clink-clink

megaphone456

vivo97

To make the zune an ipod killer here is what the big M needs to do:
1. Change zune to iZune. Many consumers are really dumb so they will think that because the name starts with an "i" they will think must be like an really cool ipod so they will buy it.
2. Add more USEFULL features. The key here is usefull. Dont install bloatware and even thought a knife/scissors/pick/screwdriver/etc is usefull you probably dont want to do what wenger did to the swiss army giant knife version 1.0.
3. Support more media types. Make it work with mac too.
4. Figure out what your consumers want. Most guys like women. Since the zune plays video, porno?, it should have a intercourse simulator. For women it can vibrate.
5. Probably something I am forgetting.
6. Market like crazy and better more meaningfully commercials. Drop "welcome to the social". Check out "zune ballmer" on youtube.

wizzledizzle

Recently, I got sick of converting tracks so they can play on any device, and I shut off my son's access to iTunes one-click buying. Then, the deliberate bricking of unlocked iPhones pushed me over the edge. Apple goes on my corporate boycott list with Sony.

After years of wading hip deep in Microsoft design achievements, I wasn't shocked when my son starting talking about getting a Zune. We went to Big Box today and big surprise, they knew nothing about the Zune 2. So like a good senator, I use the Google and there's the Zune 2, radiating with the same excitement as a 36-roll package of paper towels.

Now I'm stuck. The market leader is using their position to walk all over us. Creative is living out their misnomer. Microsoft is firmly clinging to boot treads. The rest are bleating too loud for me to think.

What is the answer? Is Zune 2 going to actually do anything other than make you turn your head away while you touch it?

sleeve

T_Heine

Thats always been my problem with Ipod, the hype. Not that I'm saying the Ipod isn't a great product, it is, but there is an annoying amount of hype at Apple that is simply better marketing. Microsoft is guilty of this too, which is why I'm waiting for a third option. Face it, Apple isn't the Underdog anymore, its the big company that will and can steamroll anybody that gets in their way. That being said, if someone invented a media player that was vastly superior as far as hardware goes, I'm pretty sure that Apple would still hold onto its market share without even trying.

Why? They've ingrained it into the masses that the Ipod is all they need and all they'll ever want, and that it shall forever remain the standard. As for fools argument of MAC vs PC, its stupid. Why? They're really taking pot shots at Windows, and dragging the hardware along with them so they can sell more Macs. When Apple offers an OS that is on a level playing field with Windows (IE, you don't need to buy a Mac to run it or hack it to get it working.), then we'll talk. Go on though, go ahead forever fighting over whether Microsoft or Apple is the better big corporation.

bbfreak

They clearly say that on the larger zune the buttons are to the side of the "squircle" in this picture all 3 size have the mickey mouse orientation.

Someone heard some of the changes and made this picture as a mock up of what htye believed it might look like.

The finish is different, and the layout is different..... how in any way is this picture at all confirming anything...? Other than the fact that it has a squircle?

thebrady

But some of you need to visit Apple's website, and take a look at the owners of the company. Microsoft owns almost half of apple.

So in reality, buying a Zune or an iPod and arguing over either doesn't really matter in the end. In the end the same people get your money.

So when I say Microsoft Pwns apple (I mean ..if you're a gamer its a no brainer) I really mean they OWN THEM. In an actual business sense. ^_^

Sdeph5200

Lol All Microsoft gotta do is smush apple with XP/Vista and Xbox

THe zune is very good. 30 GB is just perfect, almost too big for me.

Their marketplace is much better in my opinoin because I don't have to pay for EVERY SINGLE SONG.

I think we should all just wait, see, and don't be haters, and don't be biased.

Cursemaster0

Good move on Microsoft's part, you know releasing the Zune here right after everybody and their dog gets an iPod for Xmas... real smart.

Bearing in mind I've never even touched a Zune, here's my take on the iPod:

It's capacity options grow with my library. I started with a 20GB iPod, then moved up to 60GB and any day now I'll have the 160GB iPod. Zune.... 30GB only. 30GB would have been perfect 3 years ago; now it just doesn't cut it. I see there are plans for an 80GB model and possibly larger, but it's too late. I've had 60GB or 2 years and will have 160GB real soon. I can't wait around for Microsoft to play catch-up.

