KaliRook

AustinGoolsby

oh and daftrok, you're full of amusing shit. here's five reasons why i don't have a pc anymore:

1. my mac was built to run mac os
2. mac os was built to run on my mac
3. all my hardware drivers are friends
4. i can run windows natively as well as emulated at decent speeds
5. you can boot in windows holding the option key
heck i think you can even change the default boot to the windows partition, but why would anyone want that?

i must say i do have nostalgia to all the hours spent fixing my dying windows (used it from 3.11 till xp) looking for those conflicting drivers (and i mean that) but i cherish those times as laughable memories now, which is also pretty nice i must say.
what i loved about the pc is the open construction and all the bullshit hardware you could add to it.
i also miss some of the great freeware/opensource programs i used frequently. it took a long time to find equivalent competitors on the mac platform. i'm glad to see the mac developing scene is growing, and what nice apps do they make! :)
anyone know a nice (batch) file renamer/mp3tagger by the way ? cause, mp3tag (win only) was the bomb.
hail mp3tag.

but you know, i love technology and spend a lot of time behind a computer. i also really love wine. and when i get to choose from two bottles of wine with the same quantity, i'd pick the most expensive one. actually, i'd pick that fucker if it carried less. try it, indulge yourself, once! that rich taste WILL make you forget about the money!

ciao

hooray for:
MP3Tag: [www.mp3tag.de]

sjogro

Its nice that you bothered to clear up those important points.

kevman90

1. Only FireWire 400, and no power pins (on a notebook!). I have fast mobile mass storage devices for FireWire 800, now what? I can't connect them to the Dell except over sluggish USB as a fallback, or using a FireWire 4-to-9-pin adapter, but then I still have half the throuhput and no power. So where do I plug in my external hard disk's power supply when I'm on the road?
2. The processor of the Dell you seem to have configured is a Merom, all MacBook Pros have a Penryn which uses much less power. By the way, I've measured idle power consumption on a Dell Precision M70 and my PowerBook G4 which is roughly the same age. 50W vs. 15W.
3. All Dell notebooks I've seen have either merely bearable or outright bad displays. The MacBook Pro's LED-backlit display is gorgeous, easily the best notebook display widely avaiable. In fact, even brand new Dells I have seen had a display that was way inferior to that of my old PowerBook G4.
4. "Fast Ethernet" - are you kidding me? Macs have all had gigabit Ethernet for years. My Mac mini has GbE, so does my Time Capsule. "Fast" Ethernet is freaking slow! This is supposed to be a "Pro" notebook?
5. Trackpads. All Trackpads on non-Macs I've ever used have made me yearn for a mouse minutes later. On the other hand, I could use the PowerBook's trackpad for hours and not even notice. Dell trackpads tend to be worse than those of other non-Macs. By the way, screw the missing second button. I can't use it conveniently anyway without dislodging some joints (I usually move the cursor with my ring finger and click with the index finger on Mac trackpads; I scroll with middle and ring finger). So I'm fine with Control-Clicking or Command-Clicking anyhow.
6. Bluetooth is only an add-on, and then only 2.0. A minor point admittedly but add-ons tend to mean extra weight.
7. At least HDMI is present, as in my experience, Dell notebooks have about the crappiest VGA DACs on the market. But does it support digital output to 30"-Displays like the MacBook Pro (up to 2560x1600 @ 60Hz)?
8. Battery life - generally very bad on Dells. Furthermore, the Dell notebooks I've come to know and loathe destroyed many batteries (this once happened on the one I was given as well). The battery on my PowerBook lasted and lasted and lasted and lasted. Finally, after 300 full cycles with only a 18% decline in capacity, it was replaced for free under Apple's battery recall program. The new battery lasts and lasts. Not to mention that I got 4 hours of light use on the PowerBook vs. 2 hours on the Precision.
9. DVD burners. Granted, the M1530 can read Bluray (UPDATE: Only for +$500 :-) ), for which I have no use whatsoever (I'm considering getting a FireWire 800 Bluray burner, though). But in my experience, Dell burners aren't even compatible with themselves. I've had enormous trouble burning an ISO from MSDN, I tried the drives on several Dells in vain but got read errors later every time, wasting 4 or 5 media. Finally, I tried to burn the ISO on my Mac Mini (Pioneer SuperDrive), and the DVD instantly worked on the M70 without any problems.
10. Hard disks - I had several hard disk failures on Dells, even within the warranty. While this means my employer did get a free replacement, it also meant I had a lot of hassle getting back up to speed. Fortunately, I was able to recover non-backed up data using Knoppix.
11. OS - let's face it, XP is thoroughly inconvenient, especially on a notebook (external displays, reliability of standby and speed of waking up from it, etc.), and Vista is outright unusable for the software developer that I am. But virtualized XP on OS X does run all the apps I need to write Windows software, at amazing speed (all the new Macs have Intel Virtualization Technology out of the box).
12. Sound quality - I don't know about the XPS, but on the Precision M70 and the Precision Workstation 490, audio quality was atrocious. Macs, on the other hand are the tool of choice for many musicians, and for a reason. All new Macs except the MacBook Air have combined multi-channel digital audio in- and outputs rsp. high quality analog stereo.
13. Noise. The Dells I've come to known are somewhat to extremely loud. The MacBook Pro is almost silent at only 0.2-0.3 Sone.
14. Memory utilization - you can put up to 4GB into the XPS, but you cannot use more than 3-3.5 GB using 32-bit Windows. 64-bit Windows, on the other hand, is quite incompatible with 32-bit Windows. Many Apps simply refuse to install or run. You might just as well be running Mac OS, only you'd be having way more fun.
15. WLAN - my colleagues have lots of trouble with WLAN on Dell notebooks. Apple offers trouble-free WiFi, even on my iPod touch.

