uberfu

Err, hackintosh?

Now that's what you call the anarchist flavour. However say goodbyeeee to reliability. But it thrashes vista anyway, and that's some knockoff über open source nightmare kernel created by some teenager from Brazil.

bishopdante

THAT'S RIGHT. AND I AM SHOUTING.

bishopdante

bishopdante

bishopdante

YES YOU CAN MAKE APPS FOR THE BLASTED I PHONE

USING QUARTZ COMPOSER

NOT AJAX

NOT SAFARI

NOT FLASH

YOU CAN DO IT ALL WITH QUARTZ COMPOSER

YES WITH BLASTED QUARTZ COMPOSER

SERIOUSLY.

YES VERY SERIOUSLY

AND YOU CAN PUT IT ON A WEB PAGE

YOU CAN HOOK IT UP TO REMOTE SERVICES

YOU CAN CONNECT VIA WIFI

AND YOU CAN HAVE THAT APP ON YOUR IPHONE

QUARTZ COMPOSER

SAD THING IS THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T CHECK BEFORE THEY ASSUMED THAT HTML OR FLASH WAS THE ONLY OPTION. WINDOZERS. THE LOT OF YA. WINDOZERS.

QTZ FILES. SERIOUSLY.

bishopdante

Rewind a bit... its 1978 and both Apple and Microsoft are side by side in the PC world. Geeks and Nerds are falling for the idea of PC's. Bill (a young pup at the time) decides to work on software for a faster processor. He makes the single most greatest call ever. He decides to make the software backwards compatible (meaning, you can use the old software on the new system.)

Apple develops new system; The MAC or LISA or something like that with no regard to users (like myself) who had thousands of 5.4" disks with games and programs. Without regard for the Apple fans with their colorful Apple stickers he tosses the Apple II/IIE/IIc etc.. .and all their following to the gutter. In doing so, he lost so many followers and in hind sight lost out on a big chunk of what Microsoft billionaires have today.

Just when you thought Apple and Steve had learned its lesson....

Steve, reconsider... this could be where you redeem yourself and become the NEW BILLY BOY GATES. What will it be Steve?? The Red pill or the Blue.. its your choice.. make the right one.

Nuff said.

PS. Speaking to the topic. Without a proper SDK there will not be a SKYPE. SKYPE will make this device the most incredible peice of work yet.

Cheers!
PSSADM

pssadm

offsky

For the record, I never meant to say "I graduated, blah, blah..." as a means of insulting anyone else's intelligence. But, I don't appreciate people insulting my intelligence when, in fact, they know nothing about me. I didn't say you don't know what you're talking about, Jason (Chen). I'm absolutely sure that you do, and I respect you and Gizmodo very much. But come on...everyone is so quick to bash everything from here to outer space and back, and the damned thing isn't even out yet. I say: trust in the market, as commenter S1965 said. I think it's going to work better than we think. Maybe not the first day, or the first week, but it will.

So, just wait it out. It's almost here by now.

richard8a

But, in terms of revolution:

1. Since when did the iPod require an SDK to become revolutionary?

2. The BlackBerry and Windows Mobile have had SDK's for years, where are their killer apps? Don't they already insist on built-in email, calendaring, etc? Would it really just take a multi-touch screen and some slightly nicer apps to shoot Windows Mobile into the stratosphere?

3. Hypermedia integrated with phone features. Has this ever really been done? Certainly, a BlackBerry has some level of this, but how pervasive is it? The web browser is a walled garden in that environment.

4. What was the last non-Web app that was revolutionary?

a) BitTorrent, perhaps. Though I'd say we need more storage (into the 30-80g range) on devices before that makes sense.

b) World of Warcraft, or Second Life, maybe, but we won't be running that on a mobile device due to screen real estate.

c) Google Earth. Granted.

d) I don't count Skype because that's just a "cheaper" way to do what a phone already does.

Whereas, look at the near-revolutionary web apps: GMaps, GMail, Facebook, Myspace, Flickr, and the blogosphere.

I look forward to a richer developer experience on the iPhone, and think Apple needs to do something, but to say their approach sucks is alarmist at best. Of course, the proof will be on June 29th, when we get to see it.

parasubvert

Safari uses a "canvas" tag which permits some really impressive drawing capabilities. When I first heard about the canvas tag, I though: "Cool, I can draw custom buttons on the fly." But then I Googled a bit and was pretty stunned by some of the examples showing off the rendering speed and richness it affords. It ain't Quartz but it's pretty darn good.

As for paint apps, you can do that too in a canvas. I can't find the link now but if you google for it, there is a demo of real time drawing into a canvas with impressively snappy performance.

As to data storage. I've only used Safari cookies once or twice (so don't know if there is an crippling size limit) but It's pretty easy to serialize Javascript objects into a XML. If you can store a 50K or so worth of data in a cookie, you can serialize your application core and any objects you want to be persistent into a cookie and restore then with a simple Javascript "eval."

