Working in IT, I always cringe is when the people on top say "we gotta have/do this" with no real reason why other than they heard "everyone else" is using/buying it. Nothing in this world "just works" and to change a stable system because everyone else is doing it is just running towards disaster. Things should never be done because it's "cool", it should be done to rectify significant problems that are impacting employees and/or customers.

Tepoz

I would love to have a civil discussion about this subject, but I don't suffer fools lightly. If someone wants to challenge me and get all personal, bring it on. I noticed that most of the whining neocons don't respond as much after being humiliated (often with their own words) so it's short work. There are always exceptions like Syndication needing to be spanked over the knee like a petulant brat.

Btw, you are no hypocrite...you're just stating the obvious in a very diplomatic fashion, considering how insulting others have been to you. So, on topic: What do you think is the best solution?

johnnyabnormal

Seeing as I haven't I'm a hypocrite. I understand the irony there, no need to reply saying just that.

Krondonian

@Vizi: Your claims of European nations being jealous of the USA are pretty unfounded. Wanting to globalize a global system is smart, if it's done correctly.

You're acting exactly like the stupid American tourist stereotype: Fat, loud & obnoxious....like a little brat jumping up and down on a Thanksgiving feast meant for a family, screaming: "I don't waaaaaaanna shaaaaaaare!".

It's also quite obvious that you're an undereducated dolt who's never been to Europe:

"Lazy", "smug", "really a just a peninsula", "European imperialism still cause pain and suffering this very minute"...

These statements reek of displaced self-hatred. You're basically just describing yourself. You also might want to check your gene pool, being that there's no difference between Americans and Europeans. We're all global nations with mixed ethnicities.

Also: Just in case you needed any clarification...(I know some of you guys have problems understanding English and dealing with reality)...I am American & I'm fed up with faux "Patriotic Americans" like yourself ruining our international image through ignorance, bad attitude and worse foreign policy.

johnnyabnormal

The folks at CERFNET ( with a lot of feedback from other folks on the internet ... including myself through a fidonet gateway ) did cook up the concept of a URL as a means of getting access to the server location of hypertext links ... hypertext originally being cooked up at Apple ( remember Hypercard anyone? ).

After the format for a URL was agreed on on that thread hosted at CERFNET, the RFC was published.

The first proper graphic browser was Mosaic, created by NCA, and organization in the US. Mosaic was the killer app that really launched the WWW.

kbarrett

Vizi

'89?...'89?...the internet was well on its way before then....al gore invented it back in '65

Vizi

PRO7

Wicked1

What ever nation/people evolved the internet, it doesn't matter. All that matters is that the free market has determined who currently controls the internet.

Why would anyone (it just happens to be the USA right now), sacrifice its dominate position? That's plain stupid business. Who in their right mind would truly give up that type of advantage?

If anyone wants part of the internet then let them inovate it away from the leader.

But to ask the leader to share the pie in "fairness" to others is the wrong reason.

CaliforniaKid

Assembly line manufacturing

blood plasma

the transistor

integrated circuits (microchips)

cathode ray tube television!

doofusgumby

johnnyabnormal

@ Syndication,
You are about the most ignorant commenter I have ever run across. I love the USofA just as much as anybody else but it does not take a genius to see that our direction of late is to put it mildly, worrying. The fact that people like you are out there to be honest sickens me.

Ashe

I'm sorry that one warmongering Father, his village idiot Son and the Oil Companies that got them into the Presidency completely ruined USA reputation.
I'm sorry that we busted our ass for the last 200 years to improve human rights through out the world.
I'm sorry that we bothered with WWI and WWII to save most of you from a Hitler Nazi concentration camp or a Stalin Communist Gulag.
I'm sorry that we send out more food and medical aid to the needy than the rest of the world combined.
I'm sorry that you are forced to endure movies like Star Wars.
I am sorry for all the other exports like pharmacy drugs that cost you all so little because we pay so much.
I'm sorry for Microwave ovens.
I'm sorry for velcro and kevlar.
I'm sorry for that whole 1960's muscle car thing.
I'm sorry for that 1950's rock and roll thing.
I'm sorry for PCs (IBM and Apple).
I'm sorry for the telephone. (Alexander Bell)
I'm sorry for the airplane. (Wright Brothers)
I'm sorry for the vaccine for small pox. (Dr. Jenner)

Oh yeah, I'm sorry for the Internet too.
Your countries are so much better than us in everything that you do. Please accept my personal apology for every rude and arogant thing that we have ever done to this world.

nospamsam

"So I take it you wouldn't have gone into Afghanistan either since apparently you claim no one attacked us on 9/11? I think a lot of Democrats would disagree with your assumption that we weren't attacked."

