I used to be a Rhapsody subscriber, but it was ultra buggy and their support was awful. I really like the subscription feature of the Zune marketplace, and if Apple did the same thing, I wouldn't even have looked at the Zune.

I think iTunes has gotten a little bloated and that it looks dated now. I would like to see better playlist functionality in the Zune software, but overall, it's a decent piece of sofware, IMO. At least MS didn't try to integrate this into their OS like so many other things.

AugustDragon

That it crashed both my PC and my device several times when I tried to update the SW and FW, was also really fun. Microsoft really has that whole "consumer delight" thing down pat, as in "I was delighted that the whole system didn't go up in flames during the process."

Microsoft can suck it.

MarcFen

Holy hell, you equate the difference between the two versions of the Zune to the difference between the first gen iPod and the Classic?

Somebody clearly doesn't know one, the other, or both product lines.

someToast

mnbrandon

I only have a 2.4ghz dual core with 3 gigs of ram though.. Hardware requirements must have changed..

Brentis

SFDJ

I don't like the 5 star rating in iTunes as much as I'd like, say, a 10 star rating system. The Zune system is just unacceptable. I'm not a 14 year old girl.

Sqube

cumbirnard

You can't switch between browse and list mode in the Zune-Content pane. Which basically means, if you're like me, and your player is stuffed, you can't go back and delete files individually.

D:

MIKEAWESOME

Roflgoat

TurboFool

Sorry, Zune. I'm going to have to stick with Apple this round. MS removed too many features in the name of appealing to the masses, in my opinion.

Sqube

kingofmars

I'm looking to break out of the iPod monopoly, anyhow. I might have to look into getting one of these suckers when my 60GB Photo dies on me.

If only someone would make a dock connector adapter so I could use a non-iPod with my iPod alarm clock...

shifuimam

AlexNC

[cgi.ebay.com]

I don't know how much more life it gave me, but I figured why not since I was gonna crack it open anyway to drop in an 80G drive. Fit like a glove... unlike the HD. Runs great though and the battery lasted long enough to deal with my flights from PIT to SJC.

junk

middy

Tacit admission that WMP is dogshit

ADismalScience

yardameus

"kinda like iPod gen1 to iPod Classic only microsoft took 1 year and apple took 6"

How innovative of Microsoft to have achieved all that in such a short time when there wasn't a product they could model theirs off of!

Dearhaw

firesign

DigitalReaper

I was also holding out hope that smart playlists would be moving to the device just like the iPod. Strike two. Oh well, maybe MS will fix things shortly.

Alershka

The 30 & the 80 still have EQ.

Abouna

I discovered that if you're cursor isn't in the search field and you start typing it will at least take you to that spot in the respective list that you are working with.

Admiral Ackbar

I like to listen to audio books and it sucks to have to fast-forward at only 6X speed through a 1 hour file to get to the 97% mark!

That is the single feature that keeps me interested in the iPods. Are there any other players that allow quick rewind/fast-forwarding?

PigVenus

I've also laboriously rated every song in my library, and I'd hate to loose that functionality as I make a smart playlist for every artist that contains all songs greater than 3 stars, and syncs those playlists to my iPod.

For Microsoft's sake, I'd hope they add full ID3 editing, ratings, and smart playlists soon.

rfaulder

"You don't want to have to manage your music library in both iTunes and Zune, which tips the scales in Apple's iPod classic's favor."

It seems to assume that the reader actually likes iTunes. I can tell you that there is at least one person (namely, me) who considers it horrible. The old Zune software certainly isn't much better (haven't played around with the new one too much), but I wouldn't say that it 'tips the scales in...iPod's favor'.

Cupajo

phantam

ITS COMPLETELY REWRITTEN!

Yes the zune v2 software was rewritten from the ground up people, the old one was based off of WMP which made it a bit clumsy, the new software was streamlined and made to work faster and more stable for the zune specifically.

As for the other features like id3 editing etc i think those will come in future iterations of the new software that's been rebuilt,

microsoft has made major strides from zune1 to zune2, kinda like iPod gen1 to iPod Classic only microsoft took 1 year and apple took 6

phantam

long live The Smiths.

tr

They also need to make some sort of decision about whether they're going to use the Zune software or Windows Media Player. That's THREE separate AV players they've got going in Vista (Media Center, Windows Media Player, and the Zune software). At the very least, it needs to be pared down to two (Media Center and (WMP OR Zune)) - like Apple has already done, interestingly enough, with Front Row and iTunes. At least Microsoft's 10' UI doesn't suck, I guess.

Microsoft is slowly but surely getting it right - I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Zune 3 finally starts making Apple worried. It's just too bad they're still completely disorganized in their home entertainment division when it comes to integration.