As for Apple's caution regarding development, the only thing I can think of is that, due to space limitations, they might have had to strip out protected memory and application sandboxing. In OS X if an app crashes, no big deal. But that might not be the case in the iPhone.

Cuzco

Safari uses a "canvas" tag which permits some really impressive drawing capabilities. When I first heard about the canvas tag, I thought "Cool, I can draw custom buttons on the fly." But then I Googled a bit and was pretty stunned by some of the examples showing off the rendering speed and richness it affords. It ain't Quartz but it's pretty darn good.

As for paint apps, you can do that too in a canvas. I can't find the link now but if you google for it, there is a demo of real time drawing into a canvas with impressively snappy performance.

As to data storage. I've only used Safari cookies once or twice (so don't know if there is an crippling size limit) but It's pretty easy to serialize Javascript objects. If you can store a 50K or so worth of data in a cookie, you can serialize your application core and any objects you want to be persistent into a cookie and restore then with a simple Javascript "eval."

As for Apple's caution regarding development, the only thing I can think of is that, due to space limitations, they might have had to strip out protected memory and application sandboxing. In OS X if an app crashes, no big deal. But that might not be the case in the iPhone.

Cuzco

If someone set up a massive wimax network across north america, I could see some amazing new comm devices coming out of that.

adaminc

http://www.cell-stuff.net

duker665

When Jobs was on stage at D two weeks ago he said that Apple realized they couldn't get the functionality they wanted from Google Maps if they wrote it as a web app so they helped Google rewrite it as a native app. Hopefully he will see that this need applies to other developers as well.

From http://d5.allthingsd.com/20070530/steve-jobs-ceo-of-apple/...

Jobs said that Apple is working to find a way to allow developers to build applications for it. Jobs says he doesn't want the iPhone to be "one of those phones that crashes a few times a day." He adds: "We would like to solve this problem and if you could just be a little more patient with us, we'll do it.""

cfh

CptPoland

Brian Lam

No matter how stupid or insane a comment may be, never get into a bitching match with the author. I once got a personal email from a blogger from a certain website (rhymes with oystiq) because I disagreed with his opinion and questioned his conclusion. I never went there again. Calling out your readers is shoddy journalism, even when provoked. I know this "jesus phone" stuff has the Apple fans blood running hot, but there is no need to stoop to that level. This stuff is closer to angry ranting than reasoned debate, but that doesn't mean you should do it too.

If Andy Rooney called you a douchebag would you still listen to his whimsical musings about how stuff used to cost less than it does now?

Catalyst

No matter how stupid, insane, or inflammatory you think a comment may be, don't get into a bitch fest with the author. I once got a personal email from a blogger who questioned my intelligence because I didn't agree with his opinion. I never went there again. I know this whole "jesus phone" thing has the Apple crowd going insane, and many of the comments may be more angry bitching and name calling than reasoned debate, but that is still just shoddy journalism and stooping to that level is really unecessary.

If Andy Rooney called you a douchebag would you still listen to his whimsical musings about what stuff used to cost?

Catalyst

"Rise to the challenge and be THAT programmer that made a great app using the "limited" (??) AJAX environment. Hasn't stopped Google so far..."

So why do Google specifically have a J2ME mail and maps client for mobile devices? Why is Google Maps an application on the iPhone?

timalmond

(nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!)

nutbastard

No, you're not. Woz doesn't have a potty mouth. Plus he couldn't resist using an anagram for his handle. And he never calls himself "Steve Wozniak".

/obvs woz bio

@Jason Chen

you are being facetious, right?

How can anyone complain about closed access phones? i understand the deflated feeling brought about by the realization that the open source revolution hasn't spread to that one place we really want it, but come on. It's Cingular. Can you honestly say you expected the stranglehold to loosen? Their whole business model has always been, "Why give the customer that which we could charge them for?"

And it's the same with Apple. It's a business, which is stark contrast to the notion that they exist to please you. They only exist to please you enough that you give them your money. Beyond that, well, it's extra work that brings less income, or it's flat out impossible, because they do not possess the infrastructure to do all the wonderful things they really want to do, and instead have to walk where they could run, if they didn't have to maintain the pace and position required to move forward while also tickling the proverbial scrotum of the people who do have the infrastrucure.

nutbastard

bluemonq

Now consider that average AT&T EDGE speeds are about dial-up modem speed (supposedly "minimum" according to AT&T, but more like "normal"; ask any current AT&T EDGE user if you don't believe me) and even with the current upgrade, they're only shooting for 2x dial-up as a "minimum". Are we having fun yet?

Then consider: any sort of application (and not just a RSS/data query "widget") will be running off of a server. So only people/companies who have the money and time to commit to setting up a server and providing enough bandwidth to run everything. And what happens to bandwidth costs if a webapp is incredibly popular? How are they going to pay for the additional bandwidth? Will you accept onscreen ads? Will you pay for a license? What if they get knocked offline? What happens to your money? Or is Apple or Google going to host all these webapps and pay for the bandwidth out of the kindness of their hearts? Remember, every (non-offline) Widget has a server powering it.

bluemonq

Yes - I did comment a couple times that it's way overpriced.

