Zlevee

Fierock

@Fierock: Awesome.

gibson042

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

Why mess with that by permanently changing our clocks? Are we trying to thumb our nose at God? Why not just change when we decide to open our businesses, schools, churches etc. In fact there is nothing stopping anyone from doing this anyway. My theory is society naturally tends to optimize the use of daylight and if we end up going on permanent DST, then eventually we will probably just start opening up businesses and schools an hour later, thus going to sleep an hour later and waking up an hour later and ultimately nullify the whole idea while messing up the definition of high noon.

Fierock

Zlevee

Zlevee

ZahirNavroz

@gibson042: 28 hour day? I kinda like that idea, then in the winter we have 20 hour days to compensate? (wouldn't that be fun? and confusing?)

Fierock

TheHun

stephenbb

gibson042

I think the whole process is outdated anyway with a global economy, near instantaneous transfer of information, and people making their own schedules based on their preferences. If I had the time I'd do a search for that European (I think?) company that let's all of its employees set their own schedules. Some people come in at noon, some at midnight, just because it's what they want and they've gotten used to doing it. There was also something in there about people actually working on a 25 hour day or something? So they would come in at 8am today, 9am tomorrow, 10am the day after or something like that?

ninjamurf

uberfu

uberfu

uberfu

mrsteve007

Fierock

gibson042

For the one national time person. It seems to work in china.

For the AC people, the components in the AC have to get cooler than the house to cool it down. When the AC is off it takes more energy to get it to operational temp then too keep it at operational temp. Many cycles of off/on will take more power than few cycles of off/on. Also Capacitors and such have to be charged. So it's much more efficient to turn off during the day. Also works with heaters, or boilers. Water can be considered the capacitor, until hot enough the system does not work, takes more energy to heat up initially then to keep warm.

rurena

izzaboo

To note, the whole state uses DST, but some counties on the Central/Eastern Time Zone border have opted to change from the Eastern Time Zone. To the central zone. People in Floyd County on the North side of Kentucky "illegally" observed DST prior to the official observation because they were part of the Louisville metro area.

Schalliol

banmojo

FLskydiver

For two years, I charted my electricity bills - one year of keeping it at the reccomended energy conscious temperature that left me uncomfortable all the time, and one year of setting it where I was comfortable. The difference in cost for those two years was $37. I'd rather pay the $37 and be happy, then save it and be too cold or too hot all the time.

I believe that much of what we are fed is pure fabrication bought by some company or other and urban legendized, or else it is something that was useful once upon a time, but really doesn't do much for anyone anymore.

Me? I wish we could fall back every time. lol

Coaster

smitty1123

Businesses could have "summer hours" and "winter hours," so that they are open whenever the sun is up and for an hour or two after it goes down, but there's really no point in all this madness just so everyone gets up at 7 and goes to bed at 11, all year round.

Luke

Con Seannery

if i leave it off in the summer, then rooms typically get up to 85-90+ degrees around windows (if its 100F+ outside). it then takes a 15 degree swing to cool that room back to 75-77F. that's several hours of constant AC and really uncomfortable while you are waiting. Not only that, it's a huge strain on the power grid and charged at a higher cost (assuming i get home from work around 5:00).

however, if i leave it on, and set it higher while i'm gone (to start at 80) then it only has to cool 2 or 3 degrees and those can be charged at peak and non-peak costs. And i also don't suffer from several hours of discomfort while it cools.

drewheyman

turbofreak

Daylight savings time does nothing except shift power consumption to the morning, cause vehicle accidents, disrupt people's sleep cycles, and make politicians look like they are actually doing something to save energy.

The only people, other than energy suppliers like ConEd, who benefit from Daylight Savings Time are politicians who "solve" a problem by doing something that basically screws everyone over.

Triborough

How could anybody get anything done if we reduced the work day by 3 hours?

NCMO

WFUshowtime

Of course, it might be best to spell some of the major words correctly... If you are going to call someone a moran, make sure you aren't a bigger moran.

stuartny

faabshaam

NightElfMohawk

Also a few tidbits for the morans (sic) out there who think they are somehow managing to consume less energy by running A/C or heat all day...

A common misconception associated with thermostats is that a furnace works harder than normal to warm the space back to a comfortable temperature after the thermostat has been set back, resulting in little or no savings. This misconception has been dispelled by years of research and numerous studies. The fuel required to reheat a building to a comfortable temperature is roughly equal to the fuel saved as the building drops to the lower temperature. You save fuel between the time that the temperature stabilizes at the lower level and the next time heat is needed. So, the longer your house remains at the lower temperature, the more energy you save.