I did go and buy a Zune 30, though. $90 is a fantastic price for one.

Erwos

Every feature listed as "missing" is something that I typically consider "extraneous" when using iTunes. End users should have few concerns the ID3 layer; they never will if they buy or rip their music. With Oink gone and the RIAA getting more aggressive on sharing every day I think the ID3 layer will become less and less relevant and this design reflects that future state. As for playlists, I just want a good shuffle system rather than having to cheat one out myself. I don't understand folks who fussily categorize and re-categorize their music; I just want a "sounds-like" button to hit when a fast track pops on my shuffle during driving or a slow track pops on late at night. More complex attributes (ie bpm)through legit music purchasing/ripping/catagorizing on CDDB/analogues should have made this possible by now.

The heart system sounds like something I might actually use at some point ever, whereas 5-star rankings are too abstract to bother with. Now, rather than developing some inane differentiation system between, say, 3 and 5 stars I can simply mark things as favorites. I'd bet dollars to donuts that market research would reveal a strong end-user tendency to provide 5 or no/1-star ratings, which is a strong argument for flatter rankings like the "heart" system.

ADismalScience

The loss of the smart playlists is a real bummer though - I used them almost exclusively. Even worse, they don't even grab a snapshot of the current songs in the playlist and make a static version during the import process. I really hope these come back with a future software update.

smith186

If I didn't have to work today, I'd play around with it some more now..

neekap

great post giz, it was fantastic

shrimpster44

nojo

iTunes on Windows dupes music into hidden directories with abstract names? That blows.

On Mac, it's just ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/[Artist Name]/[Album Name]/[Track Name.ext]

someToast

sugardeath

Rususeruru

Anyway, looking forward to checking out the new Zunes. I would totally go for the Ipod Touch if it was over 30 gigs, but flash players don't have nearly enough storage.

dickrhee

The review as I read it: Zune 2.0 = prettier and higher capacity 1.0. Software = iTunes with fewer features, but can be combined with precise and excellent PC software (EAC, Tag Assistant, foobar etc.). New firmware = full WiFi support, which is something the iPod Classic lacks. Translation: Most of the benefits of iPod/iTunes but oriented toward Windows users, all for $85-100 if you pick up an old Zune. Otherwise, the feature set might be out-priced by the ubiquitous iPod, and out-capacitied by the Classic 160GB.

The watchful can pick up a Zune refurb for obscenely little money. The full-featured WiFi bespeaks important updates to come, and I doubt Microsoft will abandon early adopters when they need to hold onto every member of their user base.

Echophiliac

Taking into account it's semi-baked PC performance ... care to make a case for this claim? Maybe another article?

lianna_g

Ultraorange

No iTunes is not the best for PC and Mac, I want a program like adobe bridge/light room for my audio, pictures and video

Ultraorange

DJJS

I guess V2 goes live at 1am PT...

can't wait!

nakmario

djay1717

I dont have a Zune, but i would like to try it out. All i can get from [www.zune.net] is the old version of the software.

Andham

Padriac

I do, however, love the simplicity of the UI. I've never used the Zune, but I can see exactly where I need to go and what to do just from looking at the images you've posted.

Also, iTunes takes 7-10 seconds to load on my iMac. That's just ridiculous! It's gotten way too bloated. That said, is the Zune software responsive or sluggish like iTunes?

Finally, that's a great, no-frills review.

DW

djay1717

DrChaos

And where are the deals with Starbucks to build a real social??

Just producing a player that's two years out of date isn't really raising the bar is it - no matter how nice and glossy it is....

MINI Driver

helfrez

Andham

Brian Lam

iTunes = bloat on Windows, and I don't like the way it uses vast tracts of hard drive space OSX-style without telling you where and how it's doing it.

That might float the boat of ease-of-use proponents, but us hardcore PC users don't like media programs that duplicate music into hidden directories with abstract names.

And the updater post-iPhone has been a pain in the ass (due to this arms war they're having with the hackers, apparently). Is it seriously too hard for Apple software engineers to make an updater that doesn't steal focus from whatever else I'm doing to tell me every little thing that's going on?

It's also a memory hog and anything if stable under Windows with large, disparate music collections. Especially if you're running samba shares or the like.

So, my comment stands. It's not a great Windows app, and certainly not "the best music manager software on desktops".

Cheers.

splines

Brian Lam

packetsniffer

Was "Ummmm, what's a [blank] again?" ever funny?

I mean sure, I know it's not now, but was it ever?

someToast

lucky_you

Brian Lam

djay1717

djay1717

For hardcore music fans, iTunes really is the best music management app. The combination of library organization, ID3 editing, artwork and pdf handling, smart playlist options, podcast and video and audiobook support...it's amazing what it does if you learn to use it.

