qB

Maybe. You'll have to ask Him or Her or It. Wow, that was heavy man, did you think that up all by yourself?

GadgetPlay

johnnyabnormal

I agree with you there, but usually, the problem is with the people, and not the religion, as you stated in the next paragraph.

"I have read your posts, and honestly, I am not sure if you are or not."

I like to keep'em guessing. I understand the arguments on both sides, and have not seen any real evidence one way or the other. It bugs me a little when someone on either side thinks that the "opposition" is stupid, evil, or otherwise maladjusted. I was being absolutely truthful when I said I would object to that sort of argument on either side.

"And finally, the apparent death of this Priest forces me to ask where was his god that day?"

Assuming His existence, He was probably laughing His omnipotent ass off. What a moron!

GadgetPlay

I do have a problem with religion because some people use it as license to kill. Religion is a big part of the current war on terror. In many ways it is Christians vs Muslims, vs Jews. This is sad.

Having said that though, a deeper analysis would conclude that we kill each other because of our nature.

And finally, the apparent death of this Priest forces me to ask where was his god that day? CS Lewis lost his faith over this issue, he called it, "the problem of pain". Of course he got back in the car later and died a believer. He claimed to have solved the problem of pain, saying that G_d makes us suffer so we can grow. I suppose... you'd think he could just download some driver updates or something though...

Gary_7vn

Ralph48

Requiring those who disbelieve a claim to bear the same burden of proof as those making the claim is a form of dishonest reasoning.

Candyman

johnnyabnormal

Curves

johnnyabnormal

GadgetPlay

"This in no way constitutes evidence for the lack of a God."

I never said it did. I'm illustrating a lack of credibility of those saying God exists. HUGE difference. My "nitpicking" is hard evidence of the absurdity of religion's fiction. To deny such is to be blind to all reason.

"I do not believe that anyone on this site has said anything disrespectful of atheists."

Hmmm, including calling me "smug" in your next line? Speaking of which:

"The point is not that you must prove something, it's that you can't but have the smug superiority of someone who can."

Ok, you win. The world was created in 6 days. Evolution is a joke created by the devil. Fossils were the punch line. Virgin birth really happens and Jesus could tap his feet and be magical by lacking half the chromosomes of other people. Would his genetic condition qualify him for the diagnosis of severe mental retardation?

Regarding being smug: Oh, yes I can. The fact that it's considered rude or taboo to question the validity of any thought system is just another safeguard that the religious have pounded into society to escape public criticism. If I condescend to you because you don't believe in gravity, then I'd be more worried about your lack of observation than the smug nature of my remarks.

"I have to conclude that as you have offered no evidence after this much cajoling, that you indeed have none."

Said the blind man to the painter...

johnnyabnormal

I covered this. This in no way constitutes evidence for the lack of a God. Again you are nitpicking one particular brand of belief, and with no evidence to boot.

"But you have failed to admit that "you and yours" are angry and fail to respect Atheists as well...I mean, if you want to make sweeping generalizations."

I do not believe that anyone on this site has said anything disrespectful of atheists. Nor has there been the slightest bit of anger from me or the God Squad (should they indeed exist).

"False. You still believe Atheists must prove something, when in fact they have no fairy tales to prove as fact."

The point is not that you must prove something, it's that you can't but have the smug superiority of someone who can.

"Hardly. You want to see hallucinatory science? Visit the creationist museum sometime:"

You're not getting it. It's not science that's hallucinatory/illusionary, it's the idea that science in any way contradicts (or confirms) the existence of a God. I have to conclude that as you have offered no evidence after this much cajoling, that you indeed have none. To admit this should not be that difficult, it does not make you right or wrong.

GadgetPlay

False. I never said "none" and I easily listed many things that religion has paraded as fact, which is fiction.

"I have made no assertions of the existence of a God"

Never said you did.

"and nothing I have said is illogical."

False. You still believe Atheists must prove something, when in fact they have no fairy tales to prove as fact.

"Nitpicking at some ancient mythology does not back up your argument."

Absolutely false. Religion IS ancient mythology, perverted throughout the ages and taught as truth. Listing the absurdities of which make my point very clearly.

"At least you have admitted that you and yours are angry and do not respect those who debate the other side of the argument."

But you have failed to admit that "you and yours" are angry and fail to respect Atheists as well...I mean, if you want to make sweeping generalizations.

