BTW the fifth element sucked ass.

izim1

uberfu

On my TV I would get minor "snow" on various channels and my Internet signal was constantly getting dropped_

I moved stuff around and swapped out 2 Co-Ax Cables and haven't had a single problem since_

It was getting to the point that I thought my brand new router might be bad_ And that my 6 year old modem might be dying_ But like I said - as soone as I switched the cables - everything stablized_

uberfu

you shoulda started from there.

Maybe you start from the middle of a post, but I generally start start at the beginning. I imagine your book reports in grade school were a bit of a muddle.

he was talking about instrument cables and you went on some rant about HDMI cables.@

Since he opened the disussion with "Most Higher end monster cable," and since most of the higher end Monster cable on the market today is DIGITAL cable, mine was a reasonable assumption. Hell, I even admitted my ignorance when it became clear that he wasn't talking about digital cables.

As for my five or so sentences being "some kind of rant"? Whatever.

TinyBug

you shoulda started from there.

he was talking about instrument cables and you went on some rant about HDMI cables. last time i checked neither my guitars nor my keyboards have HDMI ports. instrument cables DO give off different tones. i'm not even sure you can buy instrument cable at monoprice. i dont even think there is a low end company (other than walmart's "first act") that makes instrument cables.....

izim1

I used to be a rep of Monster Professional Audio cables (guitars, keyboards, power, etc.) Most Higher end monster cable will make a difference in tone, because of shielding and connections and design, etc. It's all very involved.

Bullshit. It's not involved at all. With HDMI and other digital cables, it's very very simple. Shielding, design, thickness, etc make no difference. It either works or it doesn't.

There is no extra clarity, no additional "depth of color." It doesn't make your whites whiter. There is no such thing as an HDMI cable that makes the digital audio or video data come out better than another.

The difference is marginal to the common ear. The more you pay the more it makes the difference. I use some monster cable for my guitar equipment

Ahhh... I see now, you're talking about analog equipment. I'll leave that discussion to more knowledgeable folks than myself. But for digital signals there is no difference, and paying more does not get you better performance. The 3 dollar monoprice cable offers the same quality output as the 80 dollar Monster cable.

TinyBug

Coder4Life

With that said, I have used 'bargain' priced cables for years and have never had any issues. I have also compared 'higher' end cables side by side to the ones I use, and have not noticed a difference. In the world of cables, you don't get what you pay for. It's a bunch of copper wire whether it's in a Monster cable or some unknown company.

swimman1

Mike_Hawk

The differences between a monster and Audioquest are large, and apparent on most any system with good resolution.

I think we disagree. I've seen no properly conducted double blind tests that show anyone--audiophile, golden ears, anyone--can hear the difference between a regular high quality cable and a super ultra premium IC or short run speaker cable. For example, Monster vs Nordost Valhalla interconnect and speaker cables.

Can you hear a difference? You think you can but you've never taken a proper statistically analyzed double blind test, or you would know better. Many people claim they can, yet none of them can actually do it in a proper double blind test, let alone repeat the feat. Shouldn't that be just a hint as to where reality lies? But, like dowsers, audiophiles convince themselves they can hear a difference because they need to. To believe otherwise would mean admitting they were fooled and wrong all those years. Cognitive dissonance will not allow them to come to grips with this fact--even when they fail double blind tests.

Now, really, really bad cables? Sure, you can hear a difference, but not between regular high quality cables and super premium cables--even if you are talking about stereo systems using audiophile terms ripe for abuse like "good resolution" rather than frequency response, transient response, THD, etc.--though I'm sure you know those terms, too.

As to your "blinding" by taking off the names of the cables--that isn't blind because people can still see the cables. They already know which ones look fanciest or the ones they remember from the store, so the cables weren't properly blinded in your description of your experiment and that was an open test not a single or double blind test.

People often become convinced they can hear a difference in cables, but that ability doesn't translate to a proper double blind test because your subjective belief is often colored by expectations. That's the reason Randi and JREF still have the $1,000,000.