Also, if you are on a Mac, it uses very little resources and there are HUNDREDS of AppleScripts that plug-in and do some really amazing things for iTunes. It's one of the most stable and extensible music platforms on Mac and a great library manager on Windows. ([dougscripts.com])

(I've used iTunes on Windows for a year and OS X for the last 2 years with a 123.95GB (23697 song) library. I've also use WMP10/11, MusicMatch, RhythmBox, J River Media Jukebox... None can match the feature set and music management capabilities of iTunes)

eclipxe

djay1717

djay1717

sisedi

DJJS

And yet, somehow that translates into Gizmodo having an Apple crush. You douches are no better than the "Apple fanboys" you claim always interjecting Apple this and Apple that on non-Apple news. Except for you guys, everything's gotta be Apple fanboy this, Apple biased Gizmodo that. Do yourself a favor (and everybody else a bigger one) by stop coming to the site if its contents piss you off so much.

Dearhaw

Kinda like this: The new Zune is still big and stupid and is still just as thick as it was before while the iPod has gotten almost impossibly thin. Also the screen is tiny compared to the iPod Nano's which is nearly 10 quadrillion pixels bigger!!

See? Nice and blown way too far out of proportion to be fake.

CarbonatedWater

Zayniac

You've got to be fucking joking.

splines

luckypictures

Blue_Mountain

pantag

getgreg

I got lemonade up my nose now. Thanks Giz, haven't had a good laugh in a while, been needing one...

Penguin4x4

xanadu1979

i also heard that you could just import your library from itunes or wmp, is this true?

jbhitter24

If the biggest complaint you have with iTunes is that it asks you to update too often, the solution is simple - don't update. If you can live with the current features you have, just ignore it when it asks to update.

Tonicboy

Ron-Mexico

I have watched a few run throughs, read the reviews, and I cannot find mention of the equalizer. Is there an equalizer in the new firmware????

luckypictures

you choose one of the albums and before you hit "finish" there is an "edit" option next to the album art where you can edit pretty much everything you need to. and infact if it works i will much prefer this way to the old way anyways because you really only need to edit tags when the software cant identify the song/album anyways.

jagowar

My fears is that the new software will do the same thing, but make it a bigger pain to fix. I've resorted to using a free utility to clean up my ID3 tags, and the new version of the software only seems to reinforce using it that much more.

I'm NOT trying to plug any forums, but this how-to and link to the freeware was a tremendous help for me: [www.zuneboards.com]

Now I'm off to make a backup of my music "just in case" in preparation for tomorrow!

neekap

Mistake IMO.

Also like the multiple views of old - the rating system was kind of weak in the old system.

Brentis

Wait, Zune 2 doesn't have gapless playback?

That's like what I considered (as an iPod fan) the shittiest thing about the iPod until they finally got it right with the 5.5G (and retrospectively with 5G). I'd always figured it had to do with processing power of the CPU or something limiting it, but Zune 2 coming out a year after 5.5G iPod w/o gapless looks really bad...

I've always said that I won't to anything from my iPod, not so much for the hardware per se, or even the several dozens of stuff I've bought from iTMS, but because of the software--iTunes. If MS keeps it up (or down, I guess) with their crippled software, there's no way in the world a Zune will be considered. It's a shame, too, cuz I do think the hardware of the new Zunes are actually quite good.

Dearhaw

johnson

That really seems like an "Oh fuck, guys, remember how I forgot my keys on the table last week? Well, I did the same with the ID3 tags in the software. We're going to need to fix that. :|"

Actually, I'd like to hear an official statement from the Zune team since that seems like such a huge misstep.

MIKEAWESOME

PuckOTG22

gascan555

DaveLG526

d.omen

xanadu1979

Its like they wanted to improve on Apple's minimalism, but instead they just screwed themselves up. I bet Steve Jobs reads Zune product announcements when he wants to get a good night's sleep.

mullingitover

neekap

Then again, the iPod Touch is sexy.

KJA

ryan7107

djkevo

How are the podcast listings? Are we able to get pretty much everything we get in itunes? (major stuff lie rev3 not weird obscure things)

JoeStalin

That's terrible. I don't even think the ID3 tag editing in iTunes is very good.... but not having it at all is a major loss of functionality. Especially when it's a feature that could be invisible to standard users that might not want to mess with that.

Keebler

NeverForgetToCheckYourReferences

Any help would be great. :)

bgivnin

estephanovich

You can but it takes a while because their big. So they recommend USB

Cursemaster0

Jason Chen

kingofmars

takemetoyourtoaster

junk