<![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees - Gizmodo Comments]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees - Gizmodo Comments]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> I think the best be in the long run is matter antimatter annihilation. Think about it a pure conversion of matter to energy (think E=mc2) its an amazing concept sure it might be a little farfetched now but think about 30 years into the future antimatter and we have found natural sources of antimatter in the universe granted there comets but still, we can make antimatter easy all it takes is an electromagnetic field and an atomic accelerator. Just as a little tidbit of info: In April 2002, Norm Hansen announced the discovery that comets are composed of antimatter to the joint meeting of American Physical Society and American Astronomical Society. When antimatter enters our solar system, it is called comets. The comet's plasma coma and tails are created by the solar wind and dust particles blasting antimatter fragments, dust and ions off the comet's surface. On July 23, 2002, a sungrazer comet collided with the sun and released enough energy to supply the world's energy needs for 10,000 years. Light and x-rays are produced from matter-antimatter annihilation taking place on the comet's surface and in the plasma coma and tails. Far out in my opinion. Other than that I like the idea of the welfare bikes.

jaramiewright

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Oh, a few more thoughts -

Electric cars don't like as cold environments as fuel cells currently do. They've reduced the loss of hydrogen conversion in fuel cells. They've also found a way to generate hydrogen from bacteria instead of just using electricity.

Which eliminates the use of fossil fuels to create the hydrogen for the fuel cell vehicles. While the electric cars will still need to use polluting grid power.

The other big kicker is charge time - a fuel cell powered vehicle can refuel a lot quicker currently than a battery powered one. If I'm out driving that's going to be a major issue.

But again... I still think that biodiesels are a good stop gap before we are really ready for electric vehicles. Regardless of their power source.

Nyle

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Uhm, I'm just flabbergasted by your reply. Fuel Cell powered vehicles will only require one battery to power your radio and normal vehicle appliances when the "engine"(fuel cell) is off. The fuel cell feeds electricity to the motor. The battery in this case is the hydrogen stored in a fuel tank. [en.wikipedia.org]

The current batteries in electric cars are not biodegradable.

Currently, NiMH seems to be the most commonly used battery technology deployed in modern electric cars. LiON is coming into swing. Yes, they are recyclable, assuming they are. Just like assuming all those mercury filled compact flourescents being shoved down everyones thoughts are too. Guess what, they aren't.

But you miss the main point of my post - electric cars, whether they use batteries as a storage source or hydrogen are not the current/mid-term answer to our energy independence. Renewable bio sources are - algae is the best that I've read about so far. Currently, most of the electricity that you'd use to either charge the battery or generate the hydrogen would come from sources that would pollute just as much if not more than a biodisel. If we can even produce enough, you do realize that our old electric grid is at capacity? How'd you like a blackout to keep you from going to work?

In the long run, I'm sure that scientists will continue to advance solar, wind, wave, etc. electric generation and update our grid or stored energy delivery method.

In the current/mid-term it will be far easier for us to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil by looking to biofuels and near zero emission diesel engines.

Nyle

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @Nyle:

Your wrong about Batteries.

Yes old batteries are bad for the environment. But we have new batteries that are Bio-degradable and/or recyclable.

Hydrogen is a stupid electricity wasting fuel source. Any logical thinking person would realize that Electric cars are the best way to go.

And how does Hydrogen eliminate Batteries? Where is the electricity going to be stored that powers all the electronics in your car? A BATTERY! Duh..

Current generation electric car's use Bio-degradable batteries.

Kakkoister

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @cyborgtroy - "...and we're trying to make hydrogen, even though it's way worse economically, still made from oil, way less efficient than electric, and it's not ready for production at all."

Uhm, the last I checked Hydrogen could be extracted through the process of electrolysis with water. So, you could take any clean source of electricity and water to make hydrogen. The end byproduct of using in a fuel cell is hot air, pure water and electricity. With solar, wind, wave, nuclear and hydro electric plants hydrogen is a good distribution medium for the auto industry and eliminates batteries from electric cars which are still bad for the environment.