I didn't say we "weren't" attacked. I said no country has attacked us. If being called a 9/11 "truther" is what you want to call me, maybe that would be accurate for a person like you who doesn't know the difference between a bunch of Saudi terrorists flying a planes into the twin towers and a country declaring war on the USA. I can debate your ass up and down about why we went to Afghanistan and Iraq, but either one of those debates probably makes you look pretty stupid (WMD, yellowcake, liberation, etc) so I doubt that you're eager to go there. Before you make yourself look any more the dip-shit, I'm not a Democrat either. Your accusations of "leftist" this and that are in vain. I'm a member of the no bullshit party, your direct and polar opposite.

"It's nice that you resort to ad-hominem attacks for any public figure you don't like. I'm sorry you hate President Bush so much and claim he's the stupidest invidual alive and that your side continues to promote that he was behind 9-11."

You know, if I had said "Bush planned 9/11" you might have a point there...but since I have never claimed anything of that kind, you can stick that lie up your ass as well.

"Well what is going to be? No clear message from left America folks. He's either an evil mastermind or a goddamn retard."

I've never said Bush was intelligent. The guy can't even speak a sentence without a few pauses. So let me set it straight for you: Bush is a total dunce and Cheney is a evil mastermind.

"Yeah you're right, maybe we should just lean back and let Iran have the nuke and let Israel get wiped off the map."

Yet another lame ass statement that has nothing to do with anything I have ever said. What world are you in? Do you have to manufacture/makeup things that I've said to justify your angle? It's really quite desperate and pathetic. If you're going to have a political debate, you better get your facts straight. From here on out, if you say that have I said something that I didn't, I'll just say: Show me the thread/post/quote. If you can't, STFU.

"How is Bush directly responsible for all the death in Iraq?"

I never said "all" death. Unless you imagined I think he is the grim reaper. But if you want to talk about Bush's cut? Very easy: Using the American armed forces to invade Iraq and kill Iraqis. If I hire a mercenary to bump off your family, am I not directly responsible? I guess not in your alternate reality! Oh, and a news flash: Iraqis enjoyed being ruled by Saddam more than being occupied by American troops.

"If you're going to talk about the military getting killed and our troops here and there, don't talk about some other country's people being oppressed and use it as your talking point that we aren't doing it enough."

I never said anything of the sort, so yet again, show me the thread/post/quote or STFU.

"It sounds like you care more if the politician has a (D) by his name rather than an (R) and that's a damn shame son. Methink's you live in California and go to UC Berkley or UC Santa Cruz with your action first and no logic to back up your claims."

Yet again, Show me the thread/post/quote or STFU. The more you type, the more you're proving that retards can use computers.

"For the record, a Democrat did claim Bush was responsible for the CA wildfires"

Like I care? I'm no apologist for the Democrats and I think that's been made quite clear. If you want me to to start heaping on the insane Republican quotes, I've got pages of them for you.

"For the record, all levels of govt. failed during hurrcane katrina"

Well geez. Miracles do happen. I totally agree with you on that.

"As for illegal immigration, you should be concerned that your tax dollars are going to help people who aren't even citizens in this country. It isn't a myth that 70%> of the people in the states do not want illegal immigration because we pay the damn taxes. Why pay higher taxes for people who aren't suppose to be here in the first place?"