The iTunes store is great. I hardly ever buy anything from it (I stick with CDs and rip to AAC), but it's great knowing it's there and it has just about everything I could ever want.

I live in iTunes. I know some people just can't get on with iTunes, and each to their own, but iTunes just works the way my head works, and my iPod is like my iTunes-to-go. It's exactly what I would want a DAP to be. Other people want different things, and I understand that; but I feel like Apple made iTunes and iPod just for me... that's how much I get on with it.

To sum up, whether the Zune sucks or the iPod sucks doesn't even come into it for me. The Zune could be infinitely better and I still wouldn't buy one:

It won't hold nearly as much as my library, not that it matters because I don't have a way of putting my library on it in the first place... but that's not really an issue because I can't even buy it.

Once these conditions are met, before we even get to the device, I'd have to like the software as much as iTunes and the store would have to be at least halfway decent.

Once all that's happened then I'll decide which one's better... although I imagine by the time Microsoft's ticked all the boxes Apple will still be miles ahead... they have been for the last 6 years, and I don't see how Microsoft could possibly turn it around anytime soon.

Dogmatic

Now there are pictures of new Zune 2 earphones. Lets get real folks colors (mine is brown and I like its color) are not the issue and storage is not the issue wifi useability, decent podcast services and maybe even a clock function would get this thing to the next level.

DaveLG526

zorrillaj

Mario

llab

iPhoney

Try fast-forwarding, rewinding, adjusting volume and changing tracks on an iPod.

As a Zune Marketplace subscriber, I enjoy having nearly full access to the entire catalog of songs for $15/month.

These are things to keep in mind (but often overlooked by most people) when choosing a digital audio player.

scottredd

bnosach

timsuha

matheusloures

copyguy

Chibbie

shaq

mushaboom

Apple's biggest 'innovation' was the click wheel, yes?
well, that was ripped off from the B&O Beocom 6000: [www.bang-olufsen.com]
I've owned the first gen iPod and still have my 9 year old Beocom, and I can tell you that the click wheel implementation on both is identical, right down to the little clicks as the wheel turns.

Anyway, I find it amusing that we have both Microsoft and Apple fanboys getting into a tizzy over which is the best player, when there are a whole host of smaller companies that are creating mp3 players that are way better than both the iPod and the Zune - iRiver Clix2, Archos404, and iAudio D2 to name a few.

shaq

Yeah there are more ipods but then again they have been aro8und longer and also have had shuffles and minis and nanos to fill out their number.

Yeah I liked the Zune os can't say I was so fond of the dpad and I like the click wheel but I hate scrolling all the time and the ipods look like shit after a few weeks.

Considering the developing lead apple has had there has been little to no innovation since the click wheel, and I'm not saying Microsoft is a major innovator here but they took a chance on the wifi and now the apple fanboys seem to be clamoring for their piece of the action. I'll see how it goes on Wednesdays. I didn't like the iPhone because of the greasy touch screens at the store and I'm wondering if I would go for the touch screen ipod or will I just get a zune and keep my shuffle for the workouts.

Ultraorange

brikeh

Spykedjadedragon

Spykedjadedragon

I dont own an mp3/4 player but I would buy the next ipod, touch screen one, if it is like the iphone but less money, like current price of an ipod.

Microsoft, stick to making xbox, but not like the craped out 360's. Also focus on making better os's which dont crash after booting up. And dont put fancy poop which will make one who is upgrading to vista, i'll never, have to buy the latest processor, 4G ram, and 50G of hhd, 10G for initial install and 40G for updates.

wizzledizzle

rainfever

Well, my first two Zunes both got their displays cracked for no reason. Third time i went with th iPod 5G - no problems at all.

check here: [www.cliczune.com]

devsingh

Hyloka

kromekoran

nelson714

"...if you're suggesting that Apple innovates, then I argue that they don't. They gloss things up to make it SEEM like they're innovating, but I have yet to see them do anything TRULY different."

If Apple doesn't innovate then why does everybody trip over themselves to IMITATE. Apple uses only the technology that's available just like everyone else, so creating something TRULY different is impossible - for Apple or anyone else.

