TurboFool

cjmaher

@Topcat: "IE7 was a "critical update" in the sense that it fixed a ton of the stupid security holes of IE6. It is not analogous to software being shoved down your intertube that you do not have installed already; even Firefox auto-updates."

Wow, what a great pro-M$ argument. IE6 is crap and so is IE7. Safari isn't shoved down your intertube, they give you an easy way to install it if you wish. Please.

cschanner

*blows off internet dust of 10 years* [en.wikipedia.org]

And yet apple users have no qualms? I would be irate if I were using MSN Messenger for mac and it said I had to install IE7.

Sixxtwo

Ypoknons

GundamSLR

Wwhat

Geeum

Instead of Updating an existing program on your computer they are adding ANOTHER one, and having the accept box checked by default. They are setting it up so that people that are used to it being just a simple update install software they did not want to their computer.

Simple solution, delete iTunes, use ephPod to transfer songs to your devices, use KBPlayer / VLC to watch quicktime movies, and keep enjoying Firefox.

Who needs more software that actively seeks and takes over all of your file associations?

skilled1

The 'they can just click out' argument is moot because the 'average' user (PC and Mac) is not going to know the difference and click proceed anyway because this is in 'APPLE SOFTWARE UPDATE'. But it's not really 'Apple Software Update' if they are pushing software you never used/asked for in the first place, is it?

TKWarrior

Lorne

jerkface

"Oh, and you CAN tell Software Update (on Macs) to ignore a given update."

You can do exactly the same in Apple Software Update on Windows. Just select the app (in this case Safari), go to [Tools] and select "Ignore this update".

Dearhaw

Mandatory_Field

I really have only used Safari on a Mac a few times so I decided to try it. I uninstalled it 10 minutes later. Compared to Firefox it is shit.

ProfWho

Oh, and you CAN tell Software Update (on Macs) to ignore a given update.

Buran

Microsoft provides tools for people to stop Windows Update from installing or bugging the user about service packs and they also provided a tool to stop Windows Update from installing or bugging the user about IE7.

Lstormy10

Sneak is the right word here.

Preselect to install = sneak.

I'm very pro-Apple (check my posting history), but this isn't the way for Apple to increase Safari use. It just isn't right.

NotMe

But on my Vista Hp Laptop.. it ok..
Apple needs to Fix the Memory consumption its Ridiculous, I can Have like 9 diffrent windows using ie7 and have only 1 single page on Safari on windows and still not equal how much memory it takes..

I have to Say Apple has failed (at the moment) with safari on Windows..

DJJS

Mandatory_Field

Oh, and SP1's working great. Thanks for asking.

@mricyfire: Microsoft's never asked me to install a program that I don't already have. Windows Update only updates things I have installed. Imagine that.

Topcat

Two wrongs don't make a right. Who cares when MS does this sort of thing? MS does this all the time, we expect it. Apple has always been a bit more up front, and while i guess you could say they're playing off MS's hand by giving Windows users the kind of "choice" they're already used to, that doesn't make Apples leaning in this direction ok. I mean, what, one big software company starts being total jerks about distributing their software and so that makes it OK? WTF get off the kool aid.

nutbastard

Jon

How quickly you forget. By the way, how's Vista SP1 working out for you?

cschanner

mastakilla

sneak? WTF you smoking? This wasn't Microsoft auto patching and auto installing vs. a screen pop up with an option checked. There *is* a difference.

I know it's cool to hate Apple these days because they're actually successful at something when it was cool they were the plucky underdog but this is a tiny bit on the ridiculous side.

trekkie

geschmidtt

no they dont.

8026mn

8026mn

Mandatory_Field

xxdesmus

The difference being - MS don't ask first, they just bend you over and give it to you...

MINI Driver

mricyfire

it says it right there before you install Itunes and they still install Apple Software Update & Bonjour

utube2007

It should be a kinder and gentler market for us consumers, but it just isn't. If the OS wars heat up for real its a win for everyone, so I'm tolerant of a little Cut&Thrust from sparring companies.

W3WEASEL

Reilaos~

How do you update something you don't have ? You can't you install it!

By what you said it should be called Apple Software Installer

utube2007

It's NOT a leap to go from A to B
If not Apple why not MS?
If not ME why not MY KIDS?
If not MY MACHINE why not WORK MACHINE?