Skeptic

Again, hate to sound like a broken record, but that is why I removed the names from the cables that I sent home with customers. I wanted to get away from those bias and let them make a decision on their own.

We are on the same page about several items
-Monster Cables performance is not in line with its price. It is sold on marketing.
-Some "high end" audio products that are sold are bunk. I agree. I hate those products, because they take away credibility from high quality manufactures that do sell better products.

Where we disagree:
-Yes, you can here the difference between a generic $4 cable and a $25 Audioquest or Kimber cable. The difference is worth the $21 dollars to me, and to customers that took the time to listen and compare. Customers at home backed that up, even when they didn't know what products they were listening to.

Also, what is your definition of a quality cable? You refer several times to not being able to tell the difference between two high quality cables. If you are talking about the difference between an Audioquest and Cardas, the differences are small. But the differences between a Radio Shack and Monster are small. The differences between a monster and Audioquest are large, and apparent on most any system with good resolution.

I will concede that, if you are listening to cables on a 15 year old pair of sears speakers you probably can't tell the difference. If you are listing on good equipment (like speakers from KEF, Paradigm, Energy, Totem, B&W, etc) the differences will be apparent. I can her it. My friends and family (who could care less) can hear it, and my customers could hear it, even with out knowing what brand or model they were listening to.

Also, these posts aren't driven by commerce. I haven't sold audio for many years. I sell Fire Trucks for a living.

Bernie530

We did both.

Sometimes we would A/B cables that the customer asked about. They knew the makers and had expectations.

Sometimes we would have a skeptical customer, and I would ask them for 15 minutes to see if they could hear a difference. When this happened I tried to avoid brand names and cost.

My favorite test was sending a customer home with cables. As I said earlier, I had about six speaker cables that I removed the markings from the jacket with thinner. I numbered them and told the customers to listen and decide their favorite, at home, in their own system.

About 75% of the time customers favorite pick was the most expensive (an no, it wasn't the largest gauge). However, most agreed that the differences between their to two favorites was fairly small. The law of diminishing returns is very true at the top end of performance in cables (or cars, or really any products).

When we disclosed what each model was and its cost, rarely would they purchase their favorite, because it was $20 a foot. Most, however, would purchase their second favorite, which was about $13 a foot.

Nobody that took the time to listen to the cables, independent of cost and brand name, opted to purchase the $1 a foot cable, or the $6 a foot cable (that was the largest gauge).

I know, not entirely scientific, but it was the best system I could find to let customers decide for themselves on a subject as hotly debated as cable performance.

Bernie530

When you take a 6ft, 4.95$ cable and compare it to a 6ft, 120$ cable, you have to justify that difference, which in the case of monster, is 100% no. Even if at that small distance there was a quality difference, its not worth the 24x price jump.

Also, with the gizmodo comparison they did awhile back at Monster HQ, where they put a 25ft hdmi cable and said it failed for 1080p, I would love to see how this is true, I have 3 of them running for an HD receiver, computer and player and they show no signal degradation, never seen a spot of "digital snow", and its always 100% perfect. So the 30$ cables I got performs supposedly the same as their 300$ 25ft cable, its a bloody joke. Also about the one hooked up to the computer, although the tv can't display the entire signal, it does do "1440p" resolution from the PC. Sure it might not carry the entire signal that a true future 1440p signal might, but again, no snow, no degradation and was certainly a signal...

Long story short, give me 90$ of cabling that performs perfect now, and has a pretty damn good chance to work perfect in the future, then feeling the ream it would by buying 900$ worth of cabling that makes its money off tricking people who know nothing into buying their garbage...

Scazza

The truth is that the markup as stated is completely immaterial to the question of whether they are worth it or not - that is decided by whether they are better than the cheaper cables.

Sorry, that is false. "Worth it" is not merely a function of benefit but a ratio of cost/benefit. The issue of "worth it" is definitionally tied to the cost of the product.

Perhaps what you mean to say is whether Monster cables are functionally superior to other high quality cables. Of course, the answer when it comes to analog interconnect cables, speaker cables and certified short run HDMI cables is a resounding, "No."

