Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks - Gizmodo Comments

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

rimplestultskin — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:50:55 EST

@bwilliams18: helium. explosion risk solved.

although the need to re-launch every 24 hours, at $100 a pop to recover each balloon and $50 to re-launch it, is going to rape the wallet quickly.

rimplestultskin

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Ziggy_Stardust — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:00:21 EST

so what keeps them over the US?
wouldnt they drift out over the ocean and to other countries???

Ziggy_Stardust

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

drdroo — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:46:22 EST

The Sanswire zeppelins can stay in the stratosphere for 18 months at a time, and when you want to replace it, you just bump it out of the way with a new one, drop the other one to Earth, replenish and reuse it. This works well for Google's plan.

However, the concerns about spectrum (because at 100K feet you're going to cover a LOT of customers) is a very valid one. On the plus side, if you're that far overhead, there's always somewhere in the gigarange since you will have Line of Sight.

drdroo

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

chrstphr — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:47:09 EST

A 24-hour life is considered a shortcoming? Isn't it more like a major problem?

chrstphr

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Lupison — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:11:39 EST

Massive pollution issue, but the Bush EPA really doesnt care. However Bush hates google for not "playing ball" with the Patriot Act so who knows.

Lupison

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gattsuru — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:22:39 EST

Why not use UAV's instead?

Because UAVs are expensive as hell -- anything good enough to get that high would cost as much as a brand-new piloted air-craft -- and right now the only way the FAA will let a UAV take off on American soil is if they owe you a pretty big political favor.

UAVs are fun little sci-fi toys, but unless you expect to be shot at, they're really not the best bet.

gattsuru

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Gann — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:57:41 EST

Why not use UAV's instead?

Gann

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

hmooby — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:56:28 EST

MS will have it drone out there shooting them down...or maybe comcast would do that....

hmooby

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Y2KGTP — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:42:50 EST

where can I sign up to launch these? 50$ a launch makes a good side job to me....

Y2KGTP

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Lonaan — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:47:57 EST

@Bzzzy: Kudos to you for the Monty Python reference!!

Lonaan

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

strider_mt2k — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:43:55 EST

I look forward to stories of daring balloon retrievals.

strider_mt2k

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Aqua32 — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:02:24 EST

Well, you have to give them credit for thinking outside the box. But wouldn't it be easier to just put them on top of residential houses and give the owner of the house free access?

Aqua32

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

skulldriveshaft — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:56:23 EST

Most commenters on this article kinda have it all wrong, I doubt they're going to be using the existing balloons to do their network.

We have to take a look at the companies Google has bought to see complimentary technologies.

This would most likely be first used for Google Maps for low altitude images. Could also be used for data collection for weather monitoring services at a much lower cost. Doppler with video anyone?

skulldriveshaft

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

sublimnl — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:38:57 EST

@bwilliams18: hi there. I'd just like to introduce you to the following members of the ASCII character set: . , ? ! ;

HAND

sublimnl

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

thechansen — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:03:30 EST

let's say it takes 750 cell towers to provide service to a state (let's not nitpick the size or population of the state). That's 37,500 towers to cover the mainland, Hawaii and Alaska. I've read on the interwebs that 600 towers would provide NC with 100% coverage but I'm not sure of that figure so don't quote me on this. Now if you take high volume areas like NYC or LA and factor in rural Texas and states like Rhode Island, I would say maybe 30,000-40,000 total towers would be more than enough. Using the 37,500 figure, at $2.5 million a piece (I've seen various figures ranging from $70,000 to $2 million) to build a tower, that would cost: $93,750,000,000. That's a huge up front cost. Consider this: the United States government just spent something in the ballpark of $170 billion to give the citizens a Tricky Dick Fun Bill, maybe if they were to spread this out over the course of 10 years, they could fund the construction of all these towers, allowing Telcoms to cover maintenance and operating costs. And a lot of areas already have decent coverage so total costs may be much, much less.

thechansen

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

zakeen — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:41:54 EST

why cant they just attached these things to planes in the skies. Im sure the airlines would take the money. and for sure there are more planes in the skies at a time compared to the amount of ballons.

zakeen

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

foofighter28 — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:31:12 EST

it's no as easy as launching balloons a coverage area of what they showed is a lot of POPs one balloon would cover...a little box like that can handle that kind of traffic? I find that highly optimistic when terrestrial based cellsites that cover less than 1 mile in an urban area see major capacity issues this balloon thing just doesnt make sense. Especially if it's carrying more than just voice traffic.

foofighter28

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

savager — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:25:07 EST

i had balloons at a birthday party once.. once...

savager

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Bzzzy — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:06:03 EST

Couldn't an African or European Swallow grasp it and fly it around? I mean a coconut is heavier than 6 lbs.