There was a time when Sony was considered the innovator. It's arguable that that is no longer the case, but if you take a look at what other companies are putting into market, you can definately say it's not Sony-like. Like it or not, whatever market Apple is in is slowly being dominated by Apple.

As far as Microsoft is concerned, they have always been "inspired" by Apple, and anything they bring to the table will always be compared to Apple. Nuff said.

mudman

Agree so much with what most of what you say. Competition is great. Without it things don't take larger steps to improve and prices don't drop from better innovations.

MarkHawk

I like that they got rid of that dated nintendo direction pad, but still need a little more work before they can be Apple-like.

It's getting there though.

mudman

I agree with some of your statements, but that doesn't change the fact that you heavily suggested that the Zune was copying the iPod and that it was trying to misleadingly seduce customers with a big screen. Even if the two screens have the same resolution, a bigger screen is STILL a bigger screen and better suited for viewing videos, or anything for that matter.

I'm not saying MS innovates. In fact, very few companies "innovate." That word is used MUCH too loosely. But whatever MS does do, it does with its own sense of style and tries to make it in such a way that people can take it seriously. The problem with your mindset is that you're JUST thinking about the market in terms of Zune vs iPod. The way I think about it is Zune vs non-iPods vs iPod. And the Zune is one HELL of a iPod alternative.

And if you're suggesting that Apple innovates, then I argue that they don't. They gloss things up to make it SEEM like they're innovating, but I have yet to see them do anything TRULY different.

Look, it's not that the Zune is a half-hearted attempt at competition. The Zune is simply trying to make its own name. The simple fact of the matter is that NOTHING short of divine intervention will produce an iPod-killer. The iPod was simply the first mp3 player to be well-marketed and because of that, the vast majority of people innately associate the term "mp3 player" with "iPod." It would be COMPLETELY unrealistic for MS to believe that they could actually provide serious competition. The iPod pretty much advertises itself via word of mouth and as a fashion symbol.

And again, MS is always the whipping boy. You blame MS for not producing a great iPod alternative, but you neglect to blame the hundreds of other companies coming up with other iPod-alternatives.

My point is that it's pretty narrow minded to think of the market as Zune vs iPod. Of course in that sense the Zune won't seem innovative. But when you think of it as Zune vs non-iPod vs iPod, it's easy to see how well the Zune is doing against the non-iPods.

freeway8989

Im looking for facts on both god damn it. Stop turning this shit into a war.@R2B2:

F*cking Read! I was saying numbers sold! Not failure rate. I even used a general number range. I've been asking if anyone has data on failure rate, but since no one here can understand I was looking for a percentage like I've seen in 3 articles already on Gizmodo I guess it's pointless to ask again.

Your morons... Im trying to see both sides and your pushing one on me. Your worse then fox news right now... I said it...

MarkHawk

sisedi

In response to your last paragraph, I'm not at all pissed. In fact I think that we can agree that competition is a good thing. Competition is beneficial to the consumer in two ways. A, it causes price wars, resulting in savings per value. B, It forces into effect the inovate or die prinicipal.

What I have a problem with is that M$ doesnt innovate at all. I promise not to mock you if you'll admit that the much ballyhooed "squirting" bit is really not a very saleble feature, and certainly not something that will force the competition to innovate.

If anything, I'm annoyed that M$ isn't greater competition, as that would force Apple to innovate further. Something they are quite good at. The Zune just seems like a half-hearted attempt at copying the iPod, and in the grand scheme of things is probably really targeted at protecting M$ marketshare in the browser market (see iPod halo effect) by keeping a percentage of folks who mightve otherwise purchased an iPod an discovered the simplicity of Apple products (and potentially purchased a mac in the future) from doing so.

Stealth43

WOW! Look at this d-bag acting tough on a BLOG. FYI, down where I live, that's called PATHETIC.