Illegal immigration has become a boogie man issue. If you want illegals to pay taxes, maybe we should let them transition from being hard workers to hard working Americans. If you want to complain about taxes, can you imagine what it would cost the agricultural industry (and everyone) to employ everyone for legal minimum wage? About the whole "aren't suppose to be here in the first place?": Unless you're a Native American, you probably can't claim that line with any validity. We're all immigrants, legal and illegal. There are plenty of lazy Americans and plenty of hard working Mexicans who want have a better life. Who do you think deserves a break? You might benefit a little more by thinking of what's best for "us" than thinking "us vs. them". Btw, I find it amusing that those who claim to be "conservatives" are the biggest spenders in politics. Nothing like running up the national debt! Cut (and run) those taxes and borrow some more! It took George Washington through Reagan to run up 1 trillion. Bush has gone to 9 trillion within his presidency alone. If you are so concerned about your taxes, maybe you'd change your chicken hawk stance and stop trying to justify the Commander in Chimp.

johnnyabnormal

syndication, johnnyrandom said:
"No country attacked us", not "no one attacked us" as you said.

ianken: not a single person here said "Chavez is a better choice than Bush".

it's ok to have a differing opinion, but read carefully and don't put words in people's mouths. it nullifies your point.

manyou07

So I take it you wouldn't have gone into Afghanistan either since apparently you claim no one attacked us on 9/11? I think a lot of Democrats would disagree with your assumption that we weren't attacked. Iraq, yeah sure you can debate why we went in there, but there you go again into your leftist rant that no one attacked us on 9-11. Thanks for playing bud. You sound like a 9-11 truther to me. We need Bill Mahr and Bill Clinton to shout your ass down from spreading tinfoil arguments.

It's nice that you resort to ad-hominem attacks for any public figure you don't like. I'm sorry you hate President Bush so much and claim he's the stupidest invidual alive and that your side continues to promote that he was behind 9-11. Well what is going to be? No clear message from left America folks. He's either an evil mastermind or a goddamn retard. Apparently no one assumes he's just another person with different views much like anyone else in this nation, but don't talk to a leftist about that.

Yeah you're right, maybe we should just lean back and let Iran have the nuke and let Israel get wiped off the map. Not our problem until it comes to our doorstep right? You sound like Neville Chamberlain to me and his tactic of appeasement to Nazi Germany. (Oh they're just annexing Austria, nothing to worry about, Oh Iran just claimed the holocaust never happened, oh nothing to worry about)

How is Bush directly responsible for all the death in Iraq? Regardless if we invaded or not, people in Iraq would still be dying in torture chambers and I admit the situation in Iraq is not going well and more death has taken place, but you sound like you probably would blame him for considering both options, much like the Hollywood left complains that we aren't doing anything in Darfur where people are getting killed. If you're going to talk about the military getting killed and our troops here and there, don't talk about some other country's people being oppressed and use it as your talking point that we aren't doing it enough. It sounds like you care more if the politician has a (D) by his name rather than an (R) and that's a damn shame son. Methink's you live in California and go to UC Berkley or UC Santa Cruz with your action first and no logic to back up your claims.

For the record, a Democrat did claim Bush was responsible for the CA wildfires
[digg.com]

For the record, all levels of govt failed during hurrcane katrina. No use blaming just the federal government when Govt Blanco and Mayor Nagin could've rescued more people will all those buses there.

As for illegal immigration, you should be concerned that your tax dollars are going to help people who aren't even citizens in this country. It isn't a myth that 70%> of the people in the states do not want illegal immigration because we pay the damn taxes. Why pay higher taxes for people who aren't suppose to be here in the first place?

Syndication

ianken

ianken

johnnyabnormal

johnnyabnormal

Wow, you are so unhinged from reality that I almost feel bad for you.

"Did President Bush deny the Holocaust never happened?"

He's probably too stupid to even know what the Holocaust is.

"The fact is that terrorists will continue to hide in places filled with innocent people and innocent people will die as a result."

Yeah, and we better not let any of them get onto a plane with explosive (??) water either... Or wait, maybe we could stop invading countries that haven't attacked us? Maaaaaaaybe?

"I find it confusing why you would say Bush is responsible for all these deaths."

Yeah, it's not like he's ordered any troops to go anywhere! Idiot.

"I think you forgot your Koolaid, you're one step away from blaming hurricane katrina or the california wildfires on Bush too. Oh wait, some Democrats already tried to do those things."

