AugustaCretan

"...who can be seen in the video wearing one of those scary demon helmets..."

cupidpsyche

akmarksman

its the new microsoft vs apple! :P

Shockage

I always liked how the Veritech's looked like current aircraft. [en.wikipedia.org] Macross Frontier comes out soon, it will be interesting to see what the new craft look like.

Technogen

F35: Multi-role strike fighter. Primary role: blowing shit up on the ground, while still being a decent dog fighter. The F35 will serve with the USAF, Marines, US Navy and a select set of allied nations.

F22+F35: two great tastes that taste great together.

olafson

The could atleast offer us a certificate saying you own 1/1000000000000 of an f-22.

warf0x0r

pevans34

shenanigans61

even though these will be overshadowed by robotic aircraft wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy before 2040. (2012?)

Captain Nobody

SECOND

marcdinkel

That makes sense since in some circles the F-14 is reffered to as the "aluminum overcast" in an ACM (air combat maneuvering) context. It's huge. Doesn't matter since it's made for a totally different job. Doesn't really matter these days in Iraq since just about everything can have a JDAM hung on it. - including the F-14, making it the F/A-14 :)

marcdinkel

The US will not export the F-22 to other countries (even friendly ones.)

They will export the F-35.

That right there speaks volumes about which is more advanced.

Bender

smittydc

levi501h

Ednonymous

#1. The F-35 and the F-22 are different planes, designed for different roles. The F-22 is an air dominance fight(although later modified to the F/A role to drop bombs when we realized the extreme cost of the aircraft and the extreme lack of a worth adversary in the air). Alot of the F-35's tech came from the R&D done on the F-22 program, so to claim a specific cost for either program is a bit misleading. Anyhoo...the F-35 is an all-around attack aircraft that does alot of jobs well. The F-22 is easily the most advanced fighter ever built...It does one job and does it better than anything else...which is why it costs quite a bit more than the F-35.

#2. The amount of cash brought into our economy once we start exporting this thing will be insane. The F-35 will compete on the global market with planes like the Eurofighter, Gripen, and Mirage 2000. I can't seem to find the exact numbers of potential exports(sales), but 40 billion is a small chunk of change for the sorta market-share this thing is gonna have. Lets also not forget that planes need parts...expensive parts...parts that will be made in the USA for decades to come. $$$$

Thunderdome

elvindeath

Khyron, take me away!

holocron

redgreen21

johnnyabnormal

Canoehead

U2_piggyback

Also, to those people who think it's a waste of money: every time we stop developing our military because we "don't need it," someone else picks up the slack and we're caught with our pants down. See: World War 1 and World War 2.

Charles

dirk1965

read before you flame.

m4ximusprim3

Luuey

Please stop believing everything you hear and do a little searching, before you start posting incorrect.

mricyfire

OK, some non-US aircraft are good too. ;-)

XJ_4x4

bartekli

On a side note, thank GAWD I dn't come to this blog for social and politcal commentary. "we already increased spending and our kids are still stupid so let's spend more on guns" is the most asinine argument i've heard maybe in my life.

Claystil

weatherman

Gann

Gann

SonyGuts

you said duty,lol

my fav planes of all time
a10
f15

both of which are prime examples of american design. take the biggest most baddest-assed _______ and build a plane around it.
the f15 air superiority fighter was the worlds premier military fighting aircraft, for decades.

remember the sr71, all those records it set and broke BEFORE being declassified?

different planes are required for different missions. but i agree that (hopefully) by 2040 fighters will be UAV, and maybe we can hove robots fight for us.

until we have destroids and super dimensional fortresses, i will support military technology since it does trickle down (you should see my civilian GAU), think about things like GPS, satt radio, tiny tiny portable communication systems (cell phones)... i thught the point of the military was to start a conflict (to cover research expenditures) to give us things to talk about on gizmodo

tegronin

Taomyn

No! The 40 billion spent on this aircraft was well spent! Fix the spending problem in the Education system and go back to principles in teaching and institute school uniforms. Go back to basics to make sure ours kids can read/write in their grade level before you teach them how to put a condom onto a banana or that loving their own sex is cool or whatever! Do something else to control sky rocketing public school tuitions! Then I might agree.