I too, am sure many versions are to follow. The first generation of the ipod also received some so-so reviews. Now look at it. It's the standard all are following.

iPhone? I'd pay maybe 300 tops right now. Of course - I think the smartphones (3rd party apps and all) are overpriced.

Right now, as much as I drool over the iPhone - I'd rather wait for the palm foleo. It does more of what I want, and I can do more on it.

JeffPom

Singlespeed

The reason I come go Gizmodo is because there's always something new. Please don't recycle your articles, thanks!

domerdel

Yeah? well I'm chuck norris.

I'll get my coat.

rohan1

Apple wants to control YOU! They already have mac users using APPLE's hardware, APPLE's OS, and even APPLE's software programs, since barely anybody makes software that works with OS X. So basically Apple fooled mac users with eye candy, and now they're stuck that way their whole lives. You're confined to what Apple does, and pretty much only what Apple does. I just choose to go free and use a PC.

Suckers.

quikboy

Singlespeed

do they have a history of lying about such things or something?

and if so, how can you continue to be a fanboy of a company that doesn't think much of its relationship with you?

drewheyman

cbandes

No idea who wins the substantive argument, but pretty sure no one wins when a post degenerates into traded insults between Giz editors and Giz commenters.

92BuickLeSabre

And talking about dicks, Richard, please don't be one. You just graduated. Give yourself some time and you will discover why some of the best minds and some of the most successful people in the world never graduated from any University.

Jesus Diaz

The most successful defacto standards have resulted from open, non-proprietary standards. Apple has found itself on both sides of this dynamic. Its earlier efforts to establish a dominant graphics standard failed because VGA was less proprietary and performed pretty well. On the other hand, the iPod standard which was less proprietary was so appealing to the market that it became a de-facto standard and has come to dominate the market for MP3 players, online music sales, and the associated merchandising sales models. (In other words, Steve Jobs has gotten much smarter, over the years.)

People are going to buy the best product, period. Apple is integrating its best iPod into this phone AND it is attempting (we'll see) to create the first decent portable Web device. Frankly, the phone part is the less relevant component. If it succeeds in delivering the music and Web parts (along with a passable mobile phone), the device will become the de-facto hybrid mobile device. At that point, the software developers will be tripping over themselves to produce product that works well with the iPod phone...and THAT is how the better applications will be produced.

The idea of "killer app" development that hinges around an SDK insinuates that Apple is the only party with enough creativity to respond to the market. I think that even they know this isn't true.

S1965

As much good as might come there would also be alot more malicious programs out there, and its all fun and games until a major service is knocked down which is possible if they just opened it up wide like some of you had hoped.

What i love are all the people who are sure its gonna stink. Maybe it will, im betting it wont....but you dont hear me biatching and moaning.

If you can do better than do so...if not STFU and GBTW!

zippyZ

scaught

Instead of re-running the article... if you are a programmer like you said - start programming. Come up with the next Ajax wonder of the world that can become that killer app!

The web is the way right now. Zoho, Google Docs, beta emails, and so many other web based programs. We will survive this tragedy! And we won't even have to download it! We won't have to pay extra for every frickin "killer app" that I have to put on my phone.

I'll lay odds that this article is on the front page once again when iPhone is released officially.

JeffPom

Jason Chen

jmdecombe

Why are so many developers so quick to look only at the limitations and not the solutions? Come up with the solutions and quit whining about the 'limitations'. I am somewhat glad there's no "real SDK", it just leaves more to the imagination and creativity of those who are more pragmatic and inventive.

-Miguel

www.iapps.mobi (coming soon), www.flitter.mobi

msciaudone

"We are all dying to read you explanation about how good programmers will be able to access the iPhone frameworks and data sets from AJAX in Safari."

See #'s 3-5. I obviously don't have those answers, but if you have any shred of patience, Apple does.

"Object-oriented programming is a "skill"? You mean like "lock picking +43" and "fire spells +12"?"

No, and aren't you probably a little old to still be quoting your ADnD handbook? Good programming is a skill. Anyone can write a "Hello World" app. Not everyone can create a good dynamic program that works across environments and systems.

"And tell us, how are we going to access local objects in the iPhone from AJAX again?"

Again, see #'s 3-5. Settle down, walk outside (it's that thing on the other side of the door), and wait for it. There ARE still 17 days until launch. It's coming.

"5. Get the point, yet?
Yeah, we get it. Loud and clear: you really don't know about what you are talking about."

I know what I'm talking about. I just graduated with a Computer Science degree from one of the best Universities in the nation. I had the best programming professor there is: Salih Yurttas. Look up his programming languages page. You might learn something.

richard8a

mathew

This is the key here. The applications WILL NOT run through the Safari browser, and would provide a user experience similar to a "full" iPhone app.

