<![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis - Gizmodo Comments]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis - Gizmodo Comments]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> I have been researching Bioplastics versus petro-plastics(this includes oxo-degradable, photo-degradable, and enzyme-degradable) for a few years now, so I have a few points to make, number one is that all compostable waste in landfill produces methane, not just the compostable bags, the way the press goes it's like the bags are different to other compostable waste, and that's not true.

As for non-food crops it is laughable to suggest bioplastics have any bearing on food crops, when the total world production is barely 200,000 tonnes, and yet the production of starch from crops is 48.5 million tonnes per annum, global Wheat production alone is 524m tonnes per annum, corn is 766m tonnes per annum, add soy, potatoes, rice, etc and bioplastics are a VERY VERY small fraction of food crop production.

All plastics including 'degradable' are made from fossil fuel based plastic, which is responsible for producing millions of tonnes of greenhouse gasses worldwide in manufacturing, in FACT every tonne of polyethylene or polypropylene produces DOUBLE it's weight in CO2 emissions, nylon produces about EIGHT times it weight in CO2.

The world needs to invest $45 trillion in energy in coming decades, build some 1,400 nuclear power plants and vastly expand wind power in order to halve greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, according to an energy study released Friday, and yet plastics manufacturers and buyers are still happy to pollute the atmosphere with CO2 generating plastics.

[biz.yahoo.com]

Plastics are proven to attract high levels of poisonous chemicals, and 'degradable' plastic will break down into small particles that after collecting poisonous chemicals, could be taken up by the food chain and poison the eco-system, right up to us. These small particles would be so small and light and invisible to us, we could be breathing them in and they might cause cancer or other painful end, by the time we found out it would be too late(possibly for much of the life on Earth), just like for many that suffered from asbestos or cigarettes that were claimed to be safe, but 'degradable' particles would cover the planet, not just one pack of cigarettes or one room, nothing would be immune to the spreading particles.

The answer is plant based plastics

Plant based plastics ARE biodegradable and compostable(many compostable at home) and certified as such, and made from renewable raw materials, you just grow them.

Plant based plastics REDUCE greenhouse gases in the atmosphere as the plants grow. Growing more plants for plastic would REDUCE greenhouse gases and help reverse climate change AND crop failures.

One study shows that "every pound of soy-based polymers produced instead of petroleum-based removes 2.1 pounds of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere".

Another study shows that in manufacture, plant based plastics use 30% less energy and create just 25% of the greenhouse gases that fossil fuel plastics do. Also evrery tonne of starch based plastics consumes 2.19 tonnes of greenhouse gases whilst the plants are growing, thus LOWERING CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

Greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere are the cause of climate change that is linked to increasing crop failures, use more plastic and you get more global warming and less crops, use bioplastics and you get less greenhouse gas and more crops, so far from bioplastic being bad for food crops, they are in fact the answer to the falling crop yields and failing crops, not rocket science is it folks!!

For the plant based plastic and a huge amount of information on Bioplastics just go to:

[www.stanelcoplc.com]

.

PaulM1

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @ Rand: Carmen89 said "Global Warming my butt, it's a natural flow of the way the world works, many years ago you had hippies crying b.c an ice age was coming, now we are all going to burn in our own man-made hell."

That is awake? The hippie argument is usually the sign of someone who isn't paying attention.

zingbot

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @uomolinux: "...add to that the so-called Bio-Ethanol + all those idiot who buy Hummer... and you get a food crisis."

The more people incorrectly assume "ethanol" must come from food and that is it automatically "bad" the worse off we'll be 10 years from now. Cellulosic ethanol is made from food _waste_ and other organic manufacturing waste. So we'd be turning landfill into fuel, which is far superior to corn/sugar.

Let's not ruin the future of a perfectly respectable fuel over knee-jerk assumptions.

shawn_dude

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @GadgetPlay: Over plastic bags? Someone is controlling you?

MMKAY!!!

iomatic

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @djdare:
I'm going to institute a plastic bag credit. You're allowed to waste extra bags that Yours Smugly isn't wasting, but you have to pay me for it :c)

Rabid Penguin

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> I forgot to check up on this thread in a timely manner. oops.

@Gary_7vn: The best way would be to leave the oil in the ground. I'm doing the next best thing, which is putting it back *in* the ground, and in a less usable form to boot.

Also, carbon sequestration is not a reason for something to not biodegrade. Not sure what you meant by that.