"I did not say that science was an illusion, but to say that science in any way backs your side of the debate is very illusory, or perhaps a better word is hallucinatory."

Hardly. You want to see hallucinatory science? Visit the creationist museum sometime:

+ Watch video

johnnyabnormal

In one post you say the atheists have loads of proof and in another you admit that there is none. I have made no assertions of the existence of a God, and nothing I have said is illogical. Distasteful to you perhaps, but not illogical. Nitpicking at some ancient mythology does not back up your argument. At least you have admitted that you and yours are angry and do not respect those who debate the other side of the argument. That's really all I said to start with.

I did not say that science was an illusion, but to say that science in any way backs your side of the debate is very illusory, or perhaps a better word is hallucinatory.

GadgetPlay

"Intellectually dishonest"? Prove it. I believe you are being fundamentally illogical. There is not a single thing which I have said on this thread which cannot be proven. When I said:

"Actually, the Atheists have loads of proof, since the reality they live in requires it. The burden of proof is upon those who cannot prove their fairy tales..."

This is a fact. You seem to be responding as if I said, "I can prove God doesn't exist", which would be false. I can prove that the chances of his existence are about as probable as the existence of the East Bunny or Santa Claus. Again, for the millionth time, the burden of proof is upon those who claim something exists for which there is no supporting evidence of such existence.

Regarding the "proof" or "facts": What would I be referring to?

- Human virgin birth
- Rising from the dead after decomposing.
- Creating loaves of bread without baking or wine without grapes.
- The earth and everything on it forming in 6 days.
- Parting the Red Sea
- Man coexisting with dinosaurs
- Afterlife
- The Rapture

That's just the tip of the iceberg of one religion. Yet, many people believe these things as fact without evidence. That is why I view religion as dangerous and ignorant. This is why I have a lack of respect for them. I respect those who require more than "faith". I respect those who are brave enough to be comfortable not knowing all the answers...but not making shit up to fill in the blanks so they can sleep at night. I have every right to disrespect any mode of thinking which I find misogynistic, racist, homophobic, delusional, ignorant or otherwise outdated.

Regarding your comment:

"My original comment was just that one side of the argument is polite, and perfectly happy to depend on faith, while the other side is often insulting and attempts to cloak their faith in the illusion of science, which says nothing either way on the subject. Trust me, if the believers tried the same sort of tactics, I'd be on them too."

This couldn't be more false. Science is not an illusion, it is the exact opposite. I am not "cloaking" anything. I've seen the worst of behavior from both sides of the fence as well. If you want to know why Atheists might seem pissed off? Imagine trying to tell someone the earth revolves around the sun, but they insist their religion says the sun revolves around the earth. No matter how much evidence you present, they say it is a matter of you not having "faith". Then you start to understand why there are so many problems in the world since people are taught superstitious fiction as fact.

johnnyabnormal

GadgetPlay

If you say "magic ponies made the oceans" it is up to you to prove this.

This is classic logic, and is irrefutable except by resort to nonsense.

On the other hand it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove a negative, so no I cannot prove there is no God. Still though the burden lies with the one making the assertion.

[atheism.about.com]

Gary_7vn

GadgetPlay

SpyderMS

@GadgetPlay: Uh, I think you've missed my point entirely. Are you trying to peg me as a Agnostic? Did I not say I was a Atheist already?

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "

-Einstein

johnnyabnormal

GadgetPlay

@johnnyabnormal: An interesting quote, thanks for sharing, but this part of it?

'I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world'

The problem with THAT is that it assumes people who believe in God stop wondering about anything, stop trying to understand. That's not true at all. There are many people of faith who still question the world, who seek to understand, who are not satisfied with a lack of understanding. Belief in God is not equal to complacency with the world.

Also, I still agree with that which was said earlier: neither atheists nor believers having proof. I've followed the discussion, but have yet to see any indication that atheists have proven something.

nightmajik

Iggy

DeadWriter

I am not really an atheist as I think its impossible for me to KNOW that there is no G_d but having said that, I don't see any real evidence either. As for "faith" I don't really have any. My "wager" is that if there is a god, and it is the nice being that most religions say it is, then I believe I am not going to get taken to the woodshed, simply because I can't believe. I would if I could, but I can't.

Sincerely hope that things work out with your daughter!