I think what Apple is doing is actually pretty forward-thinking. Business (and consumer) apps are trending more and more towards the web, and the way they've set up the iPhone apps makes it easy to extend existing web applications to work on the iPhone. If you have an existing web portal, developing for the iPhone is just a matter of writing another frontend. You can use the same programming environment, class architecture, libraries, databases, etc. as your existing app.

Now, I do think that they should ALSO offer a full SDK, for those apps which can't be made using the AJAX method, but I have to say that my experience with 3rd-party apps on Windows Mobile and Palm was not good, so I get where Apple is coming from.

jcain

q4norm

we all know everyone at giz loves teh jesus phone!

med

AJAX Well I keep up with the technology - it is pretty darn powerful. No Word? No Problem - Google has an AJAX app for that. No Excel? Same answer. Sure those are somewhat limited apps, but on the other hand so were the Documents to Go verisons on Palm.

I think Apple is focusing more on the more "consumer friendly" features and less on the more business features of it. They are trying to market to the general population who like the movies, the music, the photos, and the non-business apps for now.

Just wait, there will be a more "smartphone" like version in the future. Apple is just testing the waters - if they jumped directly into the competition with the Blackberries and Palms, that would have been a much bigger mountain to climb.

With everything the iPhone has been advertised as, it accomplishes that and excels and is indeed revolutionary for its class.

mryoyoyoyoyo

Webran61

Oh yeah, Google uses it. So? Google produces web applications, that can be used on any computer with an Internet connection. You can go to an Internet Cafe and use Google Maps or check your E-Mail.

Then why did the build an _application_ Google Earth? Because it's way more powerful, uses the openGL support your hardware provides etc...

It you want apps that run offline on the iPhone, those apps will have to be written in JavaScript. Now, this is a scripting language and not nearly powerful enough for larger applications. Yes, Google uses AJAX but a lot of code runs on their web servers...

And how on earth would you ever implement a game, a painting program etc. in a _web browser_?

I've read some comments where people say "It's a PHONE". OK, if you feel so, but I would like such a device (beautiful touchscreen, fast processor, data connectivity) to be really useful. What can I do with iPhone? Browse the web, Mail stuff, SMS, watch videos and listen to music. Wow. Now what I also want:

- Voice over IP when on Wifi
No one will be able to implement something like this now. Which means more money for AT&T... No thanks
- PDF Viewer, Office Documents
- Support for more video formats
- Support for more audio formats
- Some nice games
- Instant Messaging
- RSS Reader
- Image retouching app
- Interfacing with a bluetooth GPS device

Why? It's a full computer, so why not? I know I will get tired of the default set of the iPhone apps soon enough, and having some of the above apps on a portable platform just seems to be very handy.

Oh, and JavaScript is an _interpreted_ language, which means
- very slow
- draws huge amounts of power
Don't forget this! Native applications won't need so much CPU as something in AJAX. I really don't want my phone to run out of power on an important call, I'd rather I'd crash now an then with some bad 3rd party app.

I'll stick to my current phone and wait for the OpenMoko phone Version 2 (due out at the beginning of 2008) which will sport GPS, 640x480 screen, full WebKit (the heart of Safari) and a really open system.

BTW, see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone for a comparison.

Yes, it won't be out for some time, but I'm willing to wait a year.

t_k

duker665

The camera, the bluetooth, the multi-touch gestures, the proximity sensor, the contacts database, the planner, etc.

The real reason why its EDGE and closed SDK is to prevent VOIP from being built on it, as it threatens cingular's business model.

optics

What? Why would I want to pay $600 for a PHONE?! A PHONE?! I could get a laptop for that price AND a PHONE! (End Sarcasm)

At least real smartphones try to be more than a phone properly..this is a cool gadget with obvious limitations (no keys, depending on software leaves the usual vulnerability to crashes, no replaceable battery - power drain, no 3rd party apps limits it to being a shiny cool nokia flip imo whichis 10 x cheaper) ...

Also there's a reason mobiles don't do full webpage browsing and it's not lack of software..did you notice how much pinching, pulling and sliding you have to do to read a page like that on a 2.5 inch screen (check the ds again)?? Give me my mobile page any day please! When i want full page browsing I'll use my laptop!

My recommendation - wait for iPhone v3 - just like the iPod, it'll be out by Sept 2008 anyway ;)

bruckwine

ghmlco

Helio Ocean has this already. When you see a phone number or address on the web, you can take an action.

Man they really let you guys down with this first iphone release. I don't expect drive by shootings on launch day anymore, because people aren't going to be too excited spending about a grand for this limited phone and service.

LoopTrack

Good programmers can program in any language and do it well.

We are all dying to read you explanation about how good programmers will be able to access the iPhone frameworks and data sets from AJAX in Safari.

Oh, hold on, we are not.

because there are certain skills (read: object-oriented programming) that allow them to do so.

Object-oriented programming is a "skill"? You mean like "lock picking +43" and "fire spells +12"?

And tell us, how are we going to access local objects in the iPhone from AJAX again?