Biodiesel while cleaner than conventional diesel isn't as clean as gasoline currently is. It is getting better though. It offers us a ready alternative to extend the use of existing oil stocks with a renewable resource that ultimately could replace oil stocks altogether.

However, while you seem to embrace the electricity, you ignore that most electricity in this country is made via the same polluting systems that you want to eliminate. Fuel cells do nothing to add to this problem - they simply allow for a much more portable power source than battery based eletrics do.

The bottom line, IMNSHO, is that all of this research into renewable energy is a valuable investment in our future. Algae if you read about it on other sites really seems to offer a great stop gap meassure that will carry us over from traditional fosil fuel use to an era when we can cleanly generate enough electricity to meet our needs without fosil/biodiesel at all. For that matter what if soemone tommorow invents a zero emision diesel engine. Why wouldn't we take the roughly 40,000 acres of non-farmland necessary for algae farms to product enough diesel to power the entire US yearly?

An 1,100 acres of algae farm generates 4.4 million gallons of biodiesel a year plus the pressings can be used to feed cattle or be fermented into clean burning ethanol. 146 billion gallons of gas a year divided by 4.4 million * 1100 acres should give a rough idea of the number of acres needed. (Assuming even that 1 gallon of biodisel gives the same fuel economy at 1 gallon of regular gas.) These calculations are quick but seem correct if the estimates of yearly consumption from 2 sources are correct.

Nyle

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @richard8a: Read the article...this is the kind of thinking we need. The only thing that scares me is concentrating all of our energy producing facilities in one area of the country like that. What if there is some natural disaster...flood, earthquake or heaven forbid, enemy attack? Instead of our power production being spread out across a huge nation and hard to knock completely out, it could be shut down pretty quickly. I don't like having all the eggs in one basket like that.

NationalGrantham

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Another thing - once you tap the tree for th oil - is it spent and dead and you have to start over or does the tree live and and replenish itself? Kinda Maple Syrup style?

uberfu

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @MadModderX: i understand about hydroelectricity and dams, but isn't the point of hydro power from the ocean a means of harnessing the tide rather than depending on a dam spillway turning generators? you can't dam the ocean, but u can build walls w/ generators in them, and tide can be a very powerful and constant force generated by the moon. and, i believe alot of the power of the netherlands comes from tidal power. although i could be mistaken

skyln95

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @wkm001:

Of course it's not made by magic.. But you have to realize Electricity is the ultimate resource.

Yes currently the majority of electricity produced in USA is from production plants that use oil/coal and whatnot.

But it's slowly moving towards freely generated electricity. Such as wind/hydroelectric/solar powered. These are never ending resources. (Unless the sun dies and/or our planet runs out of a lot of it's water.)

Electricity is the best choice until we can efficiently use the energy that is produced from materials such as Tritium.

(Tritium is currently used in some space probes to power minor electronics since Tritium's power last's roughly 10 years. But only a very small percent of it's power is utilized with current technology.)

Also, Hydrogen powered vehicles are the stupidest thing in the world... Yes let's use Electricity to create hydrogen gas to power a vehicle... Instead of just using the Damn electricity to power the vehicle.

Kakkoister

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> It is my understanding that the way the fuel is gotten from these trees is by harvesting nuts that the tree produces and not by tapping the tree as in the case of Maple trees.

Linux_all_the_way

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> How many people would it take to tap 18 BILLION trees each year?

Ralph48

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> However the numbers work out, there is one thing to remember about corn. Making fuel out of it is great, but that's less room for growing food, whether it's for us for for the cattle we depend on. The land has to come from somewhere.
This has already seen an increase in food for cattle going up, because the corn they would otherwise eat is being squeezed into fuel. The husks and remainders are poor for making fuel, and also poor for feeding to livestock.
The real solution is developing technology for getting the oil out of the ground in Canada. They have more oil than Saudi Arabia, but it's packed in sand and not just the kind that squirts out of the ground. How about some contest for extracting it from their land instead of the X prize for going into space, which short term isn't going to help much.