It's a bloody shame that in a third world country like the Dominican Republic, a typical public higher ed is free and the cost of books can be counted in the fingers of your hand. This in a country whose GDP is probably less than that of Rhode Island. That in a country where the typical citizen probably makes no more than $500/month. When I visited there last year I didn't feel raped by their tax system. And, no, I'm not rich to not notice raping tax systems. I happen to be very frugal and tend to count my pennies so I do notice extra charges.

I hope you don't take offense to what I say here. It's not meant as a confrontational comeback. I would hesitate paying more on education until they redo the whole system and start from scratch then determine what has worked in the past and focus on that first. Then I would be willing to support the "this would've been better spent on education..." argument. But until that time, it's like giving a quarter to a bum. Chances are highly unlikely it will be well spent!

apeguero

The JSF pilot pretty much has to do double duty as a Pilot and a WSO..............but with glass cockpit should make concentrating on the task at hand slightly easier.

Out2gtcha

The venerable Eagle has been in service since December of 1976, and it's crazy to think that it still has never been shot down in an air-to-air combat.
When the Raptor comes on line, it will be the premier air-superiority fighter for many, many decades to come.
The JSF is in NO way a bad platform; as a matter of fact it is quite a bit more cost effective and versatile than the F-22. Branches like the Marines and Royal Marines in UK have no use for an air superiority fighter and are in need of the VTOVL capabilities of the JFS; especially considering the size of the British carrier fleet that the JFSs will be based off of. These are the same "jump ships" that they use with the AV-8Bs now; having a super short take-off/landing deck with a STO ramp at the end when the plans are loaded with stores.

Out2gtcha

mrxcel

I was surprised at how small the thing is compared to say, an F-14.

strider_mt2k

ripfire

'Bridge to nowhere' is right.

FightingChance

@apeguero: that's a pretty ass-backward argument. You might as well say we could spend our tax money on making Fabergé eggs and have a similar effect on the economy. Truth is that spending wisely on things like education is much more likely to have a positive effect on the economy. Money spent on jet fighters is money that is not spent on other things. And if you're talking about just military spending, money spent on jet fighters is money not spent on bullet-proof vests or uparmored humvees. You go to war with the army you have only if you haven't spent wisely on the things you need.

That said, I'm all in favor of overwhelming superiority. The military needs both an air superiority plane and a top-notch ground attack/etc plane. The F35 program covers everything. The F22 may be overkill but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it, especially with the New World Order crumbling.

weatherman

uberfu

The F-35 being "less expensive" is a relative term_

As like people above and other articles have mentioned that much of the technology that went into the F-35 is based on the technology from the F-22 - thus also helping to drop the cost of development on the former_ So factor in all the costs that went to the F-22 and were then migrated over to the F-35 it balances out more_ And makes the F-35 look not as cheap as everyone seems to think_

@Out2gtcha: That almost looks like something out of a scene from BSG_ There was a test done when the F-22 came out - the AirForce tested 1 F-22 against 7 F-15s in a mock dogfight_ The F-22 outflew - outmanuevered and took out all 7 F-15s before they could get a lock on the F-22_ And before that an American F-15 had never been defaeted in air-to-air combat_

uberfu

Serolf Divad

olternaut

av8thor

I second this!

uberfu

+ Watch video

The thrust vectoring (ability to have the exhaust nozzles point the thrust in a direction not necessarily the same as the plane) give the plane the fabled "super maneuverability". These and other skunk-works type developments along with superior avionics makes the F-22 THE most advanced fighter in the world. PERIOD.

The JSF (F-35) is a great airplane, and while it is less expensive, and more versatile than the Raptor, and maybe a more stable air-to-ground attack platform, but no where near as advanced, expensive or as capable, especially in air-to-air combat as the F-22.

Out2gtcha

None of this means that the F-35 is a shabby aircraft by any means_

The F-16 or the Hawker Harrier couldn't take on an F-15 at their peak anymore than the F-35 could take on an F-22_

But none of these aircraft were built with the purpose of taking each other on in their respective time periods_

They were designed to work in unison to acheive a joint purpose_ Plain and simple_ And that's all the F-35 is - the next peice to this Era's Air technology_

If you compare it to it's predecessor the F-16 - by all means - it's more advanced - and would probably run circles around it all day long without breaking a sweat_

The F-35 is not something to take lightly and as an American I am glad we have it and not Middle East Insurgnents_

In any event keep up the good work Jesus - I always enjoy your writing_

uberfu

av8thor

However, as you hit on, spending money on R&D keeps people employed designing fighters, people employed building them, and people employed flying and maintaining them. Consider the F-35 a public works project like building a bridge to nowhere.