Babysealclubber

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @djdare:
Oh yes, white lightning is an excellent use of corn. That stuff can wet my whistle better than anything else! XXX


GiltProto

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> ...Soylent Green...

bahalana

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @GadgetPlay: well played sir... much more clear concise, and less vulgar than my version.

djdare

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @GiltProto: ethanol existed way before the 80's hommie... white lightening for starters

djdare

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @zingbot: Oh I think Macy's was gettin in on the green cash cow as well. Here's the kicker, my wife works there and she came home the other day bitching about how they were asking for donations to the national parks department now. They are asking for $5 from everyone who makes a purchase, and of that $5, only 80% even makes it to the god damn charity. Macy's is taking 20% off the top... wtf?! They're going green all right, going green all the way to the god damn bank.

Wake up.

djdare

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @zingbot: wanna bet? this is more of a fad than boy bands, and Im real fuckin sick of it, I saw a Television program yesterday on discovery channel, and every single ad during every single commercial break was for something "green"

"home depot's going green, so we should all replace all of our appliances with new ones because they're greener, make sure to get a brand new energy star dishwasher" because washing them by fucking hand would use way more energy than a machine... oh fucking wait"

The saturn vue is now available with toxic batteries, and with way more wasteful manufacturing, yippee hurray I'm so smug in my greeness everyone must know that I care. I'm raising awareness.

djdare

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @GadgetPlay: word
@Yours Smugly: ha, wikipedia... stop being a fucking fascist "oh but it's good for the earth, so we should all bend over backwards, and possibly in the end fuck up things even more than we would've if we just continued on our merry fucking way" stop being a fucking lemming, lemming.

djdare

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Yours Smugly: for every plastic bag you don't waste, I'm going to waste 3. 1 for me, 1 for you, and 1 just because fuck it.

djdare

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> f**k hippies.

Travisism

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Yours Smugly: "The Wikipedia article of Earth Day makes no mention of global cooling:"

Of course it doesn't, it was written by radical environmentalists.

@iomatic:"How about you polluting, stinky-ass, anti-environment folk all get in a spacecraft and get the fuck off our planet."

No one is anti-environment, but some of us are against certain smug, superior, holier-than-thou types who think environmentalism is an excuse to control the rest of us. OKTHXGFY!!

GadgetPlay

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @skierpage: I could not agree more. I'm not the most environmentally friendly person, but the one thing I do to help other than the requisite recycling is bring a canvas bag or two grocery shopping.

Gann

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> So I'm guessing that nobody here would be a big fan of those stoves that burn wood pellets or CORN. As I recall in the 80's there were such humongous corn surplus' that grain elevators were overflowing and giant piles of corn covered in tarps were rotting on the ground and feeding rodents. And thus was the search born for alternative uses of all that corn. Ethanol, plastics, etc. People become inventive when it comes time to making a profit.

GiltProto

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> In terms of the 'bioplastics is causing a food shortage' argument:

I hope all of you realize that meat, in particular the beef and pork, are vastly more resource intensive than plastics are.

Worring about the impact of biofules and bioplastics on the world's food supply is quaint, but it becomes a mute issue compared to the giant consumption of resources generated by the meat industry.

This is also true for methane production: decomposing bioplastic bags pale to the generation of methane from livestock.

Changing your bags or lightbulbs will change little interms of global resource consumption. Changing your diet will have a larger impact.

So, to all those concerned about the world food supply, I hope you investigate where your food comes from and what goes into your food before commenting on world food shortages caused by bioplastics.

[www.nytimes.com]

EatMyMeat

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> ...

How about you polluting, stinky-ass, anti-environment folk all get in a spacecraft and get the fuck off our planet.

OKTHXBY!

:P

.

.

iomatic

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Forgive my armchair scientist viewpoint, but I don't really get how plastics mess up the environment any worse than some other common man-made materials do.

Take glass for instance. It's been around for thousands of years and it doesn't bio-degrade. We send tons of it to our landfills every year yet no one ever hears how glass is killing the environment. oh - and let's not forget the carbon footprint created when we mold glass for the many products it gets used in. Just compare the melting point of glass to the melting point of plastic...

That's just one example. I'm sure there are other arguments that point out how odd the concern over plastic is.