By the way, I now went through the process of configuring the Dell XPS M1530 as close as possible to my 15" MacBook Pro that is due for delivery on Monday. I'm now at $2417 for 2.6GHz Penryn, 4GB RAM, 7200rpm HDD etc. vs. the $3360 (without VAT, with 3 years warranty and shipping) for the MacBook Pro I bought at a location other than the Apple Store (with Kingston RAM, mind you). Oh, Dell charges extra for shipping, of course. As far as the base specs are concerned, the Dell has 50GB more HDD space but only half the VRAM. And Dell doesn't even offer a matte screen option on the XPS. Moreover, I'd still have to put up with all the Dell-typical crap mentioned before. :-) And yes, it is possible to change the startup disk on Macs permanently, but only non-dense people can do it, so you might be out of luck.

Jackal-Head

As a mac user i have learned not to get defensive about petty comments from ignorant Mac bashers. Have you ever upgraded to a new operating system on a computer and expected it to run faster. (specifically vista) so please.

@daftrok: "3) No, on a Mac you cannot have the option to when you push the ON button it loads Windows. You HAVE to load Mac OSX first and THEN load Windows XP. Also the reason why people want XP is so that they can run the programs Mac can't (especially games). And having that option for cheap on Macs bridges the gap. Why get a PC when you can run Windows AND Mac OSX on a Mac for similar prices (hopefully)."

Ok i dont know if other posters corrected your post you know nothing about but its easily configurable to choose which OS you start up with.

Damn i had to get it out of my system...

kevman90

Mr_Human

any new apple laptop you right click by putting 2 fingers on the pad and clicking, or use 2 fingers to scroll

and the new mighty mice are fantastic, they have 4 buttons and a scroll wheel that works great. they just look like the old ones because all the buttons are pressure sensitive.

and finally, i'm building a hackintosh and i looked at psystar and forget about it, to much money for to little

for 800 bucks or so you can build with a quad core processor, 4g high speed ram, big ol hd and all the other goodies.

paul.bikes

EarlAcestes

MassimoRacknagular

However making crap and trying to sell it is not going to endear you to the masses that bought products like iMac, iTouch, iPhone, MacBook, MacBookAir, and on and on....

The reason third party developers were canned originally was that quality dropped drastically. Yes they all use the same parts now (supposedly), but various PC manufacturers can't seem to put them together properly.

Oh well, let the sillyness continue, if you want it - buy it, otherwise continue to drool. It's like hopping up a Honda and thinking it's as good as the Ferrari.

jasonBelec

rleon

It is annoying when it freezes up, but it's actually really easy to fix. I forget the exact steps, but basically you hold the mouse upside down on top of a wet cloth and clean the ball. Google it if you want to know exactly--that's what I did, and it's working fine again.

That said, when it's working it is way way more fun than the simple scrollwheel.

Jesssssse

I use both PCs and Macs at home but I prefer to carry my MacBook Pro around because it's much lighter than my Dell Latitude. It's just a matter of choice. I cannot not like a certain platform. Apple's not going to make changes based on your arguments, so it's really a waste of time that you and I are posting such comments.