Another misconception is that the higher you raise a thermostat, the more heat the furnace will put out, or that the house will warm up faster if the thermostat is raised higher. Furnaces put out the same amount of heat no matter how high the thermostat is set--the variable is how long it must stay on to reach the set temperature.

In the winter, significant savings can be obtained by manually or automatically reducing your thermostat's temperature setting for as little as four hours per day. These savings can be attributed to a building's heat loss in the winter, which depends greatly on the difference between the inside and outside temperatures. For example, if you set the temperature back on your thermostat for an entire night, your energy savings will be substantial. By turning your thermostat back 10? to 15? for 8 hours, you can save about 5% to 15% a year on your heating bill--a savings of as much as 1% for each degree if the setback period is eight hours long. The percentage of savings from setback is greater for buildings in milder climates than for those in more severe climates. In the summer, you can achieve similar savings by keeping the indoor temperature a bit higher when you're away than you do when you're at home.

djdare

oldstumpy

oldstumpy

Businesses tend to keep thermostats unchanged throughout the day/year. So while you're at work an extra hour in the winter, it uses their energy - not yours. (theirs is not used in the study because they would have left it on regardless of DST) There are other mathematical/social irregularities which are not accounted for to create such an assessment.

It would be interesting to see a study of how DST improves/worsens on all levels - not just energy-saving. If we have an extra hour of daylight to spend with our family instead of at work, doesn't that assist in improving morale and a healthier balance and therefore productivity and improved profits?

I for one hate coming home from work in the dark - can't do anything required around the house because your day "feels" spent. So you only get to see your family in the daylight for a total of an hour a day and weekends? That really sucks! I say we reduce the workday to 7 hours/day and eliminate DST altogether!

zarchitect

I hate DST. It means that kids will be out later on Halloween pounding on my door.

I love DST. It means I can enjoy more sun time after getting out of work.

I hate DST. It means I have to get to bed while it's still light out (I get to bed between 8:30 and 9, getting up at 4:20 AM).

gadjitfreek

Kim98

Suppose the energy it takes to retain the steady temperature is 1 units per hour. And suppose that if you let the temp go to extrems and only then turn on the A/C, it will take 5 units (and for simplicity say it takes an hour) to cool it down again.

Now with very simple math you can calculate the overall consumption. Let's suppose two caes, A and B where A always keeps the A/C on and steady and consumes 1 unit per hour. And B always keeps the A/C off and then turns it off at the end of the test.

With a test duration of 3 hours, case A will have consumed 3 units of energy and case B will have consumed 5. But if the test duration is 8 hours then case A will have consumed 8 hours of energy and case B will have consumed 5. Thus, all other things being equal the duration of the period of A/C off will have an effect on which strategy is better.

This is very easy to understand if you take it to extremes. Imagine 6 month of running the A/C vs. being away from the home for 6 month and then coming home and turning the A/C on. Surely you aren't suggesting that the 1 hour of A/C running after 6 months will consume as much energy as a whole 6 months worth?

Kim98

Even if there are no savings in energy there are still big benefits of DST in terms of its effect on quality of life in high latitude areas. If you live in Florida then you obviously don't understand the impact of it, but trust me - if you're in Alaska or Canada on northern Europe then it's a pretty big deal.

Also keep in mind that in a lot of high-latitude places, air conditioning is not an issue because even at the hottest the temperature will only be around +20C in the summer. Most of the time-bound energy consumption is from lighting - not temperature control.

DST might be stupid in lower latitude places such as California, but it's not stupid in high latitude places.

Kim98

If you let your houses temperature go to an extreme, then tell it to bring it to a comfortable temp, you'll most likely be using much more energy. Not only does it have to work extremely hard to regulate the air in the house, but everything else that has absorbed all the hot/cold air.

Darkest Daze

shadaik

bbfreak

Either case, my point is that turning down / off your A/C when you are out will save you money, period. And if you don't believe, I have checked my energy bill too.

We installed a timer based thermostat 3 years ago, and our heating and cooling bills have both been consistently lower in the past 3 years - despite last year was one of the coldest winter for us. And before you fire back, no we have not upgraded any windows, re-seal any gaps, or blown in more insulation at the roof. The house is the same, just a new thermostat.

Also keep in mind the service-life extension of your AC / furnace. Your unit may has to run for 30 min. straight when you get home, but compare to kicking on for 5 min. 3 times an hour all-day, in total it will run for less time. In addition, most (if not all) appliances (and electronics gadgets for that matter) wear out faster if you keep turning them on-and-of-and-on-and-off-and-so-forth.

Peace.

Makkuro

I have to side with you here. Don't forget about the items in your home heating up as well, so you have residual heat to get rid of in addition to cooling the air. I believe this is the culprit for making it take so long to cool down your home or your car after having the AC off all day. Likewise, leaving the AC on all day keeps everything at a uniform temperature. I would recommend raising the temperature during the day and turning it off for extended absences. Ceiling fans also help a lot with circulation and keeping the temperature more uniform.

