<![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries - Gizmodo Comments]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries - Gizmodo Comments]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> I think that electronic voting is a good idea for a host of reasons. The problem here was the execution. ATM machine manufacturers should never have been used, if anything, manufacturers of casino machines; much more secure. But the problem with either is that there is too much power and control with too few entities.

The solution here is Open Source. The software and even the pre-election programming of the machines should be all open so it can be checked by 1000's of us geeks. Many sites are dedicated to this concept, but I would like to see it taken a step further.

I think the technology should be seriously old and amazingly simple. Such as: Basic programming, Z80 processors, only double sided PC boards with large traces, that kind of thing. It would also have to generate some kind of paper backup for the voter and the voting system which the voter should review and submit.

Open Source can solve or at least greatly simplify the technical problems. It would also make it much cheaper.

Unfortunately Open Source cannot solve the problem of human corruption. And it seems that we have lots of that on all sides these days...

AlternateEarth

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> I say impose gravest penalty for election rigging both financially and physically (jail time). This should be a federal offense, and no one should be above this law. No one should be able to avoid this penalty by a simple resignation.

drizzt

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> How about a paper ballot and a pen? Sometimes a change in technology isn't a good thing.

photophile

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @Out2gtcha: one better the Ohio River actually belongs to Kentucky :)

BigViper

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @izim1: I do not, in any way, mean this to say that dropping the bombs on Japan was right, as I dont think any armed comflict is "right". I only meant to say that being in a declared state of war, attacks are anticipated, but in peace time, non agression is the expectation. Any war is lose/lose and therefore should not be fought. I hope humanity realizes that, though I fear from our history, that probably wont happen. Peace.

Curves

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @Curves: "a declared state of war" or not, isn't something the defines "terrorism"...

"Many putative definitions of terrorism define as "terrorism" only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal and by a member or members of a group (as opposed to being carried out in a lone attack), and which deliberately target, or else disregard the safety of, non-combatants (civilians).
The sense of moral condemnation is built into the definition of the concept of terrorism (i.e. terrorism is deemed to be an attack on those who should be morally immune from attack)"

in regards to the choosing of bombing targets:

"The Target Committee at Los Alamos on May 10-11, 1945, recommended Kyoto, Hiroshima, Yokohama, and the arsenal at Kokura as possible targets. The committee rejected the use of the weapon against a strictly military objective because of the chance of missing a small target not surrounded by a larger urban area. The psychological effects on Japan were of great importance to the committee members. They also agreed that the initial use of the weapon should be sufficiently spectacular for its importance to be internationally recognized. The committee felt Kyoto, as an intellectual center of Japan, had a population "better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon." Hiroshima was chosen because of its large size, its being "an important army depot" and the potential that the bomb would cause greater destruction because the city was surrounded by hills which would have a "focusing effect".

izim1

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Just a reminder that when we dropped the bomb on Japan, we were in a declared state of war. When 9/11 and Pearl Harbor occured, we were not.

Curves

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @junyo: the point is, it has saved lives by causing fear. that's terrorism. the fear of getting nuked again caused them to just call it quits. because of the outcome of it ending war, it doesnt change the fact of HOW it ended it. through fear. that's the definition of "terrorism". terrorist attack the US just HOPING to cause enough "fear" in us to just withdraw troops from everywhere in the world and stay home. if the terrorist bombings (suicide or otherwise) accomplished their goal, would they ceased to be "terrorist attacks"? if after the planes brought down the twin towers in NYC, the US had just said "man! we gotta stop this. lets just leave them alone and stop messing in their affairs" and withdrawn their troops from everywhere that is NOT the USA, you wouldnt consider those acts "terrorism"? because they woulda saved MANY SOLDIERS lives. now AND in future middle-eastern conflicts.... just because a few "suicide bus bombings" caused a group of people to withdraw from an area and potentially saving many deadly conflicts, it doesnt mean that those acts werent "terrorist"..

p.s remember "the chads".

izim1

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @ANoel:
No, pacifism is the opposite of warfare in general. Once you accept (or have thrust upon you) the concept that warfare is a viable means toward ending a conflict, then ending that war with the minimum of casualties is called "efficiency", or "making the best of an unpleasant situation". "Nuking" and "terrorism" are methods, not a philosophical stances, and despite the emotional context with which they've been imbued, objectively only have meaning in the context of the efficiency with which they can accomplish their goal. To date, nuking/the threat of nuking is much more efficient, and that efficiency has saved lives that would have otherwise been lost in accomplishing (or failing to accomplish) the same goals by other methods.


junyo

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]>

In the end, Ohio might end up scrapping the touchscreen machines entirely and going back to paper ballots, a move that would cost the state about $64 million but would keep elections a touch more trustworthy.