5. Get the point, yet?

Yeah, we get it. Loud and clear: you really don't know about what you are talking about.

Jesus Diaz

Actually, I have three things to say.

1. The iPhone will be just fine without one single third-party app. It needs no killer app. An unbelievably advanced iPod combined with a cellphone combined with a web device is enough of a killer app by itself.

2. Mac developers will be insulted by the web development option SJ suggested, but web developers will embrace the hell out of it. Expect to see mind-boggling web apps for the iPhone.

3. A real SDK will be available in a year or so, I can't see that NOT happening.

puiz

1. No SDK? Don't cry. Good programmers can program in any language and do it well, because there are certain skills (read: object-oriented programming) that allow them to do so. So don't weep like a school girl. Rise to the challenge and be THAT programmer that made a great app using the "limited" (??) AJAX environment. Hasn't stopped Google so far...

2. I feel sorry for anyone planning to hack their iPhone. Best of luck getting help from customer support when you knowingly violate its terms and mess something up. "Duh, I just wasted $500/$600 + X cost of warranty so I could put Pong on my multi-touch-interfaced, hand-held, OS X-running device. I'm an idiot."

3. Remember: this device is not even out to the public yet.

4. Remember: this device is not even out to the public yet.

5. Get the point, yet?

richard8a

Yes, millions already have. Vodafone, Verizon and others make billions selling 3rd party apps (mostly games) for mobiles. These aren't high-end mobiles like the iPod. These are $5 games on RAZRs.

But you can't do that in the first place if you don't have an SDK like BREW or J2ME.

fota

As I said, give me my Nokia and my Symbian any day of the week.

Aaron Martin-Colby

protohiro

is the average user going to go out of their way to download and install third party applications to their phone? these types of apps are extremely prevalent in the Windows Mobile world, yet even the IT people that work for, with, and above me dont install such applications. Of the ~15 tech people i know that own a windows mobile powered phone, 1 of them has third party applications on it. Of the non-tech people i know that own a smartphone...oh wait, i dont know any.

So to put stock in a completely moronic end-user going out of their way to install some random unstable third party application, having it crash their phone, and then pointing the finger at apple is completely ridiculous. if anything it will be a technically savvy person installing that app, it crashing, them saying "damn third party apps" and then resetting their phone or simply uninstalling the app.

1) safari sucks
2) ajax is not only limited, but slow as dirt
3) safari sucks at properly rendering ajax!!!

put them all together and you have even buggier, slower apps than before that are even less useful. not so much a winning combination.

kai

No SDK means no real 3rd party support. Only having edge means apps are slow to download. WiFi? Only if you have access where you are will that work.

No. No 3G. No SDK. No real smartphone like stuff. No direct push, exchange/notes/domino support. No hope of ever seeing it. Who other than mactards will buy this? Seriously what does it DO? Not a whole hell of a lot. Looks pretty. Yay. It's the dumb blonde of mobile phones.

bulletmagnet

I'm still hopeful Steve will announce more later, possibly even next year. None of this is anything that cannot be fixed with a system update down the road, so I think i'm still gonna get an iphone. Considering how much everyone is bellyaching I doubt Mad Dog will just leave us with web pages.

brandon208402

mechanisma22

JeffPom

from the webware article:

4. Non-native apps also means that iPhone users won't need to download packages or install software. This could be a significant factor for a device that only has 4GB or 8GB of storage (and a lot of songs and videos competing for that space).

Also:

2. This may kick-start Web 2.0's evolution into Web 3.0: sites and services redefined, redesigned, and refined for a handheld platform and fully mobile user base.

3. As competing devices follow suit and shift to a more-immersive mobile browsing experience, Web-based software and Web 2.0 sites may have great days ahead of them.

Jobs has said he wants to focus on the web possibilities more... How does one do that? Gee, I don't know - make your incredible phone you're releasing only use apps on the web, and oh - while you're at it - release that same browser for Windows, so windows users can begin to get familiar with it - and develop programs to work on it.

Sorry - Jobs is a genius on this one!

JeffPom

Cleverboy

@rfayed: Agreed on the price - but I don't think the price alone called for the rant you gave. Your rant just seemed a bit strong to me. It IS worth drooling over - it's new, and will eventually be a "revolution" (despite this whole sdk thing gizmodo is talkin about...) but the price is high.

JeffPom

doinka

Here's a novel idea - Calm the FSCK down and look at it from another perspective:

http://www.webware.com/8301-1_109-9728298-2.html?part=rss&...

tinyURL version:

http://tinyurl.com/2mxxtt

sketchguy

Microsoft has always preferred OPEN ecosystems. (Possibly because they got their start making developer tools.) Anyone can write an app for Windows Mobile. There are THOUSANDS of apps available for Windows Mobile. The downside is that it's possible to load up your WM mobile with a lot of crap so that it becomes sluggish or requires reboots.

Apple has always leaned towards CLOSED ecosystems. You have fewer choices, but everything "just works." It's what they are comfortable with; it's their default philosophy.