Gary_7vn

johnnyabnormal

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."

With that said, I would like for you to prove to be that the cat & the hat doesn't exist. I mean, if it was written in a book it MUST be true!

johnnyabnormal

zofomofo

GadgetPlay

Curves

diablodevil2

johnnyabnormal

nutcracker

Y2KGTP

It's not like people need much reason to bend their beliefs to justify their actions. Columbine, hate crime, politics, etc.

Tenno

Weather balloons are only partially filled to accomodate the expansion that occurs at higher altitudes, and his party balloons looked to me like they were full at launch.

steveg769

I think they managed to make the GPS work, because they have pinpointed several points when he made contact.

He was prepared from a 20 hours trip, and those weird clothes he is wearing was to keep the cold out. He also took food enough to last those 20 hours.

But it's been too long now. Didn't see the news today, but dunno if they'll find them.

The problem is that the satellite cellphone battery probably died after the last contact.

There were several human errors too... first: He really didn't know how to operate the GPS correctly.
He failed to learn some very basic stuff... for instance: The wind not being the same on high altitudes.

You know, he thought "Hey, the wind down here is northwest, so up there must probably be the same".

Only it's been a crazy weather these past few days. Another signal he chose to ignore and pull that crazy stunt.

I'm kinda sorry for him, but just goes to show that faith alone doesn't make you immortal or immune to getting hurt or killed while pulling crazy stunts.

Risking your life doing life-threatening stuff without seeking professional advice is not a proof of faith, or bravery... is just a display on ignorance and stupidity...

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

johnnyabnormal

Curves

johnnyabnormal

Mr. Moto

ltcmurray

Mr. Moto

"if I believe and I am wrong=No Loss."

See, I view this as a loss. When you can get people to believe in something without proof, you can get them to believe or do almost anything. To me, religion is the exact opposite of science. People make up religions to fill in the blanks of what people don't understand or fear. This same fear is used to threaten non-believers with eternal pain for not conforming to a particular faith...no thanks!

Obviously, there are many shades of grey when it comes to passive or extreme believers. I respect you as a person, but find your logic flawed. Not a big deal & I hope you're not taking it personally. It's not like you're one of these guys:

+ Watch video

johnnyabnormal

I'm not trying to insult you, but you did bring it up.

The_Archon

What I said is that I can perfectly imagine his frustration. I don't care he had zero tech knowledge. I do care that most current gadgets have a steep learning curve.

You may have the experience to not perceive this, but having seen people of all ages with zero technological knowhow puzzled at the most advanced and--in theory--easiest to use gadgets and computers, nobody can't ignore the fact that user interface design is a very real problem in most of today's technology.

Jesus Diaz

Curves

VirreVojj

As one poster above said, he probably took a cheap TomTom or Garmin driving navigation device.

surur

@Gary_7vn: It's nice to know some people don't fear the unknown, brother.

johnnyabnormal

Although there are many examples of poor gadget design, gadgets in general are not that difficult to use. If they were, we wouldn't use them. To present this guy as a victim of bad gadget design is idiotic. Is Father de Carli now the lowest common denominator that we should aim for when designing consumer technology? This is obviously a transparent attempt by you to shoehorn a tragic and controversial story into a gadget related topic. Shame on you.

HeD

roflwaffles

Does anyone else remember the cartoon that showed a fat guy with a pony tail telling his friend, "I made the command, cntrl alt del 0420 so it's easy to remember"?

Even though the interface may have been "hard" to use, I don't have much sympathy for this guy. He should have learned. BTW where was G_d that day anyway? Same place as all the other days I guess.

Either way the good Father is with Poseidon now...@johnnyabnormal:

Gary_7vn

@Curves: Well, give him a big fat kiss on the cheek with those lips of yours.

johnnyabnormal

johnny_ice71

gibson042

dinnyin

Considering it was raining and cloudy, he couldnt see the land/water.

NovoRei

Curves

Carni77

superbryant

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!

So the guy had a GPS unit but didn't know how to use it. So frakin' what? Even if he HAD known how to read his position, how in the hell would that have helped him? What was he going to do, just look up and yell, "Hey, balloons, please turn left now!"?