Anyway, despite the fact that companies copying other companies is a natural and, more importantly, healthy occurrence in ANY competitive market, for some reason, people like stealth43 here think that only Microsoft is guilty of such an act. Moreover, idiots like him think that such an act actually warrants penalization. Um, here's some news: that's called improvement and it, for obvious reasons, should be welcomed. MS at least had the balls to experiment with wifi. The only new thing that Apple does with each generation is coming up with a prettier design. That, my friend, is called monopolization. Though I don't intend to buy a Zune (the new PSP will do just fine), I'm glad that MS is trying to corner it's own share in the market and thus, in an attempt to compete, will provide new and different options, which ALWAYS benefits the customer. While the Zune may be the whipping boy of the mp3 player market, it's just like any other mp3 player on the market vying to compete with the iPod. And remember, the Zune actually outdoes SEVERAL of it's non-iPod competitors--which, although in one sense can be viewed as copying Apple, can, in another, be viewed as improvement upon the OTHER portion of the market. Resultantly, the Zune keeps that portion of the market on its toes.

And stealth, I don't understand why you're so pissed about MS "copying" the iPod. At some point or another, the Zune is going to share characteristics with the iPod, the reason being that they're in the SAME GOD-DAMNED MARKET. Plus, I find the fact that Apple does nothing to improve it's line MUCH more appalling.

freeway8989

Stealth43

timsuha

Stealth43

imajoebob

Now that we've gotten that discussion out of the way, lets focus on the Zune.

You pointed out that they (M$) never in their marketing materials say "widescreen" I was careful if you'll reread my comments not to suggest that they did. They wouldn't, as they would be called out for it immediately in the tech community. They arent trying to deceive you or me though, they are aiming squarely at folks who dont know their px s from their em s. The idea is that people will shop for a multimedia player, and will see the Zune sitting on the shelf next to the iPod. The person will think "Ohh, that one has a wide screen, I bet HD (or wide screen) video content will look better on that". From a purely theoretical perspective it could be better, though it would be necessary to encode from the original source in a completely different manner (more suited to the stretched pixels), what would be optimal would be if M$ had sprung for screens with proper (not falsified) widescreen pixel aspect ratios. In reality, the quality of video you will get from the Zune cannot be any better than that of an iPod, as they use the same resolution.

I certainly do not think you an idiot with regards to the "ring" for navigation. As I stated in the previous paragraph, you are not the person M$ would be trying to pull a fast one on. As for saying "Anyone who looks at a Zune and knows what its primary functions are can pretty darn well realize that a scroll wheel of that size would be ridiculous", I dont know. I think the nano's scroll wheel is of similar size, or maybe even a bit smaller (though still fully functional) I dont have data on this one. Do you have a diameter on the Zune's ring?

Stealth43

Add to that the 16 million flash MP3 players from Apple (at a profit) along with iTunes sales (80% of download sales; just passed Amazon.com in total music dollars). Which company has the better economic model? Which player will still be here in 2011?

Or more simply, how many people do you know who own an iPod and how many a Zune. Heck, how many own more than one iPod vs one Zune? Or even crazier, how many own an iPod and an iPhone?

imajoebob

kzooguy

Please accept my apologies.

It should only take M$ 100 years to catch up, that is, if Apple stops selling iPods, and M$ continues selling Zunes at the amazing rate of 1 million per year.

Stealth43

Do they actually say "fabulous widescreen display" in the ads? I don't think so. But if they do and you can show me then I will agree with what you said but I feel they haven't.

Next, to say that they stole the idea of a ring-based directional system from iPod is total BS. Anyone who looks at a Zune and knows what its primary functions are can pretty darn well realize that a scroll wheel of that size would be ridiculous, it's not trying to trick "idiots" like myself into buying it. I bought it because I didn't want an iPod and knew that Zune did something the iPod didn't, it included better quality playback which was always something that kept me away from the pod people.

I'm not in love with my Zune but you are talking out of your ass.

sisedi

Microsoft's Zune will not play protected Windows Media Audio and Video purchased or 'rented' from Napster 2.0, Rhapsody, Yahoo! Unlimited, Movielink, Cinemanow, iTunes, or any other online media service. The Zune will not even play content previously purchased from Microsoft's own MSN Music service. ...The media that Microsoft promised would Play For Sure doesn't even play on Microsoft's own device.

Bolding Mine.

Stealth43

I will strongly consider switching it out for that Samsung Y2 w/e if it had a bigger hdd. Or maybe Zune 2 will work better.

sisedi

Microsoft wishes they had the great ideas Apple has, which is why one often sees the slogan "Redmond, start your photocopiers!" Funny thing about that though, is that they dont even seem to have very good copiers.