It's a kind of Hegelian dialectic, with the final synthesis of BOTH religions being a system that combines both: a sandbox.

Errors in both philosophies are eventually discovered by the marketplace. For example, Microsoft used to think it was a really cool idea to have a scripting language that could tie together different applications and automatically do things like grab email addresses out of the Address Book. Great idea! Until the Melissa virus came along, and the ILOVEYOU virus... and then 5,000 other viruses... The correction was to a system that was LESS open.

Apple has gone from proprietary hardware to off-the-shelf PC parts. They've gone from writing software for Macs to writing software for Macs and Windows. If Apple is too closed with the iPhone, if the AJAX sandbox is too restrictive, the developers will complain, the customers will complain, and eventually Apple will correct to a system that's MORE open.

As for the "It's a phone!" "It's a computer!" "It's a dessert topping!" argument, the only way you can complain about the lack of "killer apps" for the iPhone is if you see it as a development platform, i.e. a computer that runs apps.

It's really more of an appliance, like the iPod. It's more of an appliance that -- AS AN ADDED BONUS FEATURE -- also happens to run apps. If you look at it as a development platform/computer, you will no doubt expect it to have "killer apps" and an SDK, and you are bound to be disappointed. :-)

bunny_rabid

rfayed

My name is Jeff POM that's an M!

I would be willing to bet that eventually it will be more open. Let it come out - work on your amazing ajax programs....

once it rolls out... then they will upgrade it. Look at what you can now do with the ipod that you couldn't do when it first cam out!

Let's focus on one piece at a time.

maybe I don't know anything about programming... but I know with my stupid little cell phone I have - the more apps I put on it, the less I can do with it. eventually you run out of memory. that much I DO KNOW!

Thanks for talking down to all of us! I appreciate a good condescending talk now and then.

JeffPom

QWERTYthon

At least, it seems like a potentialy good idea.

maztec

Why is everyone hyped about it? Cuz it is amazing.

I'm not an apple person. I use Windows. I wish I had an apple, but I don't. I'm happy with windows - it serves me just fine.

This phone offers several features that are a first - and are worth drooling over.

check the voicemail you WANT instead of all of them. browse on a FULL BROWSER!!! Not some hacked up version of a page reduced and reformatted to fit your phone - no - a FULL BROWSER! It's sleek, it's powerful - it offers wi-fi access.

This is the future. it's going to do much more than any phone so far has.

download squad has a great article about the lack of a sdk

JeffPom

I think that when you go home you'll dock it and use your 20+ inch monitor with a keyboard and mouse. On the go you can dock it into a tablet or laptop chassis, and on the go it fits in your pocket.

Now if we can just make sure it doesn't run at 200 degrees Fahrenheit.

Ross Winn

jmdecombe

After clicking through I was expecting to see
"NOT! iPhone rules. Plus Zune sucks."

Catalyst

In order for a revolution to happen, the whole mold of the industry needs to change. This can not be accomplished by a highly capable phone that could be programmed by third party developers to do whatever their heart desires. If a revolution in the sense that everyone is talking of here is to occur, what needs to happen is the phone companies need to be be regulated just like the original land line companies were regulated. (Cell Companies Provide Signal, Other People Sell Phones). Until that happens, the cell companies will regulate what phones get to be on their networks and how much they need to be locked down.

xeggbert

deathbychichi

to name a few

I dont know of any for Smartphones however.

Mario

It's a phone first not a PDA with phone features like all the other so called smartphones.

@cyberreality: "People always bash Microsoft, but at least they release the tools for free."

Ummm, remind me of these free development tools M$ releases?

Apple has released XCode, Dashcode, WebObjects all for free. FOR FREE.

Visual Basic? Visual Studio? NOT FREE

lowededwookie

Geezussrollerbladingchrist! Of course there's a bloody SDK. And probably only Apple has it. And I am sure other people will get it eventually. People like Electronic Arts or ID. I doubt AT&T has it, though.

The point is that the more people has it, the better. I am not even advocating freely installing stuff on the iPhone. If Apple wants to keep tight, they can do a certifying program and have everything stand up to their user interface and application quality standards, then certify the apps and even frikkin sell them through the iTunes Music Store. Kind of like what Nintendo does, but less tight.

Keep the control, but allow people to bring the Next Big Thing.

Jesus Diaz

I'm not only going to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, I'm going to buy one as soon as I can get my hands on one. And I'll develop for it.