I'm not against recycling, by the way, but the whole plastic argument seems strange to me...

drsmith

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Message: live like it's 1999 B.C.. No plastic, SUVs, TVs, landfills, cars, boats, planes, houses, buildings, sewage, electricity, light, etc. No matter what we do, something bad will happen. Solution? Go back to a time when the only technology we had was sitcks and stones.

vastrightwing

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @daftrok: More problems means more of those nice pictures and more income for who makes it. I for one support the artist by doing bad things to the environment.

Groggy Banana

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Ya know if people weren't so lazy and actually recycled their paper and/or plastic, this wouldn't be an issue. Reuse the plastic ones as much as possible and take them back to the store for recycling if your area garbage service don't offer recycling. Why is that so hard? And if other non-food outlets switched to recycled paper bags then the problem would be even less so.

HDC

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Rabid Penguin: im my experience paper bags are just as strong, just as easy to carry groceries in, and easier to pack. The fact that you pay $0.34 instead of $0.25 really doesn't make a difference (1.5 SEK vs 2 SEK). Although it would be nice if they were waterproof like the paper compost bags we have.

citizen024

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Rand: Companies are big on being 'green' now the same way they were big on being 'socially responsible' after Enron. Just because they are going to abandon it in a few years doesn't mean its not a good idea.

Hiphopopotamus

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @zingbot: Maybe you should go back and read what Carmen89 wrote. Sorry attaching the "Green" label to everything is a trend. It is a Fad, but what she said is we need to move beyond a fad and make it a way of life. Something we do not just because everyone else is doing it, but because its the right thing to do. 5-10 years from now will all those people on the green bandwagon today still be on it? If past behavior is any indication, I'll be very surprised if they are. Carmen is awake.

Rand

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @carmen89: So because you don't like the name and can't be bothered, we should all just sit back and keep consuming? Hippies? Really?

Green (or whatever you want to call it) is not a fad, not a trend, not a flash in the pan. It is a way for us to lower our use of resources before it starts affecting the quality of life, the economy and the natural landscape we have right now. Buildings, consumers, families, cars all produce BILLIONS of tons of waste and emissions every year. Not a fad. Whether or not you link it to climate changes, it is still a problem.

Wake up.

zingbot

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @GadgetPlay: The Wikipedia article of Earth Day makes no mention of global cooling:
[en.wikipedia.org]

And whether or not humans are to blame for the climate change does not matter. If the result is a cleaner and more sustainable style of life, it's all for the better.

Yours Smugly

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Yours Smugly: "...there never was wide-spread concern about a fast-approaching ice age in the 70's:"

The first Earth Day was to raise awareness of Global COOLING. They couldn't get any traction with that, so they changed to Global Warming. The evidence is shaky on that, so they've gone to Global Climate Change so that no matter what the weather does, it's bad, and it's our fault.

GadgetPlay

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Yours Smugly: I don't believe I am off topic. Being green (green gizmodo?) has to be connected in some way to this article, so don't tell me it doesn't. I'm just sick of people making things into a bigger deal then they really are.

Carmen turns 19 in 5 days!!!

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @carmen89: You're off the topic. This wasn't about the climate change, but about the problems of bioplastics. Besides, there never was wide-spread concern about a fast-approaching ice age in the 70's:
[environment.newscientist.com]

Anyway, back to the topic. I always carry a cloth bag with me. It has served me well for many, many years and spared the world from hundreds of plastic bags. Whatever energy costs and environmental effects that cotton bag made during its manufacturing have probably been paid back ten or hundred or thousandfold.

So, just ditch the plastic bags. And while you're at it, do something about the food crisis and cut your automobile habit. Something just isn't right when hundreds of millions are made poor just because we want to drive gas guzzlers. And as for plastics in general - maybe we should just recycle them a little more effectively. At some point we might realize there's no such thing as disposables in a finite world like ours.

Yours Smugly

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @citizen024:
Plastic grocery bags are stronger and easier to carry.

Bio-fuels, Bio-plastics, and the like are the bane of society.

Johnn: "I'm starving Mr. I haven't had any food in almost three weeks... Can I please have a bite of that corn?"

Mr: "I don't think so Johnny. I'd love to help you out, but I think I'd rather light it on fire."

That's basically what's happening...

I want to keep our planet clean as much as the next guy, but these environmentalists are screwing the planet up more than helping.

Rabid Penguin

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> "maybe it's time everyone just ditched plastics all together."