Skeptic

The truth is that the markup as stated is completely immaterial to the question of whether they are worth it or not - that is decided by whether they are better than the cheaper cables.

As this post points out, for digital cables (coaxle and optical) it is most likely not; but for analog cables, the size of the pipe and the quality of the shielding is EVERYTHING, thus they just might be...IF you have the equipment to take advantage of it.

wildness

AlphaUltima

It sounds like you have a 6th grader's understanding of economics.

TechnoDestructo

I will always use their power products however.

Pray, tell. The active products like UPS and active power conditioners may do a good job, but the only reason to buy appliance cords would be based on build quality. If those are your products and reasoning that would make sense, but if you are choosing appliance cords based on magical audio properties, that would not make sense.

Skeptic

And curiously, the often poor victims who give their money to Prosperity Televangelists endorse the lavish lifestyle their preachers lead, based, in part, on the idea that they, too, can become rich like their preacher. But, in reality, they are supporting policies and ideas that are actually against their interests. There does seem to be a thematic correlation with people who think Monster should charge huge money for cables that work the same (as tested by double blind ABX tests) as much cheaper, regular high quality cables.

Skeptic

Here's where i disagree...I've used mogami and had the the "s" shielding inside was not as good as the monster cable to prevent interference. just before a show i had to swap the mogami with another cable.

Remember with monster you're paying for warranty. Unlimited, no receipt needed unconditional return policy. The issue about better audio/video quality is definitely debatable. I've had mixed results. I will always use their power products however.

FYI, i use top of the line monster for power and speaker cable. everything else is generic brand because i get the sound i want from my guitar with those.

weege77

I think it's like the belief that allows televangelists to exist. The belief that wealth is a virtue and a sign that one is blessed by God.

If you are wealthy and successful, you are right, and your critics are wrong and are just jealous.

TechnoDestructo

BY RAINYDAYINTERNS AT 08:14 PM
We, for one, hope Monster raise their prices and make some more money...Go Monster!!!

That sums up your posts, and the posts of other BS cable apologists, rather nicely.

Skeptic

RainyDayInterns

Skeptic

BY JASMO AT 07:50 PM
You know, this isn't about the cables - it's about the markup. And frankly, if people are getting worked up over the markup, they are in for a rude awakening - because the concept of "markup" is the basis for our capitalist consumerist economic system.

No, ultimately, this is about the cables. If Monster cables really did make an audible difference over regular high quality cables, the mark up would reflect added value rather than added marketing.

Skeptic

Sian

izim1

Jasmo

BY BERNIE530 AT 06:44 PM
Oh wait, it says here that Jitter is a significant factor in the design of almost all communication links. If only the discussion here was about linking electronics. Oh wait, it is!

While I'm fond of sarcastic snark myself, I'm sorry to have to inform you that I anticipated your objections in my post. I said you couldn't hear the difference, not that there is no such thing as jitter in digital signal processing, and I challenged you to a double blind listening test.

And if it was such BS, why did I send the customers home with wire to listen to. If it was BS, don't you think they would find that out at home where they controlled all the variables?

Because either consciously or unconsciously you knew that the psychology or judgement and perception is easily fooled into making flawed subjective judgments based on preconceptions. Sending someone home with a Super Ultra Premium cable (especially someone sufficiently pre-convinced of its worth to buy it in the first place) is highly likely to delude themselves into believing they hear differences made by the cable, like that deluded fool Dave Clark who claimed Pear Cables have great "swing" and "pace."

Put these people into a proper doubleblind AB or ABX test between regular high quality cables and super ultra premium BS cables in a regular short run and they won't pick better than random chance.

I think you help prove that people will believe what they are pre-disposed to believe.

Pretty funny that you think such a statement supports your claim when in fact it does the opposite. Here you are admitting that people develop subjective impressions of cables that have nothing to do with the actual performance of the cables, yet you are apparently deaf to the loudly clanging Irony Meters going off in the background as you wrote it. It is so nice of people to disprove their own points. Makes my job so much easier.