Then consider that some time in the future we may again have a need for a sophisticated fighter jet, and that the F-35 program will be a stepping stone to a more advanced weapon that we may need someday for an actual good cause (ie. not Iraq).

Canadian Impostor

Well that explains it! Did you forget to send this memo to the Iraqi and Afghan insurgents? 'Cause I don't think them and us are on the same page.

tundraboy

You my friend are horribly incorrect and it shows you don't know much about planes. The top of the line stuff that Russia has is the SU-47 which ONE has been made with no plans of making more. And then you have China whos current plane is the J-11 which is currently their cream of the crop. And then you have the F-15 which outperforms BOTH of those planes much less the F-22, F-35 and some other goodies that you can find on our plane developers sites...go do some research

mricyfire

Barry99705

So only in air-to-air combat the F-22 is better.

But that's not what the Article states!

@Jesus Diaz: Yep and of course Wikipedia - as we all know - is the end all authority on everything accurate - right?

Go research it elsewhere - I promise you that the F-22 is more advanced_

But since you like quoting Wikipedia so much:
[en.wikipedia.org]
Proposed foreign sales -
Unlike many other tactical fighters, the opportunity for export is currently non-existent because the export sale of the F-22 is barred by federal law. There was a time in the 1970s when the then-new F-16 also had many restrictions. However, regardless of restrictions, very few allies would even be considered for export sale because the F-22 is such a sensitive and expensive system. Most current customers for U.S. fighters are either acquiring earlier designs like the F-15, or F-16 or are waiting to acquire the F-35, which contains much of the F-22's technology but is designed to be cheaper and more flexible.

The key information of this is in the last sentence:
or F-16 or are waiting to acquire the F-35, which contains much of the F-22's technology but is designed to be cheaper and more flexible.

Everyone seems to be comparing Apples to Bowling Balls here_ The 2 Fighters - as I said before - serve 2 different purposes_ But the the F-22 is more advanced currently as far as capabilities and always will be_ The F-35 right now as slightly more advanced technology only because it's 5 years newer and the development upgrades it has will migrate to the F-22_

Minor things like Thrust-Vectoring - SuperCruise and a more advanced Stealth Technology the F-35 does not have_

If these 2 Jets were in a dog-fight with each other [even if it were friendly and for testing the capabilities] I gaurantee the F-22 would win the encounter_

Here's a decent third party break down of the differences between the 2 jets:
[www.globalsecurity.org]

But it just repeats information already released by both Lockheed and Boeing about both aircraft_

@pferde_schwanz:absolutely - and that would then make the F-35 a support aircraft_ And once again deflate the statement in the article about the F-35 being the world's most advanced fighter_ And that's what this whole conversation is about_ The F-35 is not the world's most advanced fighter_

uberfu

aboriginal

Good God...that's a beautiful airplane.
I'd like to see the jump jet do a demo.

shenanigans61

That same mentality is why we sucked big time in the skies of Vietnam. We ran a SAC force and totally forgot about TAC - in other words, we built bombers and very fast, strike aircraft because we figured missile technology and radar would handle any fighters out there. We were very wrong and nearly got our asses handed to us by the North Vietnam pilots and their Russian trainers. We learned our lesson.

Although they do cost a lot of money, I would rather we spend it on these weapons. Besides, the money feeds the local economy where they are being built and also the national economy when you think about it. War is good business. War deterrence is even better business. I would agree with your point if we were spending that money on purchasing Euro Fighters or Su-37s where those fighters affect the US economy in no way what so ever. But this F35 and F22 are designed here, developed here, built here, tested here, and ultimately flown by us, and in the case of the F35 at least, as far as I can tell, will also be sold to select nations around the world. Kind of like where the Air Force has announced it will be entering into agreement with Air Bus Industries Military Division to purchase the Military equivalent of the A330, to be used for Air Tankers. Why US Officials did this is beyond me. Why not spend the money on Boeing instead.