Don't stand for this... just bacause you know what you are doing, don't think everything is hunkly dory with this plan.

Denver_80203

cp87

Get over it Mozilla.

ttech10

If Mozilla released an installer called "Mozilla Software Update", I'd expect to see Firefox, Thunderbird, and everything else they produce. I certainly wouldn't freak out if it pushed out T-Bird (which I don't use) in addition to FF.

sumocat

Why does Mozilla have a CEO anyway? How does the company even make any money? This just seems like an opportunity to take a stab at Safari eating up more market share now that it's been gaining momentum on Windows machines and taking away downloads from his company. He read a story that put Safari in a negative light, and is trying to light a fire under it.

Lame.

RoCKSTaH53

But is it so lame and unprecedented as to have

(A) a CEO of a rival company publicly condemn it;
(B) multiple blogs and news sites reporting it; and
(c) dozens if not hundreds of reader comments following each one of those reports??

"If MS did something like this, you Apple fanboys would be all over it"

Bull-fucking-crap.

If MS or Google or Adobe or Yahoo or AOL or any other company pulled something like this off, which, incidentally, they all do on a daily basis, this wouldn't even be fucking news.

Yes, there are lame and evil things that all companies, Apple included, do. But for some people, they all become 10 times more evil when Apple does it. Give me a fucking break.

Dearhaw

GoodBytes

scott53531

paristotle

xxdesmus

One of the things I love about my Mac is that it didn't come pre-loaded with crapware that I don't want. Safari is definitely not crapware, but the tactic Apple employed here doesn't show the best judgement.

NotMe

Now, that said, I think there are some valid points being made here, such as it perhaps not being checked on by default. Apple has been doing that for a while with Software update on Mac OS X. Here's the thing though- The average (Mac) user will want about 90%+ of the updates that pop up in SWUP, so I'd rather have the 90% I want checked and have to manually uncheck the 10% I don't want than the other way around. Maybe Apple should reverse this for the Windows crowd though, since it's obvious this is seen as an attempt to undermine their computers.

As for the Mozilla CEO comments, if he were a neutral party, I'd be able to take it more seriously. As it is though, he has much to lose from this type of distribution system, so of COURSE he's upset about it. He's probably just mad he doesn't have a way to get Firefox onto everyones computers that is as easy.

mm2270

It's almost as annoying as Adobe Bridge.

lafond66

daversW

If I want it installed on my computer, I will actively seek out the software. Anything else is a bad idea.

This isn't exactly new for Apple. Just look at Quicktime and iTunes. Unfortunately, it's also one of the places where Google drops the ball too.

I notice a lot of the Apple schmucks don't understand the difference between "Opt-in" and "Opt-out".

soggy_cheerio

drdroo

Well lookie here.... they were sheep in wolves clothing!!!!!Oh my! the alimighty Buck$$ speaks.... Wake up kiddies, u have been victimized!!!!!!

Google owns your mind, your clicks, and if you are unfortuante, your cell phone number, Apple owns your tunes, Sun... ahhh since they dumped McNeally the whinnie, they got nuthin... and Adobe is flashing you in an old dingy raincoat.

And what is the evil Billy doin?
Tossing billions at health issues around the world. And what is Goog doin? Passing millions to lobbists to protect their monopolistic fantasies!
And Apple...... your music belongs to us!!!!

EyeReeMember

Safari has a home button…

right click the toolbar and choose "customize toolbar"
then drag and drop the icons you want to use.

As for this issue… unless it installs without permission i dont see the problem, how many times would windows users would use the Apple Updater

Personally, having a fresh install of XP recommend multiple [costly] software packages to me upon starting up is worse.

Accordion

rb4dv

rb4dv

trekkie

Example 41: I right click the back button on FF, see the 16 pages I've already been and can slide down and click to whatever page I want. No add-ons needed (there aren't any for the PC platform, by the way), no separate, superfluous menu.

I right click on Safari's back button and, oh yeah, right click isn't exactly what you'd call a "mature concept" in Apple world. Must be too busy working on some multi-touch UI which accelerates the dumbing down of computing while increasing RSI.

lianna_g

Try reading the story again.