Skeptic

"The mark-up percentage isn't the problem. The problem is the stores are no longer stocking lower priced cables, so consumers are being forced to buy these very expensive cables if they want to use their new equipment immediately."

I tried to buy a 20' component cable recently, and the only things I could find were $75+ cables at the big retail chains. Wal-Mart had one for $20.

I used to work for a retail store. I purchased inventory, so I know EXACTLY what our cables cost... up to 50% of the retail price - ALL of them. In fact, many of the $3.99 adapters cost us less than $1. Practically ALL cable sales are a ripoff, as cables are relatively easy to manufacture and the cost of raw materials isn't very high. Paying more than about .10-.25 per foot is probably a ripoff, but we're stuck, because "competition" isn't doing its job. Instead of giving us better prices, the cable manufacturers are conspiring to RAISE them every year.

As to musicians who use Monster cables... I AM one. I bought a Monster cable for my bass guitar. Now here's the thing: I move around a lot, and I tend to step on cables. When I stepped on my $10 Guitar Center specials, the cable pulls out of the bass. That's fine. That's what I WANT it to do. But when I stepped on my Monster cable? The wire pulled right out of the end of the connector! If we'd been live, I would have had to stop the show to replace my guitar cord!!

I did an autopsy after the fact. Do you know what I discovered? The actual cable's construction was INFERIOR to the $10 Guitar Center special. That's right.. the insulation, the shielding, even the core itself were not as good as the "cheaper" cables they compete with. And the connectors were crap. As I already mentioned, they don't even hold the wire well enough to prevent it from coming out of the connector, and the cable had no strain relief on either end.

As to the "people who pay too much get what they deserve" comment... actually, the opposite is true. They deserve to get what they pay for, and they didn't get it!

TomXP411

savager

I'm not going to defend CD mag devices and magic pens, because they don't work, and that isn't what this discussion is about.

But, about cables:
I'm sorry, I didn't know you had an electrical engineering degree. I should have finished mine, but I didn't. I was busy working as an engineer for a systems integrator and never finished. But I digress.

You must be right about Jitter. Let me look it up. Oh wait, it says here that Jitter is a significant factor in the design of almost all communication links. If only the discussion here was about linking electronics. Oh wait, it is!

[en.wikipedia.org]

And no, I can't measure some of the differences I can hear. The James Randi challenge has to do with measurement, not with listening.

I can only talk about my experience. I can hear a difference, and so could my customers. On more then one occasion I won bets with skeptics once they sat down and listened. 9 out of 10 that did sit down with an open mind heard the difference. I can guarantee you that 10 out of 10 would have chosen the cheaper option if the performance was the same. It wasn't.

I think you help prove that people will believe what they are pre-disposed to believe. You believe that all cables are the same, so you close your mind to tother possibiliteis. My customers would often believe that brand A was better than Brand B. That is why I took the names off the cables in my take home kit to get as far away from those bias as possible.

And if it was such BS, why did I send the customers home with wire to listen to. If it was BS, don't you think they would find that out at home where they controlled all the variables?

The truth is there are cables out there with better engineering and better materials that perform better. The question shouldn't be is there a difference, the question should be is the difference worth the $20, $40, or $100 up charge for you in your system.

My original point was the up charge isn't worth it for Monster, but try some of the other brands I mentioned and you may find the difference is worth it.

Bernie530

Skeptic

BY JCHOICE AT 06:26 PM
Just vote with your wallet. How hard is that? Monster doesn't have a monopoly on cables. If it did, then I can see all this Monster bashing being justified but come on, some of you guys just need a life.

You are being a hypocrite. Pointing out that Monster cables don't perform better than other, cheaper high quality cables may indeed be "bashing," but it is also part of the consumer education that allows us to be informed and "vote with our wallet." Being informed and informing other consumers is part of voting with your wallet.

All the "vote will your wallet" BS cable apologists have a strange dichotomy where they don't want the merits or lack thereof even discussed and seem to think that capitalism is supposed to be one way street where companies get to dictate the rules. Not so. Consumers can also call bunk on companies BS and spread the word. That's capitalism. That's democracy. That's freedom of speech.