Now, until the day comes when we can all hold hands around the world, light up a big ol' doobie and sing Cumbaya, the more of these WMDs we keep developing and building, the safer I feel.

apeguero

Out2gtcha

MJDeviant

The technology in the F-22 Raptor has pushed the outright cost to put in service significantly higher than any other strike fighter. This is why the JSF exits. It was designed as a platform that could use slightly modified variants for ALL branches of the US armed forces. Similar to the F-16, the F-35 has is a stable air-to-air & air-to-ground combat platform, with a more viable production cost and a base platform and uses small changes to suit the needs of each branch of the US military:

-The US AF will be using the
F-35A (CTOL) Same configuration the US marines will use without the vertical lift engine and slightly lighter for air combat operations.

-The UK Royal AF and the US Marines will be using the
F-35B (STOVL) for vertical and short landing, replacing their aging fleet of AV-8B Harriers.

-The US Navy and UK Royal Navy will be using the
F-35C (CV) carrier version with a wing span extended by 8 feet, more wing area and a strengthened undercarriage for carrier duty.

Out2gtcha

USA2Mexico0

thedancingrogue

mricyfire

Erwos

Say what you will about the US military procurement process, but it has produced some phenomenal successes over the years. The US military is willing to pay to get the best, and so they do.

Erwos

uberfu

pferde_schwanz

GiltProto

"The F-35 is being designed to be the world's premier strike aircraft through 2040. It is intended that its air-to-air capability will be second only to that of the F-22 Raptor."

So only in air-to-air combat the F-22 is better.

Jesus Diaz

*on a side note, I just watched The Starfighters on MST3K.....NERD ALERT!

MJDeviant

Hyruu

I would be very sad if the plane didn't fly well.

liquidsoapdispenser

On a side note some models of the F-35 can to VTOL and they accomplish this by opening large doors and turning the jet engine towards the ground, which is why I thought it should have been named Starscream not Ligthening 2, it's the first transformer plane.

Jesse Mrozowski

Canoehead

We expect wars to be lopsided and sterile. Americans cant get hurt anymore. So the movement is to make the shit so advanced that the other guy doesnt even have a chance (hence the move to UAVs whenever possible).

So that is the idea, this plane will likely only get used in small combat situations like Africa or the Middle East but its impressive abilities will mean we will likely not lose a pilot. Just look at how the first gulf war went.

archercc

Seconded. And the news that it flies well with other planes is very encouraging.

DeepFriar

The F-22 Raptor is more of a Strike Fighter that replaced the F-15 Eagle and the F-14 Tomcat_

The F-35 [just because it has a bigger number doesn't mean it's the better of the 2] replaces both the Hawker Harrier Jump Jet [AV-8A/B] and the F-16 Falcon_ All the number signifies is that it's the next in the line of succession of fighter aircraft_

uberfu

Geisrud

"And the handling, particularly with the gear up, was phenomenal."

I get that compliment all the time...

frigg

Besides, when we go to war we don't want to just "beat" the other guy, we want to humiliate them into abject submission for the next thousand years and what better way to do that than take out his entire air force with three jets?

dicknervous

wizardofpants

pferde_schwanz

Really I think the Military is run by a bunch of gadget nerds. If this had more chrome, a touch screen, and an apple logo the line ups for this bad boy would go around the block.

Apples new product. The iAnnihilate.

TheCyberBob

HJTravels

But this and the F22 really don't compare, they aren't made for the same purpose.

At least I don't think so...

Petrogk

They'll probably all be replaced with UAV fighters long before 2040 anyway...

tamoko

"Hi, yes - uh, I'd like to change my order. I ordered my F-22 yesterday, but today on your website I see that you already have a better version... can I upgrade my order, or is it too late?"

Reminds me of my dad when he orders his new laptop every two years, lol.

Stang70Fastback

jw

FuzzysFriedChicken

America can still build really great planes - but the process, a mix of politics and contractor pandering for "absolute fairness" means that it takes way too long and costs way too much to develop new planes.

Canoehead

Then again, that $40 billion kept all of Lockheed Martins employees in jobs, which in turn kept the economy of their region going.

But really? Did we need it?

jetexas

Kaiser-Machead's WALL-E fetish