No, the Democrats AND the Republicans just bitch slapped the veto pen out of Bush's hand to finally get some more funding to rebuild New Orleans. It's about time.

"FYI: The NSA has been monitoring communications for over 50 years. What makes anyone think it started with Bush? You'd have to be delusional to believe that the NSA just started wiretapping everybody when Bush got into office"

Uh, nobody on this thread said it started with Bush, you moron. Bush just made it legal to do so without a warrant. Tell me, are you one of those bat-shit crazy dwindling percentiles who voted for Bush twice and still think he's a good prez? Does the truth hurt so bad that you'd rather avoid it and live in a paranoid alternate reality where your favorite presidential candidates jerk off to "24"? If you want to see some Koolaid, you better look in your own damn cup.

johnnyabnormal

Way to just change the topic. Actually you will have to pay that hospital bill in the form of taxes and not just your own either. We'll be paying for all of those people crossing the border as well since certain states are just fine with handing out drivers licenses to them.

The American people will be paying. Don't let anyone tell you Universal Healthcare does not have a cost to you.

Syndication

PRO7

I guess you could say Truman killed more people with the dropping of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki huh? You leftists need to get your facts straight. If you're going to come out and criticize collateral damage against Bush, you damn well better criticize Roosevelt for authorizing the Manhattan Project and Truman authorizing the decision to drop the bomb. Where's your outrage over that? Huh?

The fact is innocent people die in war and no one disputes that. It happens in any war and will continue to happen. The US Military is doing its damndest to prevent unnecessary casualties on the ground and has been under major scrutiny by the media for questionable deaths at the hands of US Soldiers. Seems we have a hell of a lot more oversight on the situation than the terrorists attacking us.

The fact is that terrorists will continue to hide in places filled with innocent people and innocent people will die as a result. As we have seen in Lebanon, terrorists hid in civilian populations to try to blame the Israeli's on killing innocent civilians. The only problem is that we have video of katyusha rockets being fired from terrorists hiding in civilian locations against the Israeli military.

I find it confusing why you would say Bush is responsible for all these deaths. A large part of it has to do with terrorists hiding in populations and blowing up market places and new police recruits. You can't blame that on Bush.

We have been fighting a war on terror for a long time since USS Cole and the car bombing of the American Embassy in Kenya in 1998.

Ain't it fun how leftists try to rationalize how Bush is completely responsible for all deaths in Iraq. I think you forgot your Koolaid, you're one step away from blaming hurricane katrina or the california wildfires on Bush too. Oh wait, some Democrats already tried to do those things.

Syndication

Ain't that fun?

PRO7

wetworker

Move to Venezuela if you think Hugo Chavez is a shining example of Democracy. Bush sure as hell hasn't shut the New York Times or close down MoveOn.org with all the smear articles printed about him, yet Hugo Chavez can shutdown tv stations that don't like him.

You're only kidding yourself if you think George Bush is worse than Hugo Chavez. There are active Leftists who think Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not as bad as our President. Did President Bush deny the Holocaust never happened? I don't exactly like the President after the whole immigration debacle our nation is in, but the depth which leftists go to defame him is insane. Please lay off the doobies and kool aid brah. If you think the United States is bad, wait till you've lived in the socialist/dictator utopias you guys always claim are better.

Now back on topic. Is the United States actively censoring information on the internet? Is the United States taxing the internet? Is the United States preventing free speech on the internet? Hell NO. Leave it the way it is. People can spread all the hate or goodwill they want on the internet now. Saying we should let other organizations control the Internet as a means to levy taxes is just tomfoolery. There is no nation on this planet that is more giving than the United States. The US gives roughly 2/3 of the foreign aid to other countries around this world in terms of food, shelter and relief. The US ALSO FOOTS MOST OF THE BILL FOR THE UNITED NATIONS AS WELL. All you USA haters who claim we live in the worse place in the world can suck it seriously.

FYI: The NSA has been monitoring communications for over 50 years. What makes anyone think it started with Bush? You'd have to be delusional to believe that the NSA just started wiretapping everybody when Bush got into office.