Skeptic

skylab_pingpong

JChoice

BY BERNIE530 AT 06:15 PM
-Do Monster Cables offer performance worthy of their price for professional / musician use? I don't have much experience her, but the consensus seems to be yes.

I wouldn't call a few anonymous people in a forum a "consensus."

Skeptic

BY BERNIE530 AT 05:53 PM
-Now, before you go off on the "but it is digital, so they all perform the same" argument, we did a lot of testing there as well. Although the results were no as dramatic as differences in analog and speaker cables, there still was a noticeable difference in digital cables. Odds are this is because of jitter (timing) differences between cables.

Jitter? Jitter???? Are fricking crazy? That's the same BS that audiophile BSers give to explain why BS CD demagnetizers and magic CD altering pens are supposed to work. And now you are saying you can hear the difference between high quality digital IC cables? BS, BS, BS.

You know what? You could win a $1,000,000 from James Randi while the $1,000,000 challenge is still in effect if you an here the difference that you have affirmatively asserted you can hear between regular BS Monster cables and Extra Super Duper Premium Cables (aka extra super overhyped BS cables). Oh sure, you'd have to get some publicity and an academic to sign off to qualify, but that surely would be a small investment to make $1,000,000, right? But we all know that you can't hear the difference you claim to in a proper double blind test of short run high quality cables and BS Cables .

Skeptic

LeJerque

-Do Monster Cables offer performance worthy of their price for home use? (see my above posts for my opinion)

-Are high performance cables worth the extra money for the improvement in sound/video quality? (again, see my above posts)

-Do Monster Cables offer performance worthy of their price for professional / musician use? I don't have much experience her, but the consensus seems to be yes.

Bernie530

@dlab: You drop a lot of ride cymbals behind your gear in the course of an evening?

Tubes vs. solid state = difference in performance (tubes rulez).
Monster vs. monoprice/others = difference (in PRICE).
You think they "perform" better, spend the money. I don't and I don't and I am a musician and have been listening on decent equipment since I was in grade school.

It's too much like politics or snake oil (or televangelism).

doctor_cos

Also props to the guy who posted the story about the fat girl hanging off a Monster cable --- I can totally see that.

I am thinking back to a Guitar Player article where they compared a bunch of cables years ago... Monsters were the only ones to survive the shear test... (btw, shear test = dropping a heavy ride cymbal on the cable, edge first).

dlab

jovino

You wont find the Audioquest, Cardas, or Kimber cables I mentioned above in your big box stores. They are sold through performance audio shops.

The big box stores would rather sell you the Monster, becasue that is the name most consumers associate with performacne calbes. It is an easy sale, and profitable.

Also, a Best Buy salesperson will probably never take the time to explain the real differences in cables, or hook up three different cables to show the differences to a customer.

Bernie530

izim1

Monster cables: No, not worth it.

High performance cables: Yes, often worth going to the first or second tier of a performance from a high quality cable company (like Audioquest, Cardas, Kimber, MIT, etc). Let me explain.

-I used to work in a high performance audio shop. It was not uncommon for us to sell speakers that were $5k to $10k dollars.

-A high performance audio shop (staffed by audio geeks) is the epicenter of cable performance debate.

-Often, when slow, we would perform blind listening test comparing cables of all kinds.

-The results were consistent: Cable manufactures like Audioquest, Cardas, and Kimber have products that in audio systems sound better, and look better in video systems.

-Monster cable rarely performed any better than the throw away cables that come with a $49 cd player from Wal Mart.

-It is my opinion that the Monster spends their money on promotion and marketing, while the other above mentioned companies spend there money on better materials and research.

-Now, before you go off on the "but it is digital, so they all perform the same" argument, we did a lot of testing there as well. Although the results were no as dramatic as differences in analog and speaker cables, there still was a noticeable difference in digital cables. Odds are this is because of jitter (timing) differences between cables.