Bzzzy

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

drewheyman — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:34:27 EST

man, if they actually lauch this, i'm so going to apply for the 'google balloon shooting down' division at ATT or Verizon. that plus booze would be my dream job.

If Nortel or Nokia NSN could make a cell tower that had only $1500 in parts, then they'd be raking in the dough, not bordering on bankruptcy.

drewheyman

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Paul — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:33:17 EST

@microserf149: The Marine in me is thinking of all the times I've seen equipement, including parachutes, fail, and mulitplying that times hundreds per day, and still would like to know a little bit more.

If you did 400 jumps a day every day how often would you expect a problem requiring a reserve chute?

Paul

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

microserf149 — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:24:40 EST

I've done a goodly number of skydives, and if a parachute can get people out of the sky reliably, then I wouldn't be too concerned about a 6 lb shoe box. (It is common practice for skydivers to jump with a device that deploys a reserve chute at a specific altitude if it detects that no chute has been deployed. These things are pretty darn reliable as they are designed to save lives.)

For a 6 lb device the chute would be really small, and a backup chute probably wouldn't even be a problem.

(But of course, that doesn't fix the littering. Or the winds. We call students wind drift indicators.)

microserf149

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

DirkusMaximus — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:01:05 EST

@takemetoyourtoaster: Seeing as these things will be floating near the edge of the atmosphere at somewhere near 80-100 thousand feet you'll need a bit more than a BB gun.

This, of course, makes for a great excuse to buy one of those "Wicked Lasers" units.

[www.wickedlasers.com]

DirkusMaximus

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Paul — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:55:12 EST

Am I the only one put off by the idea of hundreds of "shoebox-sized electronics packages" falling down on us from the stratosphere on a daily basis? Everyone's talking about recovering the balloon, but that's been destroyed...I would like to know a lot more about how effective these parachutes are before I embrace a technology that aims 6-pound payloads at my head from 20 miles up.

I also don't think google is enough of a socially responsible company for me to just look the other way while they drop shit on land that doesn't belong to them. If I did that, it'd be littering. If my company did that, it'd be "dumping." For google, it's just a new business model?

Paul

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

JWhitney — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:49:17 EST

@takemetoyourtoaster: Wow, yeah... that would be fun. You could even post a video of it to... Wait, what's that? You can't post a video of it because you now have no internet connection? Well, crap.

JWhitney

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Rob C — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:39:09 EST

jeeze man, this thread got real violent, real fast...

Rob C

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Vertigo77 — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:27:31 EST

Something that I wrote on August 10th on my blog.
Final ingredients to the story

* Stratellites is a project, is a buzz word, it's a lot of hype around it in the specialized blogs, but if you go around the hype maybe there is something here.
* Wimax is a lot more known. I really hope it won't have the same "success" like the ATM which was supposed to replace all protocols before year 2000 :)
* VOIP which is one step towards service convergence.
* Lossy codecs for audio and video as in ogg, mp3, aac+, xvid, divx, H264 you pick one or more.

Let's start dreaming

What do I want from a service like the one envisioned 10 years ago?

* I wish to be able to call anyone and be called for a very reasonable price per minute.
* I wish to be able to use that device as a "modem" for my laptop (maybe the 100$ laptop but this is another dream).
* I wish to have enough download and upload speed for a videoconference (no HDTV quality needed, VGA will do just fine)
* I wish to be able to be located if needed by using the GPS, GALILEO constellations.

And that's pretty much it.

Now, assuming that the strattelites are working as promised, the VOIP and WIMAX devices are working perfectly without any servicing needed what would be the strategy to implement a service like this.