Syndication

johnnyabnormal

When you come in with an open mind and find you are now part of the system...you understand it's validity and notice the others who see through thier own prism seem all that more distorted.

knappoleon

[www.sethf.com]

@nospamsam: Ooops. I'm really sorry about that. How ironic, huh? Lack of coffee is not a good thing.

johnnyabnormal

eh? If your going to insult people perhaps you should make sure you're insulting the right person.

Since you took issue with someone else about mistaken identity, I thought you may want to address this. I am fully aware of Gore's contributions to the internet.

@toujoursdan: You are absolutely correct. To clarify, I am not championing the use of English. I am stating a fact about the need for primary languages.

nospamsam

[www.rudyrucker.com]

johnnyabnormal

Man that's twisting reality, what's the body count of Hugo Chavez compare to bush.

wetworker

johnnyabnormal

Nastro

[en.wikipedia.org]

[www.sethf.com]

@bbfreak: UN? I'm trying to figure out what your btw is about. I haven't mentioned the UN in this thread once. I'm not a advocate of the UN, US Govt. or the ISPs like ATT. To me, that's comparing bad, worse and worst.

@dead_red_eyes: I couldn't agree with you more. It's a sad state of affairs and I don't trust any political party in the US to fix any of these problems.

johnnyabnormal

Careful, French was the international language (lingua franca) as recently as 50 years ago and Latin before that. These things can change quickly.

toujoursdan

rockboy04

See: [www.internetworldstats.com]

And while North America has the highest penetration of internet usage, more Asians use it as Americans. Only 20% of the world's internet users are American or Canadian.

See: [www.internetworldstats.com]

toujoursdan

nojo

Like it or not, English is the primary internet language. Just like English is the language for international airline flight communication. Russian pilots that want to be able to fly to Paris must speak English. This isn't a conspiracy. It is common sense.
Eventually, someone will invent the universal translator and this "debate" will be moot.

As far as the US doing a good job at managing the Internet, I have seen a lot to complain about but I doubt any other country (including Switzerland) could do a better job right now.

nospamsam

Mine, mine, mine!

bdkennedy1

[www.ronpaul2008.com]
[www.teaparty07.com]

t206

The fact that we can confidently use our cell phones, FM radios or over-the-air TV sets without worrying about radio interference from Chinese tankers communicating with each other offshore shows how well they do their job. Most of us don't give it a second thought.

toujoursdan

on topic, we invented it, the rest of the world can suck it.

doofusgumby

For example, you are limited by the fact URLs don't allow non-English characters in addresses so é, è, ê, à, ç, ï, ñ, etc. cannot be used, which often changes the meanings of words in French, Spanish, Swedish and other languages. It's even worse for those who use non-Latin alphabets.

A lot of non-English speakers (particularly in the Far East, Middle East and India ) want changes in internet protocol so that they can use them, but the US-based agencies have been slow to move.

toujoursdan

As long as the UN isn't running it, please. O.O;; That's a scary thought indeed. By the way Johnny Random, the UN is far more useless than the United States Government. Sure we've got our problems, but again the system does work. Not perfectly mind you, but at the same time there is nothing that can't be fixed or improved upon.

bbfreak

While an "internet" was developed by DARPA, the actual World Wide Web was developed by the Swiss Lab - CERN. Although CERN isn't Swiss per se, it is a lab funded by a conglomerate of 20 something European states.

[www.ibiblio.org]

Lee was the one originally credited with the WWW's development. Read up kiddies.

Acemonster

just to add 2 cents, it's in the best interest of the democratic building of this country and others like europe (so abused by some of our government representatives) to have a free and not controled internet. where the opinions and facts are monitored by us, the users who are the information creators.

the issue is that centralization often comes with censorship, and a complete unmonitored network also often becomes anarchist.