-To drive home the point home with skeptical customers, I made a take home kit of several cables that A customer could play with. I would charge a deposit on their card, and they would take home 6 different cables to play with. I took the names off the cables with thinner, so their brand loyalties wouldn't affect their listening. I carried three brands of cables, but 9 times out of 10 the customers chose Audioquest when they did this at home test.

-We also offered a two week trial on all the cables we sold, and encouraged our customers to try comparing them for themselves at home with more time. In five years of doing this I think I had 2 returns.

-In short, yes good cables are worth it. However, monster cables are just not good cables.

Bernie530

But let's face it: the cable is probably the least likely thing to damage your equipment.

More likely culprits would be faulty power sources, spilled beverages, being knocked over and/or dropped by overzealous fans and/or incompetent "roadies"....

ideaman2020

JayMo

CarbonatedWater

ironchef

MONSTER CABLES ARE NOT WORTH IT. Not for digital, not for analog. Not ever. I paid my way through college essentially making mic and speaker cables for theaters and bands. All you need for a mic or instrument cable is some nice Mogami shielded balanced cable with some nice flex and some Neutrik connectors. Follow connector instructions. Solder. Done. Run it over with a forklift, use it to hold scenery, whatever. Its good to go. For speaker cables use some nice 10 gauge Type SJ extension cord cable, use some Neutrik Speakon connectors and you're done.

For true professional gear, we care more about durability, quality workmanship and good cabling technique at the venue. My cables only fail when someone does something massively stupid to them, like slice it with a running recriprocating saw. If you want a good tutorial, check out Revison3's Systm, episode 4 (www.systm.org). Dave R. knows his shit.

trotskysghost

maztec

Jewelery: I can show this off to friends. Its visual and people can tell the difference between good and bad jewelery

Clothing: Without it I cannot go out in public. In the winter if I didn't have it I would die of exposure.

Furniture: I can sit on this. Its typically comfortable as I can tell the difference between a futon and a nice couch.

Monster Cable: I cannot tell the difference between Monster and non-Monster cable. Nobody I know can. I've seen a machine tell the difference. My HT will function with any cables so long as there are cables.

So I don't think those comparisons are valid... well maybe jewelery. Definitely not clothing and furniture.

warf0x0r

GizmoBub

izim1

Wow..let's get some government oversight in here on these cable pricing. Let's forget that consumers may have some commonsense. Let's protect them an make sure they don't pay too much for their speaker wires!!!

Makes sense to us...

Consumers should vote with their wallets...if not, somebody ShOULD take their money.

RainyDayInterns

izim1

You say what again?

MINI Driver

PotKettleBlack

skylab_pingpong

skylab_pingpong

This had happened before and one of the roadies wrapped the cable around a wood pole in front of me.

The result was that when she jumped up she grabbed the cable and hung there.

This cable supported the weight of a 120 pound drunk woman.

I was a believer before but now I don't use anything BUT!

Magiksreal

Hats off to Monster for making a product with higher perceived value, but my working brain prevents me from buying Monster Cable at retail price.

JAG42

skylab_pingpong

Let's say that you run a "Circuit Buy" store. your operating costs and break even dictate your markup.

Now, when prices on your bread and butter items (HDTV's for instance) drop due to consumers who are only looking at price, you look to the accessories to make up those losses.

So on cables, you probably have a 100% markup at the register. Sadly, the fact is that for the most part, that's the ONLY profitable part of the purchase.

If you're selling a TV at or in MANY cases even below cost, how do you pay the overhead?

You'd be absolutely shocked to see the markup on everyday things.

Then again, Oil companies run with a 1-4% profit margin and we still complain so maybe it's not the cost or the markup, maybe it's because as a society we feel that companies are evil...

Anyway, I'll stop before I rant even more. But I just want to point out that this information is nothing new to anyone who has ever opened up an economics book.

Magiksreal

avconsumer

izim1

Parapraxis

ripfire

Great point, if people want to complain about paying for a name, let's talk about Bose.