Of course in the USA, it all boils down to getting the money out of politics and into the hands of voters. The problem is the politicians are in a spending arms race for their positions so they are more hooked on money than a crack addict. Maybe after Bush has been in office we'll take a look at how to fix our situation, since this has been the biggest ripoff of taxpayer money with the war and the lining of the oil companies pockets with their record profits.

Hello_Newman

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @kevininstereo: As a counterpoint because we just learned this in class. Hydro electricity is not always reliable. As you said 70% of the world is covered in water, how much of it is usable? A very large portion is in the ocean, it's pretty hard to damn that off. On top of that damns aren't foolproof renewable energy generators. What about droughts or too much rain causing structural failure? Dessert areas would get the really short end of the stick. hydro electricity also contributes a very small piece of the overall power usage, In fact 98% of our dams don't produce electricity.
Norway is another story. America has the second most number of damns and the hardly produce enough to give back a sizable enough chunk of power. Norway has significantly less land and plenty more sources for hydroelectricity, hence their ability to power themselves almost entirely on Hydroelectricity.
Renewable resources are really amazing, but they are not without their disadvantages and cannot be completely relied upon.

MadModderX

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @SigmundTheSeaMonster: Sweet idea.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like it! It will save loads on healthcare as well as helping people contribute to society.

reckless_inoz

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> I'd tap that.

jbhitter24

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @scorpeus: I knew a man who was one of the original designers of the Magnox reactors in the UK in the 1950s. He basically scared the out of me by explaining why the Magnox was the world's safest reactor, ever. He talked me through the safety features, that they don't have those safety features any more, and then said that even with all the safety features he and his colleagues built in to it, the Windscale reactor still went pear-shaped. I've never trusted nuclear power ever since...

lunarship

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @SigmundTheSeaMonster: Sold! Help with energy and make the free-loaders actually work! If they won't actually go out and get a job, we'll give them one!

On the note of electricity, here is a very interesting article about someone's take on a Solar Grand Plan, it was run in Scientific American magazine only a few months ago: [www.sciam.com]

There are some very interesting, feasible ideas out there, we just need to jump on it! I think solar is the way to go, and if you don't quite agree, at least skim that article.

richard8a

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @Klappstuhl: What you fail to recognize is that plug in electric cars are powered by mostly fossil fuels. Take the US for example, more than 75% of our power comes from coal which is, you guess it - a fossil fuel.

R2B2

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> How bout taking the genes from the tree that tell it how to produce the fuel and transplanting them into bacteria? That way the whole thing could be done in vats.

Gary_7vn

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @rraszews: Depends on how it is tapped. If we can tweak it right... filtered shower water. Of course, I have a feeling it won't be too good for our skin. I was thinking maybe some other tree, like a pine or something. Maybe just to be silly, a bonsai.

Ghede

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Soylent jet fuel. My dream will one day become reality.

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Could I ask a question .HOW come we arent trying to make nuclear power plant that uses spent fuel rodsa? They are stil lradio active right? And still give off heat so why not use them to create more power?

majortom1981

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @macserve: How about we leave the wasteful "fool cell" out of the equation. The process of converting electricity to hydrogen to electricity will merely wast 75% of your energy you started with. If it's an electric car, you charge it with electricity generated from whatever source. We already have an infrastructure to deliver electricity to every house in the nation, why would you add the complexity and waste of Hydrogen?
The fuel rod issue is from old 2nd and 3rd generation nuclear reactors. Newer designs create less radioactive waste by more completely utilizing the radioactive materials used a fuel source. We haven't built a new nuclear reactor in over 25 years. It's time we started updating (and catching up with Europe!) our nuclear power. Newer generation nuclear plants can be built faster and cheaper than our old plants, and they are safer too. Wind and solar are nice renewable sources, but they take large quantities to compete with output levels you get from nuclear plants. Nuclear has a bad rap in the US, because all we have is old outdated stuff. Time to mondernize!!!

Scorpeus

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Comment on Gasoline Grows On Trees Via wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copaifera_langsdorfii): "Despite its vigorous production of oil the tree does not grow well outside of the tropics and does not show promise as a reliable source of biodiesel. Oh well. Tim

BrantMaravilla

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @Klappstuhl: Definitely.