Ideally you could get all the big gsm telcos at one table: the european ones (Vodafone, Orange), the japanese NTT, the US TMobile and Verizon and so on and they should put their financing power behind a project like this.
I wonder how many calls are placed simultaneously in a 6 millions subscribers network. 100000? 200000? 1000000? Do not know. But according with the guys with the stratellites, one airship will cover a lot of space (average european country). Is it possible to have a "PABX" inside an airship like this which should deal with the average number of calls using VOIP and Wimax? Anyway I do not have the necessary data or experience to make the right assumptions here, but I am allowed to dream.
I am sure that if the project is possible the operating costs for an airship like this would be cheaper than the cost of maintaning the ground network for any GSM or CDMA operator. And the end I would have only a VOIP phone which I can use with Skype or Vonage at home and then if I am on top of the mountain I can still use it.

Vertigo77

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Gryphon09 — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:22:59 EST

While this seems like a real cool and neat idea, it also seems a little unconventional and flawed at the time. Is it really that much cheaper than towers to keep replacing these balloons every day?
This all just seems a little odd to me, though still pretty cool.

Gryphon09

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Hiphopopotamus — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:18:57 EST

Assuming the recievers are recovered by the $100 finders fee (which will spawn a whole new industry in and of itself - balloon hunters)... thats $150 per day per balloon. If they can really achieve US coverage with just shy of 400 balloons, thats a wireless network with a $60,000 a day maintenance fee, which I am guessing is waaaaaaay below the upkeep on cell tower networks.

It will suck when a windy day knocks out the internet for the entire western US though.

Hiphopopotamus

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

tobedetermined — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:01:06 EST

Great! Much easier for people to sabotage the balloon network than those undersea telecom cables

tobedetermined

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Stacky Botrus — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:51:51 EST

For some reason, this seems flawed.

Stacky Botrus

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

scarbrtj — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:49:58 EST

@Jesus Diaz: I very much enjoy it when the Gizmodo elite mingle amongst us. (Yes, I worship at the Altar of Celebrity.)

scarbrtj

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

drdroo — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:48:32 EST

[www.sanswire.net]

Google could just use something like that.

drdroo

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Luuey — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:39:25 EST

could be cool, but the cost will add up real quick. Dont forget the cost to pay employees to watch over these balloons and im sure there are some aviation concerns also.

Luuey

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Jesus Diaz — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:35:57 EST

Read the article. They have parachutes.

Jesus Diaz

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

CampSteve — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:33:42 EST

So these 6 lb. wireless transmitters are going to come crashing down to earth? If one cannot control where they will be blown (leaving it up to the weather), then how does one know they won't be plummeting into congested areas? Will Google pay to fix a hole in a roof?

And is it still considered littering if they're "throwing away" latex balloon material from way up high? This doesn't sound very environmentally economic.

CampSteve

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

rudeadly — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:28:10 EST

Balloons work great! Remember the last time when we took a man to the moon with one?!

rudeadly

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

scarbrtj — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:11:25 EST

I've been reading about these damn balloons to bring us ubiquitous WiFi for years. I'll believe it when I see it. Always the low-cost aspect is mentioned, too. So... I pray it's low-cost for the consumer if it ever comes to fruition.

scarbrtj

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gabrielm — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:05:50 EST

Dear Google,
I have a cost effective alternative:

$200 finder's fee for Space Data Corp's ballons + $50 to relaunch!

gabrielm

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

Jesus Diaz — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:54:18 EST

FWIW, we only ban people when they are being offensive and total douchebags, but never when they show a) ignorance, b) idiocy, c) lack of punctuation or d) all of the above.

This may change without notice, though.

Jesus Diaz

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

prime80 — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:52:22 EST

Knowing Google they'll probably stick a clown hat and a face on the balloons and charge Jack in the Box $400 for 'em.

prime80

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

YourTechSupport — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:51:47 EST

Wouldn't it be more cost effective to make more t-com style blimps with solar panels and just park those in the air?

YourTechSupport

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

DirkusMaximus — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:42:19 EST

@gelatinous: I suppose we should let him live. I am sincerely hoping for a poorly written rebuttal to those who have called him out though, just so he can make his failure complete.

DirkusMaximus

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gelatinous — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:37:13 EST

@tehronin:
@DirkusMaximus: I am prepared to pretend that this little incident never happened as long as he refrains from posting in the e e cummings style.

gelatinous

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

DirkusMaximus — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:31:22 EST

@gelatinous: True, banning is a bit much. Perhaps just a quick Louisville Slugger to the kneecaps to keep him in line.