Where the hell is the consumer report on them? They don't publish ANY speaker stats and the few independent test show they essentially offer no mid range audio levels! So they don't play back part of the audio you are listening to and they cost more? Where do I sign up!?

[www.firstadopter.com]

@werk

No, HDMI is just the most convenient way to hook up an HD system. If you want you could use a DVI-D cable and optical audio to get the same video and audio quality (except for the newer audio formats like DTS-HD and Dolby True HD that are only HDMI compatible) The DVI-D signal is exactly the same as HDMI's video signal, except I don't believe that you get native 24hz 1080P signal, but I am probably wrong. If you are looking to upscale DVD's you will need an HDMI cable due to HDCP (High Def Content Protection, thanks Microsoft, they created HDCP). DVI-D is older and is primarily used for computers since monitors typically don't output high quality sound. If your looking for the best setup HDMI is the way to go, note that DVI-D and HDMI are the highest DIGITAL video quality signals you can get at the moment, component video is analog so its worth the switch from analog to digital. PS. component HD video is not HDCP protected, hence why the HD Slingbox uses component (they get around content protection royalties)

DevonTheDude

When is someone going to come out with bare cable, connectors, and crimpers to DIY HDMI cables?

gmaxwell447

Really? Do you think anyone in '62 - '65 was using Monster shielded cables out of a plastic clamshell..?

ideaman2020

Danceable, I tell you.

JacquesAss

So cables are fashion now?

GutterIsATool

You do it too much.

Ever hear of the phrase, "It's a matter of scale."?

Nakko

dvicklund

A Rolls Royce is objectively better in some ways than a Prius. More interior room, smoother ride, better materials, less road noise (though maybe more engine noise), style which many like better, and (most importantly) the peasants aren't driving it. All of these are factors which are noticeable to the end user.

Monster Cables do not perform any better in any significant way in the vast majority of cases. Even cheap cables have gold plated connectors these days, so corrosion resistance (which matters in some environments) isn't even a big factor anymore. And even in terms of appearance, cables are usually hidden behind the equipment they're connecting, so what does it matter? And considering their ubiquity, and the difficulty of getting any non-premium cables in brick-and-mortar stores these days, I don't think they can claim exclusivity.

Also it isn't market forces that allow Monster Cable to exist. It's manipulation of information going to customers.

If Monster Cable's customers knew shit about shit, Monster Cable wouldn't have any retail cables over 30 or 40 bucks. Monster deliberately misleads customers in order to distinguish their product from the functionally identical equivalents. They're trying to make themselves immune to the market. Others may have followed them into the "premium" cable price range, but they don't have any interest in competing on price, either.

The retailers are all perfectly happy to play along, because it's better to sell one 100 dollar cable to one sucker than 20 10 dollar cables to people who know there is no difference. It's like 4 dollar bottles of soda at the airport, particularly now that everyone (except Walmart...AFAIK, they of all people are the only good guys left in this fight) is playing this game.

Thus people falling for it hurt everyone who doesn't fall for it.

And what is your point bleating about the market, anyway? You think there's something wrong with us trying to fight back against the "premium" cable industries lies? That there's something wrong with trying to take away the non-market advantage Monster Cable has built for itself?

Is this some "virtue of wealth" thing?

TechnoDestructo

The real question: how durable and reliable do the cables that sit, unmoving, unbending behind your TV need to be? Sorry, Monster, but regular cables work just fine back there.

hatmike

For me, that makes it a great deal, hands down.

michaelshoup

STOP THE MADNESS

Ultraorange

youknowit

BY RAINYDAYINTERNS AT 03:51 PM
@SKEPTIC
Consumers vote with their money...complaint that the product doesn't work, don't complaint because people are willing to pay for a product. That's just silly

That's the line used by ripoff artist apologist: "As long as the consumer doesn't know they've been ripped off it doesn't matter."

F' that!

People are often willing to pay a high price for a product because they have been falsely convinced of the superiority of a product. Your line of thinking is the "just bend over" for companies and their claims line of thinking. That may work out great if you are a salesman *cough*cough* but not for consumers who get no real added value for their money.