*sweeps this article under the rug because bullshit domestic production of fuel is expensive, still produces pollution, and is a total waste of time*

Seriously, we have the tech for electric cars, but instead of marketing it and making it cheap enough to replace almost all of the consumer vehicles, we're looking for solution to the oil shortage, and we're trying to make hydrogen, even though it's way worse economically, still made from oil, way less efficient than electric, and it's not ready for production at all.

cyborgtroy

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> I wonder if we could simply add preservatives to the "tree diesel"... after all, if Twinkies can last for months, why not this? It's not like we're even going to eat this, so we should be able to use harsher stuff than the food additives...

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Electric cars are the future, fossil fuel is no option anymore.

Klappstuhl

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @chumpzilla: Pretty crappy. However, the car exists. Lotus helped with the Tesla

+ Watch video

and the Zap-x (made by :


+ Watch video

Regardless of who sales these cars, Lotus is on the right track.

kevininstereo

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Oh, and I guess they do have those "extremophile" Microbes (they're the best) that can thrive in highly radioactive environments, eating the toxic materials, and excreting inert ones... but God only knows how far along that really is.

macserv

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Nuclear Energy still has permanent consequences in the form of spent fuel rods, but I'm not suggesting that it's a permanent solution. Hopefully, 20-25 years is enough time to get our photovoltaics to where a solar plant can occupy the same area as a coal plant, and generate more power (nighttime, and all).

The nuclear waste generated during that period would likely be easily contained and disposed of (spent fuel rods don't come pouring out of reactors every week). Then, as soon as we can, we replace it with solar, and start harnessing the power of our star. A few decades later, maybe we'll be able to harness the power of as many tiny stars as we care to create.

Nuclear now, solar soon, fusion finally.

macserv

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Isn't nuclear energy supposedly clean energy now? I know it used to kill nature like a ninja but I think the tech has evolved. Anyone know for sure?

Digo

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @ macserv

Solar energy IS nuclear energy.

The Sun is a gigantic atom smashing machine... gigantic nuclear furnace.

Fusion energy IS nuclear energy. The Sun is fusion reactor.

*****************************
Electric power from Solar/Wind / wave/ Hydro electric and Nuclear Fission and Fusion can be used to provide energy
to the Grid for Electric High speed (TGV) trains, Trolley/Streetcars, Trolley buses, and battery vehicles.

Hydrogen produced by cracking sea water can be combined with biomass carbon ( recycled CO2 ) via the Fischer-Tropsch process to make sythetic Hydrocarbon fuels.
These fuels could be used in Jet planes and Ships.

Ethanol depends and lots of variables. Like the choice of feedstock and the method of agriculture. Cows and Chickens should not be eating grains like corn. Cows should graze grass and chickens can eat the maggots in cow dung, which would grow into flies and harrass the cows and people.

Algae can be used for Bio-diesel, Bio-jet, and the carbohydrates for ethanol.

Carbon capture should be used for all Coal oil and Gas.

MRP123

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @Posavoie: I'm a fan of biodiesel from algae as well. Here's a few great links for those that are interested:

[www.unh.edu]
[en.wikipedia.org]

Basically, if all of our vehicles in this country were diesel vehicles it would only take an area about the size of Maryland to meet all of our own fuels needs. Also of note is that all of this could take place in deserts with saltwater being pumped in from the ocean.

R2B2

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @sned: Agreed. Electric vehicle, energized by a fuel-cell powerplant, fueled by hydrogen electrolyzed from water using...

2010:
     ... nuclear energy.
2030:
     ... solar energy.
2060:
     ... fusion energy.

macserv

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Why do so many users shout electric. Most electricity in the US is made from OIL/Carbon based fuels. It's only moving the problem to someone else's hands. Fuel cells and other local electric sources can be an option but way too expensive and not yet efficient enough to give a positive energy sum. It simply takes too much energy while converting from the source to electricity.