DirkusMaximus

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

tehronin — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:30:15 EST

@gelatinous: Yes, but banning is fun?

tehronin

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

DirkusMaximus — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:29:42 EST

Durr... forgot linkage to pics of the TCOM baloons. They can keep them airborne for a month at a time, though at much lower altitudes than these little weather-baloon dealies.

[images.google.com]

Linkage to TCOM's site:

[www.tcomlp.com]

DirkusMaximus

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gelatinous — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:28:43 EST

That seems a bit harsh to me.

gelatinous

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

tehronin — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:27:19 EST

Can we ban him?

tehronin

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gattsuru — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:27:05 EST

BWilliams, more people died in a crash involving the helium-filled USS Akron than in the hydrogen-filled Hindenburg. In the Hindenburg's case, few fatalities involved the fire or explosion, just the fall to the ground.

Hydrogen goes boom, but at normal pressures, it's not going to make a very big boom; it's just too light and ends up going everywhere too fast for a real fun explosion.

gattsuru

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

DirkusMaximus — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:25:45 EST

Now that I've taken 2 tylenol to take the bite off of bwilliams18's post, I just wanted to say that I'm bummed that they're using these little ballons instead of something cool like the Aerostats from TCOM. I'm especially bummed about that because I live just a few miles from TCOM's facilities, and would LOVE to work for them, especially on a contract for Google.

/NERD

DirkusMaximus

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

DirkusMaximus — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:21:39 EST

@bwilliams18: I think what you meant to say was:

ok so this sounds awesome lets just post some rambling statment without reading the farking article anyone remember the punctuation because i forgot all of mine due to the fact that i fail at life

DirkusMaximus

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gelatinous — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:21:00 EST

@bwilliams18: One of the articles specifically states that these balloons are not even comparable to the hidenburg.

Hydrogen is, of course, flammable, but Mr. Knoblach says there's no safety issue because each balloon contains so little gas. "It's not like the Hindenburg," he says
[online.wsj.com]

gelatinous

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gelatinous — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:18:06 EST

@takemetoyourtoaster: The more weight you add, the more gas you need to lift the balloon. One would need to make a very large balloon in order to compensate for the added weight.

gelatinous

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

tehronin — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:14:47 EST

I'm guessing the subscription revenue is greater than the cost per balloon, making it a profitable ratio if only 6 - 9 balloons can effectively cover the area the size of Texas. 100,000 subscribers in one state vs. 6 - 9 low cost balloons. I'm all in.

tehronin

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

bwilliams18 — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:14:01 EST

ok so this sounds awesome lets just launch some hydrogen baloons into the air anyone remember something called the hindenberg that had hydrogen hydrogen is also very very explosive so what happens if one of these explodes thats really good

bwilliams18

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

strider_mt2k — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:13:41 EST

No accusations of Grandfaloonery here.

strider_mt2k

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gelatinous — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:13:32 EST

@MadColombian: Teathering them all together would not acheive the desired end. It seems to me that the point is to spread them out across the country so that more people can have internet access. Also if you were to teather the balloons, wouldn't the VERY long string pose a serious danger to aircraft? Also, the string would most likely put unnessary stress on the balloon, decreasing the already short life span.

gelatinous

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

takemetoyourtoaster — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:13:27 EST

double coat them with the elastic, make it thicker, seal it with something on the outside, what happens if there is a large storm in the area, it would be kinda bad to have a big ass network ontop of the ocean

takemetoyourtoaster

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

gelatinous — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:08:51 EST

The following comes from the WSJ article.

"The inexpensive balloons are good for only 24 hours or so before ultimately bursting in the thin air of the upper atmosphere."

Replacing these things every day seems impractical, so does Google plan to create balloons with a higher life span?

gelatinous

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

snakepliskin — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:06:23 EST

@MadColombian: Yeah i was thinkin itd be easier to just tether them but either way its a cool idea.

snakepliskin

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

WolfDemon — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:04:51 EST

But then you'd constantly be finding the balloons after they fall out of the sky and relaunching them

WolfDemon

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

MadColombian — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:04:50 EST

cant they just strap the balloons down and keep them in one place??? and every so often check/replenish them?

MadColombian

Google May Buy a Balloon Company to Build Huge Wireless Networks

takemetoyourtoaster — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:02:55 EST

you know what would be fun, take a bb gun and take those suckers down

takemetoyourtoaster