And, how exactly would they have done so in this particular case? The very people that would have collected ballots were the ones running the paperwork here -- you honestly think they couldn't make paper ballots disappear just as easy?

gattsuru

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> i live in columbus, and this is not surprising. i'm a 17 year-old voter (i'll be 18 in november), and no one at my voting place knew what to do with me.

i ended up getting a paper ballot with no issues, only candidates.

glaeven

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @Manve: I think he won the clean way.

You know why? Because there are just that many people in this country stupid stupid enough to re-elect him.

Xavoc

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @NoStyle: I don't know about Diebold, but I know that Kerry and Bush are relatives.

Xavoc

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> haha.you thought bush got to be president the clean way??no you didn't...you're just too f^king lazy to do anything about it

Manve

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @junyo:
"Dropping the atomic bombs probably saved several million lives, on both sides.
That's kinda the opposite of terrorism."

What do you call it then? I've always thought the opposite of "terrorism" was "pacificism", not, "nuking".



ANoel

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> I thought Cuyahoga county completely switched over to paper ballots. At least my town (in Cuyahoga) used the new paper ballots. I saw a lone electronic machine hooked up but it didn't seem to be in use.

RomeoDude

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> I too live in Ohio but in Warren county we used paper ballots.

Boognish

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Isn't the president or past president of Diebold a cousin or business partner with the Bushes?

NoStyle

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @Redwraithvienna:
Every major American city has or has had a political machine at some point, that could deliver elections and offices to the people it choose. The Chicago machine has managed to keep the Daley family in power for the better part of 60 years. All with paper ballots.

@ANoel:
When an American soldier is wounded, he gets a Purple Heart. Those are all WWII era, because the number that was made and stockpiled in anticipation of the casualties they expected to sustain in the invasion of the Japanese home islands has been sufficient to hand out medals during all the subsequent conflicts in which the US has been involved; all the soldiers shot or killed in Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, DS1 and Iraq, and the military still has about 100,000 on hand. The Japanese had begun handing out crude bamboo pikes and farming equipment in southern costal cities where the American were expected to land and telling civilians that it was their duty to kill at least one soldier before they died. Dropping the atomic bombs probably saved several million lives, on both sides. That's kinda the opposite of terrorism.



junyo

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @ANoel: After the nastyness of Iwo Jima, I can't really blame them for resorting to such a tactic.

I wonder how many more civilians would have been killed via starvation, sickness, stray bombs/bullets, etc had we been forced to invade the islands.

Xavoc

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @nocar: Rush Limberger is now encouraging his republican sheep to vote for Hillary Clinton in the open primaries. He's trying to prolong the battle between Obama and Clinton as long as possible to benefit McCain.

Aside from the "doesn't (didn't) Rush hate McCain" part. This could actually hurt McCain to some extend because his campaign is going to be starved of media attention for the next few months. Come the DNC in Denver most Americans will have forgotten there even is a Republican candidate!
Of course, it won't matter since the Democrats are set to go all 1968 again and blow themselves up.
It should have been a cakewalk. A hugely unpopular president, economy in the shitter, a prolonged and unpopular war, two immensely talented candidates with record breaking fund raising operations and they are going to eat their own instead. Way to go!

wjousts

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @pepethedog: What most people don't get is the easiest place to cheat is at registration or in having the same person vote many times.

Um, yeah. Having people vote numerous times is much more dangerous than letting someone hack the database.

The same way that we all get way more magazine subscription notices in the mail than we get spam in our inboxes.

Auld_Lang_Ziety

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @Xavoc:
Of course there are lots of definitions for terrorism - mine excludes legal, and illegal, or war or any other "qualifiers".

"terrorism

noun
the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear".
Mrs. Aikenhead, my 3rd grade teacher exemplified this.

If I read it right, it was the fear of another nuclear bombing that caused the surrender.




ANoel

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @nocar:

Kinda like how the Kos kiddies and Democrats voted in the early open primaries and foisted McCain on the Republican party. Turn about is fair play. Stop whining and commence the destruction of your party over identity politics. Americans with sanity will be laughing at you all the way to Denver. We're just waiting to see which protected group's representative will get thrown under the bus by the Socialist party this year.

ranum

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @smitty1123: i tell that joke all the time! Glad i'm not the only one who remembered it from Loony Tunes before they sterilised them.

qbrad

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> If they revert back to paper ballots, someone's just gonna lose the Mac Air they keep the tally on when the ballots get thrown out.

tinshaker

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Thanks for posting this article Adam. Voting fraud is real and is not being given the oversight it deserves. Go to [www.blackboxvoting.org] for a grassroots approach to the problem.