I actually have some concern about the kind of hijinx people will pull through the Ajax interface. If Ajax apps have access to the dialer, etc, you could potentially cause a lot of trouble. Years of experience with ActiveX and domain-based security or even signed apps have been no security panacea, that's for sure.

deathbychichi

cybereality

I can't wait for the 29th, then I wont have to read all this iphone crap anymore.

blankmind13

Power to the ...Apple and other people that are going to make bank off this proprietary software....smart business, assurance of further purchasing, control over growth and development...and a hord of other reasons theyre doing this, its not surprising to me, because in my eyes as much as fanboys say apple is for the people, theyre really just after the peoples money. no sale over here, and its not JUST cause att sucks round deez parts

manjay

jmdecombe

The rest of this thread are the Apple haters, the Microsoft plants, and the Apple fans expressing the same ol' same ol'. Just ship it already so I can drop my Palm that locks up as it thinks about whether it can find the network or not.

lschofield

So questions:
- Doubtful, security, you are right.
- Supposedly has Flash in Safari and Flash has something called the Shared Object that kicks cookie ass. So yes.
- Why wouldn't it. Good CSS designs should be quick loading. Google maps and other raster heavy image sites do not define the bandwidth requirements of web applications in general.
- AJAX and the DOM or work on the DEVICE. The 'A' stands for asynchronous, meaning 'doesn't need the server'.
- It is a phone/multimedia device not a logistics device, who cares.

AJAX is that freakin' cool. They have the dedicated apps because they already existed! Why reinvent the wheel, plus they get to keep some Mac only apps off the net that way. Conversely any other apps made the the iPhone might one day work on other smart phones and they will already on your computer. Why limit the platforms with a stupid SDK.

As zingbot says, no Wii SDK and that thing rocks.

PhoenixDowne

It also seems that many of you are not developers (my company is and that's why I drool at the thought of developing for the iPhone and seeing what other people, more brilliant than me, can come up with). Perhaps that's why some of you don't fully understand what not having a dedicated SDK, with full access to the iPhone hardware, operating system, Cocoa classes and built-in databases means for a potential iPhone developer.

So without further ado, here are some answers to your comments in inverse order:

@catbutt: What makes a true application for device X is an application that FULLY exploits the features that make such a device unique. In the case of the first Mac, this was the graphical GUI and the mouse. For something like the Nintendo DS, it means taking advange of the dual screens and touch screen. For the Wii, developing for the Wiimote. For the PS3, fully exploit the machine graphic subsystems. And so forth.

No matter how you look at it, an AJAX application running in a sandbox (Safari) will NEVER exploit the iPhone potential: multi-touch screen for unique UI interactions - the only available will be the one that safari provides, not related to your application objects -, multiple integrated databases and services and access to a crucial subset Mac OS X Cocoa classes (for quick prototyping, first class development tools and easy maintenance). In other words: no uniqueness to your application, which will be just a generic app running within the screen of an iPhone, rather than an app developed around what makes the iPhone a great platform in order to create something unique to the platform.

@deathbychichi:

Who cares about Windows Mobile and Palm SDK. First, none of these systems have the power of a full Mac OS X under the hood with incredibly powerfull classes. Have you seen the graphic stunts of the iPhone. That's built into Mac OS X and is available as reusable code for ALL native applications. Not for AJAX applications.

Second, Windows Mobile and Palm OS don't have, not by a wide margin, the kind of power that this implementation of Mac OS X has. A complete UNIX-class operating system running a subset of native Cocoa classes and services.

@JeffPorn: It's not just a phone. It's many things. Jobs is clear about this and that's the revolution. If it was just a phone, then you wouldn't be giving a damn about it. But the stuff that amazes you is what makes you want to buy it, no? By giving full access to this power to developers mean that they can create killer apps that can take the iPhone to a whole new level. This is what happened to the Macintosh before and it changed computing as we know it.

Saying that no killer applications is a good thing because then you will use less space in your iPhone is just silly. Sorry.

@baltweld: I am sure you are not the only one to be disappointed at the lack of true GPS. And that's why an SDK needed, so other people fill the gaps that Apple is leaving because they just can't handle EVERY single need of the market. That's why we have apps in the first places. And yes, GPS is another example of applications that won't be supported through Safari and AJAX.

@Penguin4x4: it could be a revolution because for the first time someone has put all these features in a great package and all running a fully-grown, UNIX-like, long-time proved operating system like Mac OS X with highly evolved programming classes. As opposed to crap or underpowered stuff like the rest of similar devices in the market.

@SomeToast: They are dedicated apps. As for a revolution of AJAX apps in iPhone, it will be an extension of the "revolution" of the web. Not something unique to the iPhone. My point here is that your AJAX app will never access the full power of everything that the iPhone has and, therefore, will not be an iPhone app. Mere mortals will also find a lot easier to code in Cocoa than AJAX, sorry. Especially with the objects already built for you.

@hybrid8: no, the iPhone on its own is not a killer app. It's a great vehicle with amazing functionality. Like the Mac was originally. The killing that spawned entire industries came later, in the form of third-party software. Ask Bill Gates.

@the people who have said "AJAX apps may be stored locally", well, we will discover that this week.

@the people who points that there WILL be an SDK, the news is that Steve Jobs has said: NO SDK REQUIRED. And no SDK is being distributed or announced at WWDC or ADC.

And I wish you are right, btw.