What would you use? Wood fibre bags? Can't go cutting down those precious trees that are eating up the CO2 now can we?!! Other fibres? Still gonna have to mow down trees to plant the cotton or hemp, etc. All told, a small hole (oil well) seems to do a lot less damage ... oh, and guess what, that evil oil just happens to be vegetable matter made by mother nature herself.

Brau

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> I've always preferred paper bags anyways, seriously,why use plastic.

citizen024

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Doh! I was quite happy that we had those bags (I work for a chain kind of like Radio Shack in New Zealand, but with less components) but now it sounds like we're making things worse. Bugger!

TailsNZ

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> These ears of corn I've been burning for warmth probably aren't helping the situation either. My bad, Earth.

Hiphopopotamus

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> THE number one culpit of the food crisis is the lack of legislation to forbid greedy brokers of making millions with essential food, add to that the so-called Bio-Ethanol + all those idiot who buy Hummer... and you get a food crisis.

uomolinux

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @carmen89:
Me three. It turns out that most organic stuff does not decay in a landfill unless you inject water and air into it to seed the generation of methane (i.e. feed the bacteria). In general landfills are designed to prevent the inflow or capture of water. And what does ooze out of the bottom is generally toxic and needs to be captured and treated through some sort of waste treatment facility. I remember seeing a program on TV where an archeology class from a university dug down and found newspapers from the 1950's that looked like they came out of a paper drive only a month ago. The place where biodegradeable plastic bags are an advantage is when some imbecile litters or throws them into a waterway where they could eventually kill animals, clog up an intake pipe, or jam up a boat's propellor. Even regular plastic bags will quickly weather out in the open due to mechanical abrasion and/or UV rays from the sun. The problem here is not methane generation or food production but more a matter of people being innefficient and wasteful. Just another set of problems for our ineffective politicians to legislate or tax. I just wrote too many words.


GiltProto

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> BYOB =bring your own bag!!!!!!!!!!!!

beeeeeeaaaaaacccchhhhhhhh

Fatty

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> I am so sick and tired of this GREEN crap. Green this and Green that, I swear if any company who turns green steps foot near me I will break their jaws. Global Warming my butt, it's a natural flow of the way the world works, many years ago you had hippies crying b.c an ice age was coming, now we are all going to burn in our own man-made hell. Lets just be cleaner to our communities and stop using the word Green. Green is not a conscious mind set but a fad and a trend. shame.

Carmen turns 19 in 5 days!!!

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @daftrok: You may not live forever but it's sure going to seem like it.

Why no gun? They make completely lead free ammo now.

GadgetPlay

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Babysealclubber: Actually I heard an interview with a spokesthingy for the "ënergy" industry. She claimed that the fact that the bags don't biograde for exactly the same reason you stated (sequesters greenhouse gases). Of course she failed to mention the best way is to not make the bags at all.

Gary_7vn

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @man_in_gauze: Absolutely. We imported wheat last year for the first time ever (I think). Not because we're using wheat for bio-plastics or fuels, but because government ethanol subsidies are causing farmers to plant corn instead of wheat. Ethanol is just a bad idea all around.

GadgetPlay

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> "OUT IN THE PACIFIC PLASTIC IS GETTING DRASTIC THE WORLD'S LARGEST "LANDFILL" IS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN"
[www.mindfully.org]

I'm 50 years old so I will probably make it through the rest of my life without resorting cannibalism.
I would not bet on it if I was under 30.

Girl at the counter, "Would you like a bag for your bag of chips? Would you like it double bagged?"

Gary_7vn

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @misplacedparadox: Halifax is on it. Now if only everyone would get with the program.
[www.jgpress.com]

Gary_7vn

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Groggy Banana:
Its a bit chilling reading those. Makes me glad I recycle paper bags, paper, aluminum cans, and never buy plastic bottles (anymore). Also makes me glad I drive a 25 mpg vehicle that I only drive 1000 miles a year and use rechargeable batteries (and don't have a gun and use only two plastic cups that I reuse all the time. And I don't smoke. Nor use toothpicks. And I give my used cellphones for other people to use. And haven't gone to prison. And I have health insurance. And no prescription drugs whatsoever. And am against the war in Iraq. But I still get on airplanes...I'm a terrible person!

daftrok

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> so you are saying we are back to square one? Who knew dispossible bags were so hard to manufacture...

exer881

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Why does everyone seem to find refuse so much easier than reuse? I bought a plastic file crate years ago for just a few bucks and really haven't needed a bag since. It can hold around two bags-worth of groceries, has a much more solid/stackable construction, and is easily tossed in the car or strapped on the bike. Stores around me are finally offering cloth and other reusable bags, too, so I think bioplastics missed that market.