@ANoel: Agreed with modifications. We should appeal for UN monitored and sanctioned elections, but let's not restrict it to just Pakistani's. Evidently, it'll take a world to make sure we have valid, verified elctions. I don't believe anybody's hand-picked Supreme Court should overrule a sovereign state's Supreme Court and deny recounts in contested presidential elections.

lianna_g

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @ANoel: That would be funny if it wasn't becoming more possible by the hour.

(probably just me)

strider_mt2k

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> I too live in Ohio. The problem isn't entirely with the way we vote. A major part of the problem is with the people chosen to staff local polling stations. I've voted at the same place for 5 years, my parents have voted there for 20, and everytime they(the election board) has a group of septageians manning the poles. They are constantly making mistakes; mispelled names, wrong addresses, etc...

What we need are competant polls workers!

iBoxer

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @bpatten:
Nice. Thanks!

I always knew my random findings were correct. How could I have ever doubted myself!!


Out2gtcha

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @cgiddings:

"The Ohio driver's education manual states that you must honk the horn whenever you pass another car.

No it doesn't.

Damn. It would have been fun to take a drivers test in Ohio if it did.

Damn you Google/Wikipedia!!

Out2gtcha

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Might as well pick the elections with Ouija board for all my vote counts for anymore.

axiomatic

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @ANoel: #3 doesn't actually apply... They declared war on the US and attacked first. Or was it, they attacked first, then presented us a declaration of war.

Japan could have saved itself from being nuked if rogue elements within Japan's military hadn't worked to kidnap the emperor and prevent his taped announcement of surrender from being released.

The US also spent a LOT of money rebuilding a country that attacked them.

@strangepork: They didn't invent it, this has been going on for as long as animals have roamed the earth.

Xavoc

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @nocar:

For what it's worth, the US Founding Fathers practically invented "if you can't win, then cheat" politics.

Also, they started an armed revolution against their government.

Just saying...

strangepork

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @cgiddings:
Regarding #1: I live in ohio, You ARE supposed to sound your horn. (in case you're wondering, no one actually does)

[www.bmv.ohio.gov]

Page 36 (page 42 of the pdf) in the section on passing to the left

Back to the point, this article disgusts me.


bpatten

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Bugs: I dunno Mr. Fudd, why is Ohio such a strange state?
Elmer: Because it's high in the middle and round on both ends! Hyuck hyuck hucky.
/pie in face

smitty1123

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Following my friend, @Out2gtcha:'s lead, to brighten the day... I repost this from about a year ago...

During a propaganda tour, President Bush visits a school to explain his
politics to kids.
He invites the kids to ask him questions.
Bobby stands up and tells him "Mr. President, I got 3 questions":

1. How come, that although the count of votes was not in your favor, you
still won the election?

2. Why do you want to attack Iraq without an imminent reason?

3. Don't you also consider the bombing of Hiroshima the biggest
terrorist attack of all times?

Before the president can answer, the recess bell rings, and the kids
leave the room. After they came back, Bush invited them again to ask
questions.
Joey stands up and tells him "Mr. President, I got 5 questions":

1. How come, that although the count of votes was not in your favor, you
still won the election?

2. Why do you want to attack Iraq without an imminent reason?

3. Don't you also consider the bombing of Hiroshima the biggest
terrorist attack of all times?

4. Why did the recess bell ring 20 minutes early?

5. Where's Bobby?











ANoel

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> 1) The Ohio driver's education manual states that you must honk the horn whenever you pass another car.
2) In Cleveland it's illegal to catch mice without a hunting license.
3) "Hang On Sloopy" is the official state rock song.

@Out2gtcha:
1) No it doesn't.
2) This was repealed a long time ago, but most extermination services continue to comply with it.
3) Don't remind me.

cgiddings

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> I have been a volunteer, trained Election observer for over 20 years in the state of Washington, a state like Ohio where it can be a challenge. Computer voting machines, like mechanical ones are a terrible idea. Only Florida could have screwed up punch ballots which actually work very well. Think about it, they worked for 80 years with few problems doing the world's accounting. Paper marking was going to be a cure because everyone under the age of 60 had done standardized testing with them and knew how to fill in the holes. It's a worse problem than hanging chads. Actually hanging chads are no problem if you clean the ballot before running them thru the counting machine. Florida simply ran them thru several times using the jiggle of the machine to knock off loose chads. If you are that cheap and lazy you should turn OFF the counters for those jiggling runs since you will get different results before all the loose chads fall off.
What most people don't get is the easiest place to cheat is at registration or in having the same person vote many times. The worst possible system is the idea of a voting receipt. It guarantees multiple voting. In states like Oregon with NO history of cheating it only took one election for massive fraud to take place. Oregon & Washington have mail in ballots. Show ballot, get $20 for how you voted, mail. You can make a few hundred bucks an election. There is video tape of it happening. It pays to vote many times and no one has ever been prosecuted.
The electoral college is there for a reason. Without it massive cheating in a single big US city could throw every election. The solutions are difficult because the founders set up a system without a secret ballot. If you voted for George Washington or Abe Lincoln it was there for everyone to see. You could look up how your neighbors voted years after the event.

pepethedog

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Tin soldiers and Diebold coming...

suburbancowboy

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @makanai: Santa IS real.