Trees are an interesting answer if these are anything like normal maples that drip sap on my car. Tap them like a maple tree for syrup and filler up.

djrogi

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @yogibimbi: then why couldn't we refine both? whatever fuel can't be refined through corn, refine through sugar. sugar is grown domestically and imported. but, i guess that's too simple for a government.

skyln95

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @leeks: Researchers are trying to get
bacteria directly make hydrogen gas, which would be alot greener than diesel.
They already have bacteria that make methane, which are used in garbage dumps and waste management facilites -- but these bacteria still don't make much fuel, unfortunetly

poorGeek

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Hey, Mr. Giz, where you gonna get your hydrogen for your Jetson-mobile? Hydrogen isn't a power source. HYDROGEN ISN'T A POWER SOURCE. You may know that already, but I just like to say it because people say "hydrogen" and they wet themselves. I get sick of it. Really all they hydrogen hype a few years ago was just a joke to keep W's oil buddy's from losing any money.

To get hydrogen, you have to break it out of water or a hydrocarbon (e.g. natural gas). Or you can take a bussard collector and trawl around billions of miles of interstellar space. Both solutions consume more energy than the hydrogen can give you.

Compare hydrogen to other power sources:

*Hydrogen*
How to get it: break off water or hydrocarbon
Energy used to get it: more than is delivered to end user.

*Oil*
How to get it: pump it out of ground, refine it, ship it.
Energy used to get it: less than is delivered to end user (or you probably won't make money).

*Solar*
How to get it: build thermal plant, ship it (power lines).
Energy used to get it: less than is delivered to end user.

*Wind*
How to get it: build turbine, ship it (power lines).
Energy used to get it: less than is delivered to end user.

*Ethanol*
How to get it: plant it, cultivate it, refine it.
Energy used to get it: less than is delivered to end user (unless you are getting gov't subsidies so you don't have to break even).

See the pattern?

anderlan

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @skyln95: ethanol is ethanol

yogibimbi

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @lailoken:
Excellent point, I've seen conflicting figures though. I'm going to go with the DOE on this one where they state that a barrel of crude oil yields 23% diesel fuel and heating oil (they are basically the same) by volume.

[tonto.eia.doe.gov]

A 42 Gal. barrel of crude yields 44 Gallons of refined products. Of which approximately 10.12 Gallons is diesel fuel.

Therefore to equal the diesel fuel output of Saudi Arabia, the United States would need to allocate ~42 million acres of land. Less then is presently allocated for corn production (according to Giz).

pushlatency

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @Ghede: And if we could implant those genes in human beings, it would give the whole notion of "Blood for Oil" a new meaning.

A Modest Proposal, anyone>

rraszews

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @snowtires:

Maybe it's just me, but I think oxygen is extremely more important in the grand scheme of things than diesel fuel. Cutting down that many trees to provide fuel is going to have catastrophic results in the short/long term.

You missed the point here: these trees can be tapped like Maple trees for the sap that is produced by the tree. Cutting not required and it's completely renewable as the tree will simply produce more sap the next season.

The big bonus of course is that it's almost a perfect cycle in that the trees continue to live and consume atmospheric carbon as they grow.

On another note, I'm not sure what chemical and bio-mechanical processes are required to produce this diesel, but perhaps it may even be possible to isolate the genes responsible and create genetically engineered, fast growing algae which could be harvested for the diesel.

charliedigital

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> One thing to keep in mind is genetic engineering or selective breeding of these trees could possibly dramatically increase yield over time (much like how selective breeding has been used to cultivate fruit trees that have the highest yield or cows that produce prodigious amounts of milk).

It's definitely an interesting concept.

charliedigital

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Comment on Gasoline Grows On Trees Your math is flawed! I know you threw this disclaimer in there *It should be noted that oil barrels and diesel barrels are not a precise 1:1 ratio. ...but it shouldn't be this far off...... Saudi Oil Per Day - you said 11,000,000 barrels / day = 4,015,000,000 barrels / year Oil per acre of trees = you said 25 barrels per year. If you had 182,500,000 acres, it would produce 4,562,500,000 This being said, the trees would produce 1/2 a billion more barrels per year than Saudia Arabia- so you in other words, you would only need 160,600,000 acres, or 22 million less acres than you had stated. Nebraska kinda sucks anyways, and it has about 50 million acres and Iowa is about 36 million acres and North Dakota is another 45 million = Energy "crisis" solved - we all just need diesel cars : / This message contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee), you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received the message in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message.