Computer_Chef

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> That picture is a zoomed up version of a gigantic picture depicting a similar issue. Go see it to understand.[www.chrisjordan.com]
There's some impressive work there and a link to the guy who made it would've been nice.

Groggy Banana

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> That's a fighting period if i ever did see one.

Half off all shafts!

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> .

Babysealclubber

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @Elaine Chow: Also, I doubt that plastics are generating much methane in the first place.

I always have figured I was doing the environment a very small favor by disposing of my plastics in a land fill. It's the ultimate carbon sequestration strategy! Bury it under a huge mound of dirt.

Babysealclubber

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> If only we were like Canadians and had compost pickup. waste goes to specific locations depending on what it is. Human waste = garbage, bioplastics = compost. The problem is we like to make things that won't biodgrade (hence the origin of landfills in the first place), if you put bioplastics in a landfill, it is the WRONG place. why not extend on my thesis: biodegradable electronic gizmos, then we won't need landfills in the first place. ecozmos.com

misplacedparadox

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> "methane, which is 23 times more powerful than carbon dioxide."
Um... "more powerful"? Exactly what does that mean?

@xenti:
Haha, well said.

packetsniffer

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Check this out: [www.springerlink.com]

Michai

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> The only kind of bag that helps the environment? Condoms.

johnnyabnormal

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Haha. Hippies can't get anything right.

xenti

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @skierpage: I'd be fine with that as long as the pricing was rational. The bags cost pennies to the store, charge what they cost - I'd pay it without blinking. Some kind of deposit would be even better.

As it is MA has a $.05 deposit on drink bottles and cans. I stopped returning them years ago. I can't be arsed to haul my empties back to the store and feed them into a machine - my time is worth more than the money I'd get back. I used to do it, but as I got busier in life it just stopped being something I cared to do.

So now I collect the bottles and cans in a large trash barrel (I cut a convenient hole in the lid to just drop them in) and when full I take the big bag and leave it on the curb on recycling day - and it is always gone well before the truck comes around. Some homeless person hits the jackpot at my house periodically with a lawn & leaf bag full of virtual nickels.

I do recycle otherwise as well, but I use the plastic bags from the grocery because I tend to go shopping once every couple of months and I'll haul home 20-30 bags at a time and I'm not going to carry that many friggin' canvas tote bags. I'd happily pay some reasonable fee to offset that - as long as the money went to environmental issues and not just some slush fund. As I said, deposits would be even better - then I'd leave them on the curb as well for someone else to cash in.

MegaZone

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Just make retailers sell bags to customers, encouraging the dumb consumers to bring their own.

@killarclown: "stragglers". [getfirefox.com] for its built-in speling chekcar

skierpage

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> Bottom line, just don't use any disposable bags.

Duh.

iomatic

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @killarclown: I agree. Please publish stuff like this in the main week. it is very important.

MFlick

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @GiltProto: Landfill operators have already claimed that there is no possible way to trap all the methane gas coming out of landfills. There's always going to be stuff that goes into the atmosphere anyway.

Also, there will never be enough way to produce more energy from methane gas than the energy it took to make that plastic bag.

Elaine Chow

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> @killarclown: stragglers, actually, for what it's worth. :)

Anyway, I wish people would stop thinking "Hey, let's make everything out of food, because we have food to spare!" Well yeah, that was true, until corn-based ethanol crippled our grain output and we ended up having to rely on global stockpiles (meaning we ate more than we produced) for the first time in a few decades, I believe.

In other words, we can go ahead and use our food to make all the petroleum products that we absolutely can't live without, but we'll be depriving ourselves of the one thing we really can't live without. To say nothing of the countries that depend on us (the US) for their food, as well.

man in gauze is king ramses II, silly.

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> straglers*

killarclown

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> If the operators of the landfill are trapping the methane being generated within to generate electrical power then the bags would be a good thing, or at least not such a bad thing.

GiltProto

]]> <![CDATA[Bioplastics: Environmentally Unfriendly, Contributing To The Food Crisis]]> please extend this article into the work week for the main crowd to see and not just the weekend staglers..

killarclown

]]>