The OSX86 project is a great way for people to try out Mac OS X before they decide to buy their next computer. I'd never go with Pystar because paying Apple is what gets us development. Look at Software Update as getting an additional feature for paying Apple for it's hardware.

The iPhone is something else altogether. You buy the phone from Apple and use it with your network service provider and you cannot. That's forcing users to switch networks which may not necessarily be a good idea. Certain networks are better than others in certain aspects and choosing your network should be something you decide and not what your phone dictates.

Did you know how well that Pystar runs Hardy Heron. Why don't you talk about Open Computing and promote usage of Linux. What's all this hype about Mac OS X? Hardy Heron is excellent, I've installed it on my MacBook Pro and I'm glued.

xabhishek

Yamcha

IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU DO! lol thats the truth, if you game stay away from Mac, If your a designer get an Apple, or if you just wanna do the very Basics, then both are good enough, unless munnies an issue then go PC .

Yamcha

Why?

They both run OS X, they both run Windows, they both run open source OSs. They play the same games and run the same productivity software.

Intel processors dominate both markets. The same manufacturers build the same components for both sides.

They cost the same for the same specs, mostly offer about equal customer service if you're willing to pay for it (with some gives-and-takes that even things out), both have attractive and ugly designs, both have practical and impractical options, both cost way more to buy and support than to build and self-support.

The only differences, and they're slim, is that most non-Apple computers have more options for end-user self-upgradability, and OS X and its exclusive apps aren't officially out for non-Apple computers.

But both differences are negligible - fundamental hardware platforms are evolving so quickly, and most software so slowly, that upgradable hardware only drives the hardest-core markets. Hackers have installing OS X on a commodity system down to a Mac-equivalent experience.

The debate is over, people. Nobody won. Move on. Cooperate, collaborate and make everything better, because this fight officially became a waste of time to everyone but Apple marketers years ago.

If you're too immature to do that, the Alliance needs you at midfield in Warsong Gulch.

oboreruhito

faslane

trm96

I totally agree, I too am a Windows/MacOS user (I also use Linux). Use what ever OS makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside!

trm96

Intellimouse

No, you won't get flamed by the fanboys (at least, not sane ones) because you're talking about your own experiences, and making some legitimate complaints, unlike some people around here who's likely never even owned a Mac. With that said:

"There's many other small little things just like that, that really add up to a frustrating user experience"

A lot of your complaints stem not from the immaturity of the OS --- believe me, OSX is frikkin' mature; it's basically been in production, at least at its core, since the early nineties... it was called NeXT back then --- but from the differences in approaches between the two OSes (meaning OSX and Windows). E.g., in Windows, each window is treated as a process you can Alt + Tab to. Some people find that useful. Longtime Mac users like myself find it fucking annoying as hell, not to mention the clutter of windows that get placed in the task bar, especially when, on my Mac, I'm used to having 20-30 apps running concurrently. But I won't call the window behavior on Windows "immature." Just that it doesn't fit my workflow.

Such differences in OS design philosophy dictates, to some degree, how you interact with your OS. If you intend to construct a long term relationship with the OS, I suggest that you not try to replicate the Windows environment and workflow through freeware/shareware addons, but try to adjust your workflow to one that fits the OSX design and philosophy.

For example, don't minimize windows, keep them out, maximize Spaces, use Exposé to navigate to individual windows, use Spotlight to launch apps, etc.

Dearhaw

theknightinhell

Gizmodo: Can you ask the author that question please? Or even better, ask him to answer questions in the comments.

Also, when are the additional pictures coming?

Thank you for the post.

powerpage

I don't really agree or disagree because I have a spare machine that I run my windows stuff on, so I don't really care for Boot Camp much.

I also don't agree with the right-click button. The touchpad on my MBP is very intuitive and easy to use -- whenever I go to my PC laptop, I always use the double finger to scroll.

I'll also agree that the MBP is WAAY overpriced, but I also don't care because I got it as a gift of sorts.

I've been an apple user for all of 7 months now. I have to say, I am not thrilled about it. The OS just seems like it's not mature. To name a few things:

Alt(cmd)-tabbing -- can't tab to minimized windows, can't tab to specific windows. True, Witch fixes this, but why do we need a hack in place of a necessary feature? Plus, you can't configure Witch to pop up with Cmd-tab, but only alt-tab (and on the MBP alt is a much smaller key than cmd). Also, you could Cmd-~ between windows ONCE you're in the application itself, but you have to Cmd-tab to it first. Also, if you minimize windows in an application, and cmd-tab to the app, none of the windows show up (they're minimized!)

