at least for Apple to decide that an actual presence in the market, instead of just using resellers, would be economically sensible.

4. Considering that those that are actually potential buyers of Apple's products are also people in position to travel or to have relatives and friends traveling to the USA, it is actually easier for them to buy upscale commodities like the iPod in the USA, for use in a Latin American country. That would leave those not able to travel to buy the items, and they don't have the money. Pure and simple.

5. Apple left most of Latin America when Jobs came back, as one of many cost-cutting measure. My country, Peru, had an Apple representative till 1997, but after that, only authorized resellers. If you want to buy a Mac, you have two routes: buy it yourself in the States (as I've done) or go through a local reseller, in charge of service. Either way, if a problem arises with the computer, you'll have to solve it locally, with a reseller. I've been quite lucky so far to get splendid service. Good for me, good for the reseller, good for Apple, selling the small amount of computers they are interested in selling here, and not "wasting" money with formal presence that will probably offset the situation. No Apple Store in Buenos Aires? Pity, but from Apple's perspective, it is not a market that demands such kind of presence.

evillan

grey market heaven

kanevarius

mcsey

DRoberts

According to a friend in Colombia, the dearth of all Apple products in South America is primarily due to the combination of taxes and protecting smaller businesses.

Many governments view computers as luxury items that few citizens can actually afford - and to a large degree thet are correct. So the wealthy can afford to pay a premium as a "voluntary tax." Of course, this excise tax only makes it harder for the ordinary person to afford a computer, but...

And many of the S.A. governments work very hard to foster and promote small businesses. So when Apple wanted to alter its distribution to reflect the way the do it up north, they ran into a number of obstacles. A number of their partners have exclusivity agreements and protected regions, which meant Apple couldn't open up a store across the street (or on the Internet). And if they did, they'd still have to pay the partner, even if he didn't sell anything. And when you stop to consider, it was these small resellers who worked long and hard to establish Apple in these countries, and it really isn't fair that Apple now come in and put them out of business.

It's a double-edged sword. You end up paying 10% to 30% more for your Mac or iPod. On the other hand, when something goes wrong you don't end up on hold while the Customer Service rep in Bangalore transfers your call to repair center in Tegucigalpa. You call up your reseller and he sends a service tech over to fix your machine. And if your Video iPod has to go out for service they'll probably loan you a G4 they have kicking around the back room.

Or you can buy it from the Apple Store at the mall and have them tell you you have to make an appointment, even if you bought AppleCare. They'll be with you in 4 hours.

imajoebob

laFanfaSkali

The guy at HQ simply replied back "You really want to know? It will take several days to explain all the taxes and other laws you have to jump through".

So it's more a regulatory thing - there are so many oddball taxes and duties that have to be paid that just keeping up with them is an exercise in futility.

Worf

froggy

yes - the 2.50 cents/hr they export doing work most americans or the beggars on the streets wouldn't even touch really makes an impact on this economy. the fact that they work for so cheap allows the producer to sell your veggies at the price you're buying them at - else you'd be paying 3x the price if he'd have to pay full wages with insurance, health benefits, and luxury jacht pensions unions demand... you're reaping the benefits they offer without even realizing.

Michael

soft_guy

raybon

The result of Apple having no presence in countries like Brazil - which is a huge market -, Venezuela, Chile and Argentina - and other countries through the world - is exactly the situation described in the article. Too high prices, no technical support, consumers on their own. It's the same for other companies, like Dell, HP, Nintendo and Sony (a Mexican reader from Gizmodo Spanish points out that a Wii costs 500USD and the PS3, 1300USD, for example).

In other words: the whole point of the article is that Apple customers in these countries feel abandoned and on their own, with no local commercial or technical support from their fab company, which, for whatever reasons, prefers to ignore these markets.

Jesus Diaz

Churrito

froggy

@nytimer - Are you an idiot, or do you just enjoy making logicless inflamatory remarks? Do you really think that in a world economy a company the size of Apple decided not to sell in South America becuase of the "Browns"?

@zarchitect - Your argument would hold more water if it didn't sound like you just pulled numbers out of your butt to make a point.

@homsar - I agree that Venezuela is unstable with its inferiority complex and oil wealth, but Venezuela isn't the whole of South America.

Apple's products are luxury items. As the head of a large company, I'd have to seriously ponder the market for a product in a particular country before shelling out the costs for a distribution infrastructure. Additionally, as the article points out, taxes and tariffs can be major obstacles to importing a product.

The comments on Giz seem to be getting progressively more and more politically polarized....

wikkit

jloyola

...and $149 for a 2GB player here is a bargain? ;^)

Nyle

Steve "Jalapeno" Jobs

Hah.. that's funny shite right there.

DeadPlasmaCell

EMoShunz

firetwuck

Also that Steve Jobs is just doing whats best for Apple's bottom line. It's nothing against any race, there are just a lot of costs for entering the South American market. So stop giving him crap, it's just business.

Stevenj

JAG42

yes - the 2.50 cents/hr they export doing work most americans or the beggars on the streets wouldn't even touch really makes an impact on this economy. the fact that they work for so cheap allows the producer to sell your veggies at the price you're buying them at - else you'd be paying 3x the price if he'd have to pay full wages with insurance, health benefits, and luxury jacht pensions unions demand... you're reaping the benefits they offer without even realizing. What S. America is doing is what US should be doing with WalMart garbage people keep buying. The reason why the market crashed yesterday was because China OWNS most of US's debt and when their market goes - so does US's... why? one of the reasons is the lack of import-tarrifs making chinese-"goods" cheaper than american-made stuff. It's a catch 22 and we're creating our own problems without realizing. "Oh, but it's 50 cents cheaper at Waldemort!" yes, and mommy and daddy are laid off because everyone else thinks so also... Screw RIAA, boycot Waldemort!

zarchitect

sorrick

JAG42

ive always hated you. and i probably always will.

-nova

nova

Oh, also - yes, always blame the culture. It's 'culture' that's always to blame. Oh god.

navsimpson

Isn't this the same thing that was done in the segregation years. If black people wanted to buy homes, the price became ridiculously expensive.

Looks like Brown people will never be a part of the Apple elite.

nytimer

seanmcleary

If there's so few Mac/iWhatever products down there, I might just move there to get away from the domestic avalanche of iPod crap.

I'm sure there would be no shortage of volunteers to help you pack.

Dancing Milkcarton

If you travel to places like Brazil, you can make a few hundred bucks by bringing a new laptop and reselling it there, thus saving someone the massive taxes there. Brazilians are quite into this scheme and will suggest it faster than you can say mule. Put a couple of pictures of your kids on the screensaver first, they say.

watersketch

Geisrud

I won't say that Jobs loves South America, but it seems that the price difference Apple fanboys are being hit with in this part of the world is not his doing.

mrmmond

stephenkyu

QWERTYthon

Rando

Rando

robo

Michael

JAG42