QuentinJalopy

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> gotta love brasil =D

vinchbr

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> How many trees per acre? Maybe instead of putting our poor on bikes, we could have them tending our diesel farms? It sounds like a fairly labor intensive proposition. I like the genetic angle. Find the gene and put it in yeast and feed the yeast just about anything organic.

Ethanol's bad, mkay?

GadgetPlay

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @ackthbbft: I wanted to fuel my car with hemp, but it just kept getting all munchy and everything... couldn't drive past a McDonald's or a 7-eleven, and Dunkin Donuts? fugetaboutit. And it kept forgetting where it was parked.

ps61318

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @DustyButt: I always thought Reagan just wanted more room for additional Stinger emplacements. Not that he had reason to be worried, or anything....

ps61318

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> What about that Air Car in France? What's wrong with that? Or, what about Propane Gas powered cars?

apeguero

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @suburbancowboy: Hemp FTW!! Fuel, paper, clothing... it's just way too useful a plant to ban. Get rid of all the tobacco farms and replace them with industrial hemp, I say. The absurdly low amount of what makes marijuana illegal found in hemp does not make it even remotely viable as a drug-producing plant.

40% of the logging industry's income is from cutting trees which do not pass building-grade lumber standards, and then get turned to paper instead. That is the real reason why hemp was banned, because they want to continue raping the planet by cutting down trees they can't use for any legitimate reason other than that 40%.

ackthbbft

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> the answer is:

we are fucked.

MrBlahBlah

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @kevininstereo: you obviously haven't read Wired's article on Zap:

[www.wired.com]

That Zap X car is never going to happen...

chumpzilla

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> what carbon offsets? You could import oil from mars, if you still burn it, it's putting carbon in the air. The only thing you are offsetting is the sulfur. since biodiesel has a low to no sulfur content unlike most natural diesel. but i could always be wrong.

jkr

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> It's worth remembering that it takes 7 gallons of crude to create 1 gallon of diesel. So all the number need to effectivly cut down by a factor of 7. Does seem a lot more feasible, non?

lailoken

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> THIS looks like the best option. Of course, these days, you can make a fortune identifying the sets of genes that enable DIESEL to be produced. Forget bioluminescence.

Ghede

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Hemp still looks like the best option, but the U.S. wants to keep it illegal.

suburbancowboy

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @snowtires: You don't cut down the trees to get the fuel, you tap them (or "bung" them, in the parlance of our times). They don't kill trees to make syrup, you know.

Wilson Rothman

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Curious what percentage of vehicle using gasoline couldn't use this bio-diesel? And how expensive/feasible a conversion kit would be for those vehicles.

As for ethanol, it uses more than a gallon of oil to produce a gallon of corn ethanol, is not nearly as efficient. Plus figure in the subsidies and the rising prices of using corn for fuel instead of food...Ethanol is just bad in every way.

Geisrud

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Maybe it's just me, but I think oxygen is extremely more important in the grand scheme of things than diesel fuel. Cutting down that many trees to provide fuel is going to have catastrophic results in the short/long term.

snowtires

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @Arelar: Yeah, but the shipping costs are Out Of This World...

ideaman2020

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> What ever happened to putting giant solar panels in orbit?

reddingofish

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @phantam: I'd be interested to see what sort of nutrient depletion you would see with that.

valarmorghulis

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Surely we should be looking for more nature-friendly fuels, not looking for ways to make more diesel.

Collins1

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Here's my take:

We probably shouldn't go the biofuel route (corn, trees or plants) as it will take up more area in relation as our energy use increases.

I would propose Hydroelectricity replacing our current powerplants, in-turn charging electric cars.

The highest percentage of all alternative energy sources belongs to Hydro Electricity (60% of all alt.energy Source= [www.ren21.net]), so it's not really a secret how well it works. Also 70% of the earth is covered in water, and we barely use it.