Also, when the us (and i mean companies and government) decided or in better words, had no other than allow and commercialize it, became a service, where there is no owner but manager.

internet access, like many other things is regulated by central governments. Take the example of african country of Ethiopia. The goverment regulates the use of it by restricting hi speed (and I mean cable access) only for few government related people. the rest of the people does have computers but they share few phone access lines. In china is different. the goverment allows hi speed technologies, but controls the information that passes throug their net blocking content and forcing companies like google and yahoo to comply to their demands or they get kicked out.

american companies cannot afford to lose access to the chinese market, so they give in to the government demands. Where is the stand of the corparations in favor of their best customer? well is not in their by laws or regulations to stand for us, is not their job, sadly.

anyway, too long my post for just two cents.

dysthymia

"I would say that your story was a bad example, considering what Germany would have done with its invention"

I don't think that the States are using the internet in a fair way. I guess you agree with that.

The reason why countries want full control of Internet in their countries is becuause the US can't be trusted any more.

Companys like Bayer, GSK, Siemens, Toyota, Nokia, VW, Samsung, etc, aren't able to send any important information via e-mail as major discoveries can be caught by the US government and taken use of. That is the only reason why they want to control it.

PRO7

Kim98

I think that if we Americans have anything to fear these days, it's the damn patriot act. Things like the FBI being able to make their own warrants without needing a judge is pretty messed up.

dead_red_eyes

[en.wikipedia.org]

I don't necessarily think it's dead.

dead_red_eyes

WilCon

However, the very thing we're talking about here, the Internet, is, perhaps more than any other technology, the cause of a shrinking world. I suggest that it is important for democratic Americans to remember, as we enjoy our hegemony in the market, that the Internet is a potent source of information and potentially a means for great good in the world.

Shouldn't ALL nations have equal Internet access?

countalmaviva

frigg

WilCon

CEOself

Like it or not, the US has less than 6% of the world's population and less than 23% (and declining) of the world's economic activity. It's in America's best interest that the internet serve everyone in the world, since it is a way to market American values, goods and services abroad and grow your economy. (I live in Canada but buy goods from US based Amazon.com all the time.)

Silly uber-patriotic comments about other nations developing their own systems if they don't like American control serve only to cut your nose off despite your face and limit your own businesses from competing internationally and bringing prosperity to your own economy.

Some kind of international cooperation needs to happen to maintain some order to the system. This already is in place when it comes to radio and television through the International Telecommunications Union, which is successful enough that we aren't even aware of it's existence, much less of its coordination of national regulations governing the radio and TV spectrum.

toujoursdan

argonaut

All this frothing neo neo con new republican bullshit is what makes me sure that the Internet needs to be moved out of the US. One day when President Ron Paul goes truly nuts and decrees that a giant wall by built around his glorious United States of Insularity, all the rest of the world willie left high and dry. Part of me hopes he'll do it soon do that our, slightly less militant governments can get on with constructing a better system. Roll on the euronet (sorry rest of the world, it has a better ring than globenet...)

mnit

Usama

Wait, what?

Usama

nospamsam

As far as sharing the internet goes, what exactly do the other countries want right now that they don't have? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The only concern I can see is with the domain names; don't they all have to be in just Arabic numbers and Latin letters? If other countries want to register a domian name in their language with their characters, that should be ok. English should just be the standard for simplicity's sake, but if countries want to deviate, then it is thier loss of site hits and revenue.

So far, I haven't really seen a threat to the internet by keeping the US in charge. Ignore the Iraq war or anything else of high controversy that doesn't relate to the matter at hand, look just at the US track record with the internet. So far, hasn't everything been working out? I'm not a freakazoidAmericaIsPerfect kinda guy, but I do belive our freedom of speech laws will reflect on the safety of the internet.

Sorry about the long comment, I rant in the morning.

whiteknight89

In the page you yourself link to, it says:

"The World Wide Web began as a CERN project called ENQUIRE, initiated by Tim Berners-Lee and Robert Cailliau in 1990. Berners-Lee and Cailliau were jointly honored by the ACM in 1995 for their contributions to the development of the World-Wide Web.
Based on the concept of hypertext, the project was aimed at facilitating sharing information among researchers. The first website went on-line in 1991. On 30 April 1993, CERN announced that the World Wide Web would be free to anyone. A copy of the original first webpage, created by Berners-Lee, is kept here."

The Internet protocols however did not start at CERN as you say.

Kim98

trekkie

the main servers should be split out throughout the world just incase something happens, bomb, terriost attack, asteriod etc.