Trembler

@gforce: that may be partially true, but i'm sure there's some law of economics, if not thermodynamics, that says removing 5 at a time is more efficient that removing 20 all at once.

plus with some degree of insulation, hopefully your house won't absorb enough heat where it reaches some equilbrium and can't absorb any more. even if it doesn't, that equilibrium occurs way above 80F in many parts of the country, and that means your house will be uncomfortable for quite a while until it cools!

drewheyman

bbfreak

Posthaus

"It's a myth that leaving the AC on while you're away at work uses less energy than turning it on when you get home. Here's why:

Heat goes to where it's not. With the AC off, your house will absorb heat from outside, but at some point it will be so hot it can't absorb any more heat. When you come home and turn the AC on, the AC has to remove the accumulated heat only once.

But if the AC is on when you're gone, then your house is constantly absorbing heat because your AC is constantly cooling down the house. The AC has basically turned your house into a heat magnet. So your AC is removing absorbed heat over and over and over again.

Let's say you leave the AC off, and your house absorbs 20k BTU's of heat and then stops, because that's all it can absorb.

Now let's say that you have the AC running instead. The house absorbs 5k BTU's of heat, so the AC kicks in and removes it. Then it absorbs another 5k BTU's, and your AC kicks in and removes that. Repeat that process several times during the day.

This is not a gray area, and there's no question about it: running the AC when you're not home wastes energy, period."

gforce

man in gauze is king ramses II, silly.

suburbancowboy

It was created for the farmers and they stopped using it. Why doesn't the government take a hint?

CapitalC

Literally, probably a dime.

92BuickLeSabre

=P

willyolio

DST is a joke..

akmarksman

92BuickLeSabre

how is DST "saving" daylight in any way?

willyolio

"During his time as an American envoy to France, Benjamin Franklin, author of the proverb, "Early to bed, and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise", anonymously published a letter suggesting that Parisians economize on candles by rising earlier to use morning sunlight.[14] This 1784 satire proposed taxing shutters, rationing candles, and waking the public by ringing church bells and firing cannons at sunrise."

ElementalDragon

Consider that this study found that the average household spent an extra $3 for 6 months. That is $0.50 per month or about $0.12 per week.

It also does not point out changes for businesses, safety for evening driving, additional family time available. It also didn't take any crime changes into consideration though.

I hate the effect the fall shift causes. I used to live near the eastern border of the Central Time Zone and dealt with sunset at 4:30 PM even in Florida.

Bob Brown

I f%&king hate this clock changing game we do twice a year. I've always had sleep issues and this screws me up even more twice a year.

Zlevee

Matthew77

blargh

Even though you lose an hour when the clocks are set ahead, I get more sleep during the DST months. My kids wake up with the sun, so that extra hour until sunrise really pays off in the mornings on weekends...

Now whether things like this are the federal governments business - that's a totally different question.

jasahl

RockoWasTaken

Galley

osotelo

funtime1

But these updated numbers are rather humorous and continue to prove the point that changing back and forth is pretty much a disaster.

Oh well.

packetsniffer

Though it sounds like you leave your a/c on all the time.

godawgs7

AJ_Syrinx

gforce

Brassen

runforcovermotherf

Step666

Chicago_Dave

slumlord

sisedi

Ya know, this reminds me of the intelligence behind of a military operation I was part of. During the invasion of Grenada, we erected a 50,000 watt AM radio station. *Then* someone asked, hey, does anyone on this island even *have* a radio? Turned out, not very many. So, we shipped in a few planeloads of radios and gave them away, so they could hear our radio station. Then someone thought to ask, hey, do they sell enough batteries in this country for this many radios? Turned out, no they did not. So in came more planeloads, of batteries this time. Is our government always this dumb? Looks like the answer to that is, yes, they are.

jamstigator

[politicalhumor.about.com]

And I also meant to type "So in Indiana furnaces and air conditioners are regulated by clocks instead of thermostats..."

So sue me for rushing my typing all you morans. I must have been excited about getting the first post on a weekend when hardly anyone is here. Morans!

GiltProto

dogtune

Amiash Loves You

Amiash Loves You

AqueousBeef

Me? I'd rather do away with this protocol and always dobserve Daylight savings. I'd rather have one extra hour of daylight throughout the year so I can experience more of the day after the work day stuck in a cubicle staring at a computer screen all day.

jaximflash

Lamont

Mandatory_Field

danz32

theffernan

CarbonatedWater

strider_mt2k

nizzy1115

GiltProto