First, the iPod's screen resolution is 320 by 240 (thats pixels, not inches, I know it can be confusing). M$ thinks that they can pull a fast one, so they let folks think they have a widescreen display...funny thing that...it happens to be 320 by 240. Just stretched. Pathetic.

Second, M$ realised that Apple's use of the touch wheel navigation was ingenious, simple, and intuitive. Unfortunately, they couldnt directly rip off the idea like they usually do, (thank you Apple patent lawyers!) so they mimicked it with a rounded area to confuse average non-tech-savvy joes into thinking it operated just as simply and easily as the iPod's iterface. It doesnt.

- Semper ubi sub ubi

Stealth43

Hello, Ameritrade? Sell all my Apple stock and put into Zunes! No, not Microsoft stock. Buy me lots of Zunes!!

imajoebob

mgill85258

Stealth43

darkmonk04

But please MS give us Audible support and movies and videos on the Zune marketplace.

deitiphobia

However, I do think MS will slowly nip away at iPod sales. After all, they may have already nipped away at their "potential" sales with just one generation on the market.

I doubt anyone will actually overtake iPods as far as overall sales, but someone will get into a position where they are considered alongside iPods - the same way XBox 360s are now mentioned alongside Playstations, even though they haven't come close to total PS2 sales. That would equal a success for a non-iPod device.

DW

It's like I told my bud, if you use itunes and have bought music through them, you're better off with a ipod, otherwise, zune rocks. It's such a solid machine, feels like it will run forever.

RobotVampire

Ugh....300 million includes all the versions of iPods ever made, and that includes the recent shuffles and mini's and nanos which by far make up a majority of that 300 million, and a large majority. Compare the same time frame (say the 5.5 ipods and the Zune) and the difference in sales are substantially less. But thanks for trying.

I dont own a Zune, nor do i plan on buying one. Theres alot that needs to be fixed, and it seems like Microsoft is dragging its feet getting some new features into the V1, software wise. Ill stick to something else; Maybe www.anythingbutipod.com will have something to recommend me, like Creative and Cowon, which are amazing players.

diabolusunknown

Bloody_Sorcerer

Enoiugh said Zune fanboys. You can now go back to deleting malware from your PC's.

paja

you should work for the apple PR team, cuz you are pretty good at it.

"My "friend" told me that........"

Twenty5

Funny thing is that they havent even tried one......

Twenty5

Will they be foolish enough to repeat the same mistake? I doubt it.

Microsoft does many things right and many things wrong, but one thing they've always done well is fixing their mistakes when v2 rolls around. I expect to see at least an attempt at a "killer feature" that goes beyond the iPod. If they somehow manage to ship unlocked MP3/WMA sharing, then we'll know they got it right.

dotyoureyes

njbrideau

I think it was a Zune.

It might have been a Walkman. He was sweating a lot, so I didn't want to get too close.

permissionmag

Rhainor

Cent 1: It's alright-looking. Not breathtaking, but OK. But, my iPod isn't exactly breathtakingly beautiful either, so... whatever. I just hope they up the ante on features (Zune 1 was half-way there.)

Cent 2: What seemed like the best design on Zune 1 was that it had a matte finish. HD iPods get all fingerprinted and look gross after a day. If this Zune mock-up is real, then they just moved backwards in design.

DW

iPods dont outnumber Zunes 5 to 1, its more like 300 to 1. It (the figure
300 million) was referenced in Apple's recent conference call. M$ held a press conference when they had shipped (not sold) their millionth Zune. Where did they go you ask? How about to Woot!, where they took a whopping 23 hours to sell, at one hundred dollars off their original retail price.

Also, I'm surprised no one has pointed this out yet, but this new Zune looks like its ripped off of another recently revamped music player...not surprising considering the first one was as well. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to the name? ;)

btw, before any M$ fanboizz get their panties in a twist, I know that the Zune wasnt ripped, it was a "collaboration".

Open your eyes people. Microsoft really is as lame as they wish you wouldnt believe

- Semper Duc, Sequere Numquam.