7 in north america, 1europe, 2asia, 1oceania, 1hawaii

utube2007

nospamsam

btw Your information is incorrect. CERN did not invent any of those. They are an organization for Nuclear Research. They used their own version of the Internet for their networks (a modified version invented by Arpanet) and refused to use the more widely used conventions. Their networks also remained isolated from the internet until 1989.

go here for an accurate article on the Origin of the Internet [www.stratford.edu]

or go here to read a quick summary of CERN

nospamsam

Marty_MacFly

The Internet as it is today hasn't been invented by any single developer, institution or nation. Stop commenting out of your asses. The theoretical and script-associated basis for what is commonly referred to as the Internet has actually been simultaneously developed in several places. And that's how it will be further down the road.
The current state of the Internet isn't the non plus ultra some commenters seem to think it is. There's plenty of room for innovation, improvement and, eventually, replacement.
And limiting 'net maintenance to just one nation is short-sighted, to say the least. I'm not saying it will change anytime soon, because there's just too much economic interest behind the status quo, but the current state of affairs is not one that completely benefits the system.

Hvedhrungr

There are a fair amount of precedences. The USA is always giving away systems and equipment to other countries. Just look at the Carribean countries. Their Coast Guards and Navys run just about exclusively on ships that the US decommissioned and gave away.

We did invent the internet but I think we got our 20 years of copyright.

As long as I can view my pron, I don't care who runs the system. lawl

nospamsam

Bowler Hat

my point: SHARING IS CAREING

swartz

The recent US legislation affects only purchases shipped to people in the US from a US supplier. If a Canadian (for example) buys from a US company over the net, it will still *hit* customs on its way to the buyer's address and be taxed under our government's laws and regs.

Taming

stojadinovicp

Krondonian

PRO7

johnnyabnormal

@syndication: regardless of @johnny's comments, why would you think that a person can only complain if they are living in the absolute worst, most vile and horrible situation ever imaginable, and anything less is not worth complaining about? can't we say "america is great, but there are some things i'd like to change"? overall i like my job, for instance (it beats being a janitor), but there are still plenty of things i don't like about it.

manyou07

If you think the death of Habeas Corpus isn't losing your rights then you need to wake the fuck up from your pipe dream. I'm not claiming to lose rights, I have proof. I can bitch about the worst president the US has ever had if I so please, so don't think for a second I'm going to listen to your echo chamber "fall into line" crap.

johnnyabnormal

DailyKos Much? You sound like you get your talking points from that website.

Amurrrrrreka is EVIL, WE're all living under the tyranny of George Bush. Blah blah blah, If you want to see a real dictatorship, look at Hugo Chavez, praised heavily from fellow leftists such as actor Danny Glover. Do you really think George Bush is WORSE THAN HUGO CHAVEZ? It's amazing that a good portion of the left do. I haven't seen ole Bush close down the New York Times, so quit bitching about how many rights you claim to lose everyday and how you claim to live in a police state. Things aren't as bad in the US as you make them out to be.

Syndication

While it is true that TCP/IP protocols were developed in the US it is worth noting that the World Wide Web was developed in Europe. From Wikipedia:

"The network gained a public face in the 1990s. On August 6, 1991, CERN, which straddles the border between France and Switzerland, publicized the new World Wide Web project, two years after British scientist Tim Berners-Lee had begun creating HTML, HTTP and the first few Web pages at CERN."


@Syndication:
Oil for Food was a US initiative launched by Bill Clinton's administration.

Genocide in Rwanda? And the USA has done what? And the same applies to Darfur. What about human rights abuses in Iraq (by the USA) or in Guantanamo Bay.

Or what about the the US supporting and even bringing dictators to power (Idi Amin in Uganda, Batista in Cuba, Pinochet in Chile, Ian Smith in Zimbabwe/Rhodesia and the list goes on).

Quite often the US has been involved in subverting democratic processes when it hasn't been happy with the results.

The USA is hardly in any position to claim to have the moral upper hand.