99% of Norway electricity comes from Hydroelectricity. Any electric car used in Norway is free of emissions, all the way down to it's powerplant.

We're about to have electric cars that can take on typical petrol fueled cars:
Lotus' ZapX, 350mile range, top spead of 155mph, takes $3.50 to charge up the car at the house. It's $60k.
It uses Altairnano Safe batteries with cyclelife of 20,000 deepcharges. With a special charging station it will charge in 10min.. otherwise it's 30min.
[www.zapworld.com]

Also checkout the Tesla
[www.teslamotors.com]

kevininstereo

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> cant they genetically alter the plants to grow faster, say ... 10x faster :) then we can grow em chop em and replant ... tada

phantam

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Hell, ethanol is not a very good solution. It's causing corn prices to go up which is increasing the prices of milk, eggs, and other groceries. We should start using cane sugar like Brazil does.

myasir

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> I'd hate to see the guy with the Ferrari who doesn't drive his car for 6 months using this fuel. Smoke... fun!

Grifter

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @MaWeiTao: So, you're saying that Regan thought it was a better idea (and more cost effective) to disassemble and remove the solar panels, and patch the roof... as opposed to just repairing the roof and getting free energy. Hmmm.

DustyButt

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @sned:
And as we all know, electricity is made by magic and gets to our house the same way.
We need to advance the development of batteries. That is the key!

wkm001

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> oh oh... seens to me that Brazil will get invaded, like that bullshit that happens in Iraq. No problem, as long Bush still remembers that the capital of Brazil is Buenos Aires.

fernando_maciel

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @mhlaxp: Those solar panels weren't taken down by Regan on a whim. They were removed because of various issues including leaking on the roof.

The biggest irony of all, for some people anyway, is that the Bush, the current one, has had three sets of solar panels installed.

On another note, gasoline from trees is a cool idea, but I suspect like nearly all of these alternative energy sources it wont work as well as advertised. Not that they shouldn't be working on it, because anything that can alleviate the current demand on oil is a good thing.

MaWeiTao

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> and what about sugar ethanol? isn't that what brazil uses? we have land in the u.s. that can grow sugar. also plenty of it imported since bush just about put u.s. sugar farmers practically out of business for it. can sugar and corn ethanol be combined?

skyln95

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Virgin and Google are going to transform mars into an oil-tree-growing planet. I'm there

Arelar

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Oh, and nobody called dibs on DIESEL TREES for a band name.

Dibs!

DustyButt

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @SigmundTheSeaMonster: Wow, you make me want to go on welfare. You can keep in shape, help the environment and get paid.

TheGuinnessTooth

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @SigmundTheSeaMonster: Hey, fossil fuel free is fossil fuel free... It's a start!

DustyButt

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> At the very least we can plant these trees in our yards and use them to power our homes...

GameGorilla

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> I've know this for a LONG time. Duh, Giz.

Claystil

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> damn, tap that tree quick...screw Saudi Arabia...we don't need their oil bad enough to miss out on this opportunity.

Seiven

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @SigmundTheSeaMonster: Damn. Now that's an idea I could get on board with. Give that man a fishstick!

GoPadge

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> How about algae?
I saw this yesterday on CNN... they were saying "Kertz said he can produce about 100,000 gallons of algae oil a year per acre, compared to about 30 gallons per acre from corn; 50 gallons from soybeans."*. So you do a whole lot better than we are currently doing with Corn and poor Mexicans would be able to afford their food. Ok, this is not the complete solution but it's a far better start than Ethanol and most forms of getting bio-diesel. If you can convert acres of land used for corn to algae oil production you would get 950,000,000,000 gallons of oil that can be used as bio diesel every year! And anyone who'se grown up near a lake can tell you algae reproduces like crazy. Now, there's bound to be problems with this solution but think about the problems we had to overcome just to use fossil fuels, all we need is a little motivation (like, say, if we paid as much for gas as the europeans do).