There's many other small little things just like that, that really add up to a frustrating user experience. Too many to name, really: Spaces, Timemachine, Xcode (worst IDE ever, imho), Objective-C (sorry, as a high-level language, C# blows it out of the water), Finder, iPhoto (crashes all the time), inability to connect my canon camera and have it be mounted, support for games.... the list goes on.

Still, there are parts to the OS that are nice, has lots of interesting preloaded software which has been polished enough so that I don't feel like my intelligence is being insulted (Windows Movie Maker? please..). Installing and uninstalling programs is really damn easy, and I love that. Of course, terminal kicks ass (goes without saying), and the new version, which now has tabs is ever better.

Anyway, the point is, I'm trying to be as objective as I possibly can, with actually having USED OS X on a real MBP for several months now as a power user. No doubt, I will get flamed by the fanboys, but I really have no vested interest one way or the other. As a matter of fact, I would love to see Apple polish up OS X so that I can actually enjoy using it and forget about the mess that is Vista.

Ultimately, though, nobody really cares what I think, because among the macheads I talk to, they don't share my opinions. Lots of people are happy using Apple products, and to Apple, that's what really matters (that, and the "bottom line").

ironkurton

cheers

MarioOC

"the overwhelming fanboyism in this thread is hilarious. i have never seen so many

1) you are wrong
2) you are half wrong
3) heres another reason you are wrong"

You are wrong. Last year you viewed a thread with twice the number of dismissive comments in it. Actually, you're half wrong, since the actual number of times people said "you are wrong, you are half wrong, or here's another reason you are wrong," was no more than here. But here's another reason you are wrong: when was the last time you counted the number of times a thread contained "you are wrong, you are half wrong, here's another reason you are wrong"?

Recursively yours,

Frigg

frigg

Dave!

1) you are wrong
2) you are half wrong
3) heres another reason you are wrong

lists in my life...

so much elitism e.g. "the mac users don't want your type around anyway". that's an ROFL waiting to happen. then XP users all up on the mac bois like "yeah well we can run games."

well, ya know what. 98% of these comments didn't even mention Psystar (the actual topic of this post... and theres my mention, so i'm good).

OS X, great for certain reasons
XP, great for gaming
Boot Camp, great to get the above experience of both OS's on a well designed (inward/outwardly) system.
$$$, also great to have if you want the above.

I have a laptop with XP and a desktop with XP. I agree with Mac and PC users that Vista is trash. ha.

That being said, I do want a Mac as well. I like each OS for different reasons. I would like to have both, not just one, and then vehemently talk about it trying to convince you mine is better.

Continue arguing while I use both OS's and have an even better time.

fall_farewell

davezatz

Psystar is not looking to mass produce these things, How can they with such blotches as unable run updates?

Why should Apple with a borderline international religious following worry about a niche product if they haven't touched the OSX86 project and its variants?

This elitist "if you can't afford a real Mac then go in the dumpster for a PC" attitude is appalling.

LEAVE PSYSTAR ALONE!!!

**cries and runs away**

Kraftwerker

Here is my 2cents a computer is a computer they both are able to surf the internet and watch all the porn you want haha.

mricyfire

archer75

While I agree with your previous points, this last bit is unnecessarily......what's the word......assholish?

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

Similarly, the "cheapest buy-in" isn't even a $200 difference, but roughly a $50 difference for anyone who pay full MSRP for a mini.

If you do shop around, the price difference is a whopping $18. YMMV as to if worth two drinks at Starbucks for you to be able to take all of those System Updates without hesitation.

-hh

-hh

(Sorry for any double posts, my first time trying to post.)

drapper2

April 1st was weeks ago... suckers.

binaryspiral

drapper2

Dude...before you post, maybe you should know something about how the Mac works. Some of your statements are half-truths at best and some are just flat out incorrect.

1.) Apple has been shipping a two-button Mighty Mouse for years. Where have you been? As for their notebooks...well, Ctrl+Click is not that hard to understand...

2.) Apple can charge whatever they want for their products. People will continue to buy them. You gotta admit that Apple's design quality is FAR beyond that of their PC competitors. In fact, Dell, HP and a few others seