Just wanted to say, a big thanks, and appreciate you sharing the link to that video. It was indeed a good watch.

-Core-

XJ_4x4

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

This has been tried in court several times, and with varying results. Until you have an explicit right to privacy, it will always be open to interpretation.

AlanJC

johnnyabnormal

Hello_Newman

Pull out of Iraq. Pull out of Afghanistan. Don't attack Iran. Dismantle the 700 military bases in 130 countries. Stop your support of the illegal occupation and the criminal atrocities against Palestinian civilians in Israel. Stop invading other peoples countries and killing them. Stop trying to overthrow foreign governments (40 since WWII). Stop torturing people. Stop using 40% of the world's resources when you only have 6% of it's people. Impeach bush and cheney and then put them on trial for war crimes. Apologize to world and pay reparations for the millions you have killed.
And if in the unlikely event there are more "terrorist" attacks, treat it like the criminal matter that it is and arrest and convict the criminals who did it.
Oh, Benz, I almost forgot - learn to get over your pathetic cowardice and fear and start living life like a man and a true human being instead of some pompous overlord of the world, we are not interested.

Gary_7vn

Greenwald is wrong and if you asked people 235 years ago if it's okay to listen in on conversations in order to stop very bad people, they would probably heartily agree. Read up on people back then and your "Who would have guessed" comment would seem silly.

benz57us

Sorry, we can't have it both ways. The reason all of these terrorists keep getting stopped (despite the minimal reporting in the news), is because of our ability to track these people.

The Democrats that voted this down are a bunch of a**holes.

Watch the video "How Modern Liberals Think" to learn about liberals.

+ Watch video

It's very good. make sure you watch the Q&A at the end too. You'll need some quiet time.

benz57us

If you abandon your rights, and chose not to do anything, that might be okay for you. It's not okay for me though.

If you tell the person voting on this type of bill, that if they don't stop it from passing, you will be voting for someone else next election, you could be the first person to say, you could be the 10,000th person to say it. Otherwise, they have no idea how many people do not want this to pass, and will not represent their constituents accordingly.

No matter how much money is moving around, you still have to vote sometime, and if you have abandoned that, then you don't really have a reason to complain.

People fought to get these rights in place, and you want to give them up because you don't think there is a chance in hell of changing the system, or "winning"?

Regardless of what government agencies are doing, or have been doing, there should be something to protect your rights, even if it is only written on a piece of paper, and last time I checked, that's what the constitution was written on.

What stops any government agency from creating a new version of reality, based on your identity, are the laws that are being stripped away one by one.

Businesses should not be immune from lawsuits, they have to held accountable, what if they provide the wrong information? and based on that information you are shot dead because someone thought you were pulling a gun, instead of a MP3 player? what will your family be able to do?

skulldriveshaft

"Without this liability shield, we may not be able to secure the private sector's cooperation. ... and that of course would put the American people at risk," Bush said.

Who would have guessed that after 235 years, the fate of America, its ability to survive as a Nation, would depend on giving license to AT&T and Verizon to break the law without being sued by their customers in court?

And Johnny, if you want those passwords just show them your stinkin badge, and scare them with a bunch of bogus "terrorist" threats. They will immediately pull down their pants, and show you anything you want. After all they are secure in the knowledge that they have nothing to hide. All you have to do is promise to make em safe.

Gary_7vn

tehronin

johnnyabnormal

I called my ISP a while ago because I thought I was being throttled down intentionally. They told me no, I still don't believe them, but they told me there would be no reason, that my usage wasn't out of the ordinary. I thought, if other people watch as much nude women and dl as many HD movies as me is normal then were all safe.

Arza

Gary_7vn

It's kind of like saying that your pocket laser won't take out a missile, so there is no such thing as this...[www.boeing.com]

My cell phone is voice activated and it recognizes what name I am saying 99% of the time, even in noisy environments. You sound like a smart guy, you should read up on this issue. It's very serious and it's coming to a phone near you soon.

Gary_7vn

but i didn't mention data. data traffic is easily monitored with a Cisco CSG, though it takes alot of them because each one can't handle that much traffic in a live production setting. i mentioned voice.

drewheyman

but that's not what you said. i linked to your comment. go re-read it. the part i mentioned deserves the mockery i gave it.

drewheyman

Don't you think that IF you had something to hide your means of communication would be encrypted?.
You can encrypt your phone, cell phone, VOIP application or e-mail and the government would not be able to do squat.
The average 256 bit encryption would take hours or days to get decrypted even with the most powerful computers.

IF you had something to hide and you do not use encryption, you deserve to be caught. It's as stupid as someone willing to rob a bank and walking a mile to the bank with all guns exposed...

Just Google your full name and go hide under a rock.

:)

aec007

I like the Bourne Identity. It's a good movie.

I also enjoy reality, you might like to try it some time.
[www.wired.com]

Please please tell me to "make sure your tinfoil hat is on straight". That would make you perfect.

Gary_7vn

All voice traffic is analyzed by the NSA for suspecious patterns, but the McDonalds in my area use window and a live person instead of a computer for drive-thru and IVR systems require me to type in my phone number 11 billion times. Sure they do.

drewheyman

Gary_7vn

[www.pensionriskmatters.com]

It's nice to see people actually giving a shit about things for once. Maybe because King George's rule is coming to a close? Speaking of which, he had some choice words the other day, saying Obama would "Attack Pakistan and embrace Ahmenidijad". They must be crapping their pants over on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue after recent voting activity.

johnnyabnormal

That's why there's nothing we can do to convince these repubs of changing their stance on this issue, because they know they're finished for another generation if it comes to light.

And amnesty for companies that made huge profits off breaking the law is just disgusting. I guess conservatives being tough on crime only applies to poor people.

Kanti_V2

Peeping tom CCTV workers jailed

Two council CCTV camera operators have been jailed for spying on a naked woman in her own home...

[news.bbc.co.uk]

Gary_7vn

ANoel

I can't make the case here, but go read what Glenn Greenwald is saying about this issue over at www.salon.com. Feel free to post your "we just have to trust them" thoughts, get into the discussion and see if your arguments stand up. They won't.

Gary_7vn

Remember that if you are identified as an enemy of the state, you will have no rights, and you will be tortured. It's all "legal" now.

If you don't think this is possible, check google, in a few hours this entire thread will be available for searching.

All this is fine if you trust your government and believe that Bush, Cheney and Chertoff have your best interests at heart.

And while you are googling, check NSPD 51, secret FEMA prisons, Project Northwoods, the Lavon Affair, and Perry Fellwock, Savior of the World.

Gary_7vn

Could you please give me your email usernames and passwords? I promise I won't send any emails or delete anything. I just want to read them for key words to see if you are a terrrrrerrrrrist. Better yet, I won't ask. I'll just hack in without asking. Have a nice day!

johnnyabnormal

Gary_7vn

an1m3fr33k

Gary_7vn

johnnyabnormal

johnnyabnormal

[www.backwardsbush.com]

johnnyabnormal

jibbly

soulfinger

The USA does not have any privacy rights, only assumed privacy referred to indirectly.

At least the UK actually has laws, and they are upheld by the EU courts.

And before everyone tells me how wrong I am, please feel free to look it up for yourself. The USA is one of the few western nations that has no laws to protect privacy, yet they are one of the first to criticise the Brits when it comes to surveillance.

AlanJC

jibbly

SigmundTheSeaMonster

@Amaduli - it's what they do with the cameras that's scary. Auto face recognition systems, instant car tracking etc. Zero privacy.

I think we're all on the same side here - the MAN sucks, and we are all pawns in his monstrous scheme.

GeorgeD

smitty1123

LoganSix

It won't be illegal if the is passed by the government.

Mr. M

Mr. M

amaduli

LissaKay

LissaKay

wizardofpants

*Fair Usage/International restrictions.. blahblah

TKE-Egon

Campaign finance reform? Spending limits? Government has been bought and sold as a commidity forever. Rich guys/companies cut right through the spending limits like butter, so for all the lip service paid to the 'working man', the average citizen means less than nothing to a politician. And as long as money determines who wins elections, those with money will determine how government runs. Writing letters might make you feel better, but it's like drinking salt water, the temporary relief from thirst only moves you closer to the end. And all the time they take away power and rights from the people, make the people more and more dependent on their nice Uncle Sam. So you can waste effort on cosmetic, futile gestures, or you can be aware, and fight battles you have a chance in hell of winning.

junyo

jamesr242

do you always get the same guy listening in or do they rotate? do they get paid a little less to listen to porn lines, for you know, the fringe benefits?

drewheyman

GeorgeD

hagrun

What happens when they get retroactive immunity? Oh, look at that, all those multi-million dollar class action lawsuits disappear! Yay!...uh, wait, I forgot I'm not a giant telecom that stands to benefit immensely from the passage of this bill...dang.

AFAIK the debate on warrantless wiretapping on citizens is over. Our federal representatives sold us out and folded like a house of cards in the face of being labeled "weak on terrorism". At this point we're merely fighting for the scraps, like the right to sue the shit out of AT&T for violating their own privacy policies and having a fighting chance of winning.

jibbly

GeorgeD

ProSeven

dolo54

dolo54

dolo54

GeorgeD

edmicman

Who really has that much to hide? And if so, maybe someone SHOULD be listening to them.

adam12hicks

Leave the politicing to the political sites.

deeddawg

Really? You're going to dismantle ECHELON, and remove the hardware and software hooks that have been installed in telecom equipment for the last couple decades? You going to repeal FISA?

Grow up. There haven't been more than the illusion of privacy rights in this country since the 1950's, and we're the most dossiered group of people on the planet. And let's not forget that the President was given legislative cover on this issue by the not even close passage of the Protect America Act of 2007.

So write your letters hippies. I'll be in my bunker.

junyo

Curves