We can, by law, request a paper ballot, but they dont count them unless the election is "really close". I, for one, want my vote counted (just once), either electronically OR paper.

PS - To make this all a little more interesting, the company that makes the voting machines, Diebold, is HQd in Ohio. Makes one wonder....

Curves

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Paper ballots - meet paper shredder

strictnein

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @Curves: I live in Ohio, too. I'm surprised by the idea of rigged voting.

And I just found out that Santa Claus may not be real.

Personally, I just want a piece of paper with a bunch of names on it that I can circle. If it means that it will cost a little more and take two or three whole DAYS to get the Ohio vote counted, that's fine by me. Speed and democracy don't mix.

makanai

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @junyo:

Sure it happens but it is a lot more difficult (or at least should be) in a country like the US.

Redwraithvienna

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> How did Bush win again?

DestroyerMTL

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> im a poll worker in ohio, we had issues under a republican attorney general, and this election had issues in the same cities, and the attorney general was a democrat. its not the system thats broken, but some of the people working the polls.
so, if you want to keep the system honest, sign up and help work at the polls.


higgy

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> We

Are

Screwed

Thanks George!

strider_mt2k

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @Out2gtcha: Is that where the term Honkies comes from?

Xavoc

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @johnnyabnormal: Until someone grabs a stack of Obama or McCain votes and throws them away so that Hillary can win.

Xavoc

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> ...Clinton?

FP ph15h

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Fun Ohio stuff:

-In Cleveland it's illegal to catch mice without a hunting license.

-"Some Democrats say the estimated $60 billion dollar cost of a war with Iraq could be better spent at home. When he heard that, President Bush agreed and announced plans to bomb Ohio."
Jay Leno

-"Hang On Sloopy" is the official state rock song.

-The Ohio driver's education manual states that you must honk the horn whenever you pass another car.

Just trying to brighten everyone's day a bit.


Out2gtcha

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> @junyo: Well, at least that leaves a paper trail...

johnnyabnormal

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Forget going back to paper ballots. First, lets get rid of the electoral college and re-reorganize state voting legislation so it isn't so friggin' difficult for candidates to get on the ballot in each state that they're supported in. If any of you saw Ralph Nader (I know, I know) on TDS a few weeks back, you'd know what I was talking about.

Electronic voting is by far not the only problem, nor the worst problem, facing the democratic process in this country at the moment.

TJ

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Rush Limberger is now encouraging his republican sheep to vote for Hillary Clinton in the open primaries. He's trying to prolong the battle between Obama and Clinton as long as possible to benefit McCain. Our founding fathers would be disgusted at these "if you can't win, then cheat" politics.

nocar

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Uhm, you DO realize that the scantron machines used to scan your paper ballot are just as susceptible to being hacked right?

Xavoc

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Rewrite the book and rule the pages,
Saving face, secured in faith,
Bury, burn the waste

Windhawk

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> "In the end, Ohio might end up scrapping the touchscreen machines entirely and going back to paper ballots, a move that would cost the state about $64 million but would keep elections a touch more trustworthy."

Because heaven knows no one EVER rigged an election that used paper ballots...

junyo

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> I think the US, supervised by the UN, should import armed Pakistani election scrutineers to oversee every voting kiosk.

Now, who'll be the first to say... "I welcome our armed Pakistani voting overlords" ?

ANoel

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> I live in Ohio, and NO one here is surprised by a rigged vote, especially after the last presidential election. The least they could do is give us a reach around......

Curves

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Why are we even still considering the use of these machines? It should be a crime to use them. I wonder if it is within one's rights to refuse to vote on one of those and demand a paper ballot. Anybody know?

Slartibartfast

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Hey, ho, were'd you go Ohio?

klaybc

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> Its Cuyahoga County. No one who lives or has lived there would be surprised by this.

Turing_Machine

]]> <![CDATA[Ohio Voting Machines Messed With During Recent Primaries]]> We are shocked by this? I'm not.

axiomatic

]]>