All in all, as Gizmodo writer, amateur barman and iPhone whore, I will get an iPhone. As Apple developer and Apple fanboy, I am disappointed at the news (specially when I was counting on the SDK after All Things D).

Jesus Diaz

Would I be able to access the iPhone databases from Safari and query them from my AJAX application? Looking at Jobs' stress on security, it doesn't look like this will be possible.

This sounds like a complaint that you won't be able to write an iPhone worm. LOL

Would I be able store data locally beyond cookies? Probably the same answer.

And a complaint you won't be able to fill up or clobber persistent storage.

How is the access to iPhone's hardware? Would I be able to access iPhone's hardware to connect to an infrared scanner via Bluetooth and create an amazing sales or logistics application?

No, because IT'S A PHONE. LOL You seem to think it's a computer, and you have some kind of God-given right to get in there load up Ubuntu and start breaking things. LOL

I guess that's not as catchy a headline, though.

LOL how about, "NO SDK FOR iPOD MEANS END OF WORLD AS WE KNOW IT"

bunny_rabid

That wasn't even created by apple. It was created by a 3rd party developer whose creation was purchased from him. When you're locking out developers from your platforms, you're locking out these types of ideas.

Just a heads-up.

thecapitalizt

That felt good.

SchruteBuck

jmdecombe

jmdecombe

rfayed

As for one touch screen typing, it is probably true that it will take some adjustment (surprise!) but I bet people will learn to excel at one hand touch screen typing in no time (rest phone in palm and use thumb) if the touch screen precision is good enough (and it seems it is).

jmdecombe

Okay, when can I buy one?

ghmlco

www.openmoko.org

Now that is a phone.

saivior

This seems like a good plan to me. The nice thing is there are likely to be more apps, since people can develop them for everyone (anyone who has a web browser with javascript), not just for the iPhone. Platform independence is a good thing....

catbutt

If an SDK would result in a great app, they should be here already.

Ever try to develop for PalmOS? Symbian? It's kinda unbelievably brutal.

Even if the current iteration is Ajax, at least it will be easy to code for.

deathbychichi

It's a phone. A PHONE! The fact that you can do some pretty damn nice stuff besides making a phone call makes it a bonus. The fact that you can do TRUE web browsing for a change - makes it a super bonus!

The fact that I can now do anything I want on the web without downloading a single other program... means that to only have programs using web technology means that - well, I'll be able to do just about anything... on my PHONE!

I'm not a programmer. I'm not a "Uber-Geek" and much of the language I see on here is over my head... but what I see in the iPhone - makes me want to buy it. I'll be super happy if I can't download additional programs - less memory to waste.

On My Phone.

JeffPom

trippidy

but most people arent gonna want only 200 text, and only 450 minutes a month, lets up that up to 900 minutes and unlimited text (this is where it gets good) and why not an 8gb ipod?
Grand Total: 2,545 for 2 years of iPhone.

Thank god I didn't waste my money. I may retire young.

someToast

baltwade

It wasn't going to start a revolution in the first place; the only thing "new" it brings to the table is 4/8GB capacity and a touch screen interface, nothing more. I can guarantee you though AT&T will sell all 3 million launch units. Gotta love marketing...

Penguin4x4

jimmie geddes

Ok... how the heck did you do that? put my quote in a little blue box, i have been trying to figure that out for the longest time, What do you do to do that?

And why would i want to get gizmodo without Apple? Its always awesome to see what Apple comes out with, I was "almost" sold on the iPod Nano remake, but I'm waiting for that new iPod video to come out... But as i said, and you even quoted this, I hate the iPhone with a fiery passion, not apple, the iPhone...

Mario

If AJAX is that good and the developers don't need an SDK, why has Apple built a dedicated Mail applications or Google Maps dedicated software into the iPhone? Why not just reformat the CSS on the Web and open a special view to .mac mail, Gmail or Google Maps made just for iPhone Safari users ?

Anyone with a modicum of web experience can write an application that'll run on the iPhone.

Mere mortals writing cell phone apps? Yeah, I can't see a revolution here either.

someToast

BTW, WiFi will alleviate the necessity for a heavy (and slow) data plan.

hybrid8

I don't think I'll spend $600 on a first generation phone. But I'm not going around saying it's over priced. What are people comparing this to? Really, look at the landscape and you'll see it's actually very fairly priced compared to so much other dreck that's out there.

hybrid8

In the name of the Apple, iPhone, and Jobs.

Sonikku

JimByte

I can't believe I just read that on here. Shocked to say the least. I hope it isn't a revolution, already too much hype, over a bloody phone.

OBM

Personally, based on the information at hand, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying anything more than it was a minor bummer that there was no SDK, but I'm glad that they'll be offering the webapp option at launch.

I guess that's not as catchy a headline, though.

Macgyver

The real limit on what you can do with AJAX now is the bandwith. everything is procesed in the server so you whant it to run light, but if the iphone manages to run AJAX aplications directly inside it with no use of EDGE or Wifi im shure this will be fantastic.

lolec

zingbot