Matt

Nastro

The Internet isn't as American as many here would like to think. The WWW for example was invented in Europe. And that's all besides the point anyway. The Internet isn't today what the Arpanet was originally. The Internet today is truly global and its servers, switches, routers and most importantly USERS are spread all over the world. The technology used to power it isn't only American: the WWW is European of origin, Linux, the most common server operating system, is Finnish in origin as is IRC - the forefather of instant messengers. In just a few years phones will be the most common end-user access points to the Internet and most phones are made by Nokia (Finnish), Sony-Ericsson (Japanese-Swedish), Samsung or LG (Korean), NEC, Sharp (Japanese), etc. They run ARM chips (British) and are mainly manufactured in various parts of Asia (e.g. Taiwan, China). Coming to think of it, someone could argue that only the lowest layers of the Internet such as DNS, IP, TCP, UDP etc. are of American origin.

Many people are saying that the US origins of the Internet should make it American controlled. That's like saying that the European origins of Americans should make the US country controlled by Europe. Times change, the condititions change. And the Internet is no longer a military Arpanet for maintaining communications during a nuclear war. It's now a global communications network between people and businesses and it's way too big and important for any one country to have control over.

Ironically, exactly the same original reason - decentralization to ensure no single point-of-failure - is why the USA should give up it's control! It's in its own interest too not to have a single point of failure for it!

Kim98

Do we live in a perfect world?

NO. So everyone quit crying. You want to control the internets? Go make new ones. It's kinda like the spanking the American Dollar is currently taking. A global market will sort itself out, be it a large country that has invested a lot in the US quietly making big steps, or a general consensus of other countries filling in where the US is lacking. Or the US maintaining its economic backbone.

It's all about money. It's ALWAYS about money.

smackswell

Soulcannon

johnnyabnormal

SpacemanSpiff

johnnyabnormal

dle5

The original goal was to have a decentralized network in America. Why should America give up control to organizations like the UN who name Human Rights abusers to the Human Rights Watch Council? Oil for Food? Ring a bell anyone?

If the UN is mad at you, they'll just send you an angry letter, they won't do anything. Genocide in Rwanda? Jajaweed killings in Darfur? The UN HASN'T DONE ANYTHING IN THESE SITUATIONS. We've seen this time and time again.

UN = an ineffective organization that does very little in the world.

Syndication

johnnyabnormal

Syndication

In the meantime, I think they should figure out a way to address spam without trampling on privacy, and get people moving on ipv6 and worry about using the US's diminishing status as a cudgel to get power of the Internet later. (It's our own damn fault that this is something people would even bring up.)

storm

s5

The US govt developed it, the US firms powered it, and so the natural power base is here. If those other nations were to plop down the billions needed to create their own infohubs I am sure they could increase their power.

archercc

Ethan Allison

lafond66

You guys lost your right to have a rational discussion right away by implying support for your failed chimpy POTUS. If you want a real taste of "the usual diarrhea ranting" why don't you turn on Faux News or read your favorite Coulter/Malkin blog. Maybe you guys can keep the fire alive over there with some nice "Global Climate Change is a Hoax invented by Al Gore!" threads.

That aside, I'm not a fan of Taxing what (R) Ted "Bridge to Nowhere" Stevens from Alaska called "The Intertubes"...but I'm sure he's too busy being investigated by the FBI to comment on this one. Or maybe he's sucking dick in a public bathroom somewhere along with (how many scandals this year?) the other closet case homophobe Republitard hypocrites.

@Vizi:

"I can think of several billion dollars of foreign aid that could better be spent in the States."

Yeah, I can think of 200 billion a year that could be spent on better spent in the United States. Gee, I wonder where it's all going?

johnnyabnormal

You mean like that European Brit who created the World Wide Web in 1989?

nojo

Net neutrality would be a cold war if the internet systems were divided.(Oh, We don't liek you now, so now you are cut off from OUR system)

The best case as always is the open source, let everyoen have there own pie and be at peace.

But yeah, that I leave up to Google to handle.

Mixiboi

Mmsupermario

Vizi

Nastro

Nastro

deedrit

I'm not about to jump on that bandwagon, but since we do live in a global economy these days, and the internet really is a meta-space, I think the 12 main hubs should be spread throughout the world.

spock11384