*[www.cnn.com]

Posavoie

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Great idea. Then vehicle fuel can be as outrageously expensive as real maple syrup. $10 dollars a pint for the hi-grade stuff.

Also if that's a rain forest tree you probably can't plant it where it gets too cold or frosty.

GiltProto

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> We need to look at alternatives to fuel not plants that can create it. But hell if the plants can really do that we should start planting them now!

VTFootballGrad

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> 182.5 million acres of diesel trees would make for one hell of a forest fire.

Munch the BanNail

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> I got a better idea: Give everyone on welfare a cycle-generator that is hooked to the grid. They are to ride for atleast 2 hours a day (5 days/week). If they don't contribute 10hrs/week, they don't get a check. If they contribute more, they get a bonus.

Earn your free ride! Save the trees!

SigmundTheSeaMonster

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> I've got an idea...

How 'bout we make an honest attempt to get our lips off of the ol' Oil Pipe before Foreign Oil decides to serve up the "money shot".

DustyButt

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Two real challenges with the numbers:
1. It compares fuel output with oil output.
2. Comparing one acre of this stuff to all of Saudi Arabia causes the whole post to come across as sarcasm. How does the output compare to that of corn-based ethanol and other biofuels?

badco/LoJ

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @bpatten - I'd say by the fact that the article says that the trees last for 90 seasons that they extract the oil without killing the tree. Perhaps, like Maple Syrup.

Yes, It doesn't explicitly say that but for the trees to last 90 seasons - they'd have to not die.

My question is - what climate zones will these trees grow in and how many I need for my car to run on? I'll buy a few acres of land if that's enough for my car. 8^)

-Nyle

Nyle

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> On the plus side, it can be "tapped" so the tree does not die.

On the minus side, it has not been successfully transplanted to grow outside of its native tropical region.

...so do we cut down 200,000,000 acres of rainforest in order to keep running diesel-based vehicles?

steven522

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @sned: Generated how?

CSX321

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @bpatten: We used the verb "tapped." Just like you get syrup, it can be retapped over the years.

Mark Wilson

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> It might be possible (if these tree cells could be 'grown' in a huge facility. So instead of acres of land, think, miniaturized cells producing the oil, without the need to replant / plant new trees. A multistorey cell line in a say 250 hectare facility that would function like a 'powerplant'. Such facility would be quite costly though. But its a way to go when you really have nothiing left.

leeks

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @sned: And where do you plan on getting that electricity? Fossil fuels, because hydro, nuclear, solar, and wind power are to underdeveloped/unsafe to be depended on for a while yet.

smartboydan hates college

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @mhlaxp: That's because Jimmy Carter = Epic Win
Sorry, I'm from Georgia :D

smartboydan hates college

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Electric is the answer.

sned

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> From my non-expert reading, it looks at least interesting enough that we should be trying it. Any idea that could possibly change our fuel crisis into a renewable resource is worth whatever resources we can toss at it to see if it can work, and this looks like a good candidate.

Monty

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> What i want to know (and the article doesn't say) is how they extract the fuel from the tree. Does the tree have to be cut down or does it live through the process? How efficient is the extraction process?

That's really the deal breaker. If i have to have some big diesel powered fleet of machinery to harvest my diesel, then the efficiency of that fleet pretty much determines how efficient this whole plan is.

bpatten

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> and corn produces something like 15% more energy than whats put into the process. It's not even close to being the best biofuel. We should be looking toward vertigro or cellulose based production.

Darrone

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Why can't we go straight to atomic powered flying carpets?

junyo

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> Certainly the trees can be genetically modified to produce more oil. But, that's still a lot of freakin' trees, man!!!

xint

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> @seym0ur caKe: If memory serves Jimmy Carter, who introduced the nation to ethanol, had some corn growing somewhere around the White House. He also put solar panels on the roof, but Reagan took them down.

mhlaxp

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> But how many barrel's worth of fuel does the 15% of the corn spent on ethanol add up to?

Subterfuge

]]> <![CDATA[Gasoline Grows On Trees]]> We can start by planting some of those trees where the White House stands, they will make better use of the space...

seym0ur caKe

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