Stealth43

Major_Al

gadgetchic

EvilWalksWithMe

jbelkin

Interesting to see the same styling in 3 different sizes. That is something iPod never had.

Too bad it doesn't look wide screen though. I was hoping for > 320 x 240

kibets

i<3Apple

Pure speculation.

DaffyDuck

ph0tic

camdog2000

camdog2000

KainXS

KROMEKORAN go to zuneboards.com, there is a hack to turn off the marketplace when not in use, it make a big difference.

ZUNE ROCKS!

wetworker

jg410

mrlopez23

And I'm going to wager that the Zune and iPods with hard drives in them have pretty similar failure rates since they both, you know, use hard drives.

R2B2

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!

bubuli

jnield

Brian Lam

PuckOTG22

i<3Apple

The Lab

@djfoxx64: I never said anything about Zunes breaking... I said I don't know of any broken Zunes but I'd like to see what the fail rate is. I know iPods fail rate is higher I was just asking for #'s like people have been doing with the ps3 and 360 these past few weeks.

I like my Zune and while I like the iPod features I am not a fan of the design. It just is to bright and flashy but its also a lot of steel or rounded 70's designs which isn't my taste.

The software for both have there pros and cons. I iTunes has more to buy, Zune allows me to rent till I feel the need to go to a store and buy it. Itunes doesn't drain my system, Zune is pretty and finds my album artwork fast, etc etc etc.

I juts like having choices. With competition comes benefits to consumers. Im waiting for buy one Zune get the second free, you know... to expand the social.

Also still waiting for marketplace on the go for Zunes. And Video to download. Zune screen rocks and doesn't drain my battery as fast as it should for it's size and quality.

MarkHawk

jonb4more

PS-I own a brown Zune. Bought it for $200.00 net a year ago. It only syncs when it wants to. I use it for archival album stuff and an Insignia(BEST BUY) 1gig for all my rapid change podcast stuff. The Insignia is as big as a postage stamp, color screen. replaceable battery, 18 hour uninterupted listening with a great wound. Long live the brand names to drive down the knockoffs.

tekrek

NightBlade

Evil J

bdkennedy1

waterdrop

ya, wtf are you talking about zunes breaking? i NEVER heard of ANYONES zune breaking. I took mine back to best buy and lied that it was broken just so i could get a new color. ^_^

djfoxx64

Oh well... to each their own.

Dute

obricko

silomunke

timsuha

timsuha

RomeoDude

The way I see it, it's a lot like Star Wars. Microsoft is the evil Empire, and Apple is the bunch of hippies running around in the forest with teddy bears. Actually, it's exactly like Star Wars. Guess that makes me Uncle Owen.

Evil J

[gphone.corank.com]

MapsRus

I would be more interested in these things if the screens weren't so brutally small, but then again, that's why I don't own a handheld anything (DS, PSP, whatever). So, I'm obviously not in the target demographic.

I still find it hilarious that someone on here with a Bill Gates avatar had the gumption to criticize the new Sony Video Walkman by saying "the Zune has nothing to worry about."

I would wager a guess that more of these are stolen from retailers than purchased.

Evil J

morph3us

Which is exactly why I never got, and will never get, an iPod.

theimmc

That Dude

silomunke

s5

Bauer22

Thanks.

LittleBigPlaneteer

I am not a fanboy of either Microsoft or Apple. I like to think that I'm equal opportuniy, but at this point Microsoft might as well just hand over some marketshare to Apple.

Jekyll22

johncz

@MarkHawk: The only Zune FTW will be if Apple and Creative go out of business. Then maybe Zune FTW

i<3Apple

the Marketplace itself seems slow, but I don't buy DRMed music anyways, I just rip from CDs I own and that was simple with the Zune software, and it automatically synced the albums to my Zune when it was done ripping. really quite painless.

kromekoran

...They're too ugly to be real... right?

Jekyll22

SchruteBuck

Evil J

ANoel

Although now they're going to have a green one according to that, so... spinach poo?

Evil J

Jekyll22

noonas

islandmonk

don 't like the new design.

Brown Zune FTW

MarkHawk

Spyrojoe

joe23521

morph3us

KJA

*giggle*

Spyrojoe

LittleBigPlaneteer

doinka

rfayed

bitfactory

SockMonkey

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!