Step666

tehronin

As soon as you move out of your mommas basement and she starts calling you because Super Slick Porn Bar has somehow installed itself on her i386 because the machine asked her a question and she just said "yes, sure whatever" -You will change your mind. Walk grandma thought a registry hack, I dare you.

Denver80203

max_

iPhoneGroupie

Mozilla just got pissed.

Akmed

MrBlahBlah

ParJoe

Go home and screw up your own machine. Safari might be dandy but you're 2 steps from a OS reload... trust me.

Denver80203

rdldr1

Safari isn't supported by a number of web apps I need to use at work for checking my hours, reporting them, etc. and now it tries to sneak in my back door with it's inanimate little compass feet. Next thing you know it'll automatically make itself the default browser.

The nerve!

Siegeman

its really awesome to watch them grow as a company, who knows, maybe 5-10 years from now they'll be forcing other crap on its users and releasing devolution OS's.

rainfever

frigg

craig

Kingteddybear

ACDlite

Kingteddybear

CarbonatedWater

doshomik

But I am on his side about the annoyance of their software. Quicktime is a PITA and I usually write a script that deletes registry references to it and call it qttask.exe because every time something tries to run quicktime it wants to run an updater or install something.

archercc

On a side note, does Safari run in the background even after closing the program like iTunes does? That sounds even a bit more like malware.

Brookespeed

sisedi

karmaghost

In the case of iTunes, Apple makes money off of just about everyone who has it on there computers. Hell, its best feature is the simple way to purchase music, movies and TV shows. So to make the case for them to sneak a copy of Safari onto unsuspecting users is very hard to justify and boarders on 'dickish'

Johnny Chimpo

Updater programs especially annoy me on my carpc when I connect to a 3g network and bloody quicktime tries to install iTunes over a very small pipe.

Oh well. someone give apple a multimillion dollar slap on the wrist as seems to happen most of the time these days.

malcs

diabolusunknown

Yes, I understand you still have a choice either way, but now you be able to click "OK" all the way through without having to worry about the repercussions.

GC736

elpedro

Its not that Safari is a bad browser (which it absolutely is in comparison to Firefox and Opera), its that your getting software installed that you never wanted. I shouldnt have to uninstall software i never wanted just to update another piece of software. That makes no sense at all, and while its not Malware, it is Annoyingware, just like Quicktime and iTunes. Ill stick with QT Alternative and Anything else as replacements for those two.

Remember, were talking about PC's here, not your Mac where democracy is frowned upon.

diabolusunknown

Joseph

BoardStupid

Just a FYI X.zz represents like 3.1 or whatever i didn't want to use random numbers. :D

Ryanraven

If Microsoft did this, there would be backlash so big that you would hear about it on CNN.

Just a thought......

johncon3

Give me a break!

MINI Driver

jhcovert

ohcrapohcrapohcrapthebloggersaregonnaragebecauseappleisn'tperfectiamsofiredwho'sgoingtofeedmykidsohcrapohcrapohcrap!

SpoonyBard

deenster

ANyway...sneaky update software is bad advertising. Especially when I have to hunt down where it is to uninstall it.

ParJoe

I do not like Apple one bit.

kibets

However, I voted who cares. The worst case is you install Safari and don't use it. The best case is you install Safari and win the lottery. Although the very worst case is you install Safari, win the lottery, but you're morbidly obese and confront a string of bad luck that culminates when your plane crashes on a strange island that has a panda bear, a sentient tornado, underground bunkers, hostile others, and a cloying doctor on it who likes to go hiking.

frigg

TinyLightning

And these kind of practices are a big part of why I'm a Linux user now. When I hit the repositories, I get exactly what I selected -- no more, no less.

HeartBurnKid

Why can't I make it stop asking me about the iTunes option? That's as annoying as the Safari thing, just less shady.

FranklinTurtle

FOUL Apple! Yellow card.

Denver80203

The quotes do not make him sound pissed, however. The points are well taken. However, it is not an unusual practice. Anyone who has updated their copy of Acrobat Reader only to find Google Toolbar installed knows that companies sneak things in through the update features.

I have actually started making a practice of removing from the registry any update application, including from Apple, Adobe, and Sun. Not only do I not have to worry about back door lovin, I also do not get those stupid update messages anymore.

Monty