POLLOCKROC makes a rational, and very specific and limited argument for Monster based on their warranty, which, if true, would be a reasonable factor to consider for road cables but not for cables in general. For the rest of us, Monster are over hyped cables that for standard short run lengths will make no difference over regular high quality cables. Of course, RAINYDAYINTERNS, is welcome to bend over and take it, but the rest of us can call bunk on that kind of capitulation.

Skeptic

LittleJon

rjintheatl

geekinky

It may only be a "44% profit margin" from a wholesale to retail (HA! ONLY 44%!!), but the manufacturing to wholesale has got to be close to 200%.

Anyone for a false advertising class action? These people are robbing ignorant consumers blind.

avconsumer

Music gear (keyboards / guitars etc) all need cabling and i can tell you that the longest normal run cables cost no more than $10-$15 usually. You will see them for up to $60-$70 and they will offer you a "discount" when you are getting your cables with gear ( dropping the price to about 50% of whats tagged on the cables usually), which means that normally they are still making a very healthy profit of cable sales.

Gear sales only provide a small percentage to the stores.. the cables are their bread and butter.

dOk

Consumers vote with their money...complaint that the product doesn't work, don't complaint because people are willing to pay for a product. That's just silly.

RainyDayInterns

walterny

Now if we could just get them to cover getting too drunk at gigs and leaving cables at the venue, we'd be all set.

PollockRoc

BY IZIM1 AT 03:41 PM
I wouldn't connect my 62 r1 strat to my 65 twin reverb with any fucking cable that comes outta "monoprice" (comes outta ANYWHERE in a plastic bag, for that matter). Sorry.

Must be nice having all of your cables delivered by armed couriers from Pear.

Skeptic

Well, the Monster reply to the charge of inflated prices was correct in one thing. The profit margin on these cables is not as absurd as you might think.

Perhaps, but I'll bet Monster is fudging on the "wholesale price." Different companies receive different pricing depending on volume and chances are that Monster dug up the highest wholesale price it could find to use as an example.

Skeptic

yogibimbi

Y RAINYDAYINTERNS AT 03:38 PM
The amount of markup is irrelevant...they should charge as much as they could. Why shouldn't a maker charge a 1000% markup if the market will pay it?

And why shouldn't consumers complain and demand as little mark up as possible? Your comment is irrelevant to a forum that is for consumers rather than corporate salesmen, accountants and CEO's.

Skeptic

But calling the 40-50% profit margin a ripoff is not exactly fair. If that is the case, every time you buy something, you are getting ripped off.

CaptainCynic

izim1

yogibimbi

Work & look just fine to me

Y2KGTP

As to analog shielding, speaker cables are not shielded, so that argument does not apply in that case.

Monster makes high quality cables, but Monster knows that their cables are only subjectively better if you think they are better, and thus Monster does not, and refuses to, do any double blind testing of any of their analog cables. Sure, they can point to tests that show detectable electrical differences from Monster cables and others, but the tests are so sensitive they can show differences between batches of the exact same cables--differences that make no audible difference to listeners of any system, no matter how high end.

Skeptic

I've seen the garage at Monster...about 30 cars you'll only ever see at car shows or TV. Some even with custom designed interiors just for the audio.

weege77

Of course, technical claims should be challenged if they sound bogus!

However, the marketplace will decide if they are willing to pay the mark up. Some may be willing to pay more just because the cables are "so pretty" :-)

RainyDayInterns

innout3x3

DevonTheDude

Geisrud

Eric1285

Don't come back shouting at us consumers... again. Your irritation should be placed firmly at your resellers feet.

axiomatic

pevans34

ANoel

Mobius

mmplisskin

BoinK

sandmanfvr

As far as digital, it either makes it from one point to the other intact or it doesn't. If it doesn't, get a better cable.

Monster started it's business in the analog world and back then I do believe they offered a product that offered something more important than quality, they provided engineered consistency.

Discofunk

innout3x3

92BuickLeSabre

rexplex

It's never an impressive answer.

clevershark

tobedetermined

Canadian Impostor