As far as I could see, the balloon cluster had absolutely no discernible navigational rudders, no horizontal control at all. Nor did he have any control over his vertical position (other than a one-time ability to release some helium to bring himself back down). This rig was just going to go wherever the wind was blowing anyway. And apparently it did.

bosskev

surfer88

johnnyabnormal

Also, as for working above ground. I suspect a few cheap GPS (maybe cheap ones made for your car) are marginally less accurate if you are off the ground and the GPS isn't geared for that. Once your altitude is higher your angles to the GPS satelites will change just a touch. But any decent GPS can also tell you your altitude as well as long and lat. And he just needed the rescurers to be within a few miles of him since he was a very visible item.

TallManNY

Technophiles that often act as opinion leaders usually hate simplistic interfaces and will bitch and moan about things being dumbed down or to flashy.

Hence the distaste for Apple among some who like to use command line interfaces.

Sihanouk-s-Poodle

dashriprock

@johnnyabnormal:What surprises me, is that it always seems to be the atheists sniping at believers and not the other way around. Neither side has any evidence, and both beliefs are a matter of choice. You'd think the vitriol would be more evenly divided.

GadgetPlay

dashriprock

While I myself prefer an intuitive interface for devices, when I don't feel like learning, I let someone else fly the plane. Clearly "God" was not his co-pilot.

vagrant

Why weren't people on the ground following him visually?

He wanted to break the record for distance? ...was it in height or just horizontal distance?

I would expect this kind of thing to happen in like... 1950? 1960? when people were high all the time and didn't really pay attention to anything... at all... EVER...

1970's?...mehby?

...I'm astonished and perplexed with this situation... amazing this kind of thing still happens.

xint

WilCon

End of story.

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

yachius

He is probably flying over Thailand as we speak wearing a victorian top hat...

VakeroRokero

A thousand balloons are simply not enough to lift up a grown man.

I can see what's coming next: Priest makes miraculous return from certain death journey thanks to his faith or some similar rubbish.

I'm betting in reality he's just hiding in his basement for a couple of days.

JesusDeSaad

JBKing

At one point the reporter was given the remote control of some brand new fancy HDTV and asked him to find how to turn up the volume. It took him 30-seconds of searching among the dozens of buttons, which were all the same size and color. Something as simple as making the channel and volume, the most frequently used buttons on a remote, bigger in size than the others was completely overlooked because the company was most concerned about being the first to release the latest HDTV technology.

LastVigilante

johnnyabnormal

To quote Mr. Diaz, "The problem here is that I can imagine his frustration, trying to make sense of an infernal device so he could tell people his exact location, all the while knowing that he was going to get lost forever in the immensity of the sea.."

martini1179

ChromiumSwitch

zmarn

blank

Darrone

Rev. Eaton Yorke Hunt

ronbailey

Kevin O

Kevin O

sandmanfvr

Obviously the GPS system as a whole is perfectly capable of mapping you in 3D, you get a triangulated fix in all three dimensions. Does the particular unit the padre picked up at the best buy work in a balloon lawnchair, we may never know.

@Geisrud: Just to be pedantic, the helium expands in the balloon so that the balloon has a density less than the surrounding atmosphere and it then has lift as it is buoyant in the surrounding air.

The mass of the system does not change.

If you are in an airless environment, the weight will remain the same.

Kevin O

riqgeez

zenpoet

ooinseattle

HoseHead

ViRus-

The real culprit isn't messy UI's. It's that technology needs to be demystified to the older generations. They just just look at things as confusing magic boxes when in the end they are nothing but slightly complicated file cabinets based off nothing more than logic.

So when an older person gets stumped they just figure they don't "get this crazy technology" rather than trying to actually figure it out.

BonoMan

junyo

Geisrud

junyo

PJK

riqgeez

potohead1

retarded

mikeysnipa

luciusad2004

MagnoliaBoy

i4ni

Rand

delithic

ripfire

blank

riqgeez

TOWken22

kawuro

Darrone

Return to Sender: God Pops Balloons

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!

habib15

Foolish? Yes. Even stupid. But for a true man of faith, which I am most certainly not, this is a win-win situation. I doubt a just god would consider half-witted, fearless optimism to be suicide.

BasicBlack

Geisrud

If not he was a fool, and God doesn't always protect fools, even if they're on the payroll.

strider_mt2k

MagnoliaBoy

"Deacon Deckchair"

Happy Tuesday folks.

nystreetfilms

[icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com]

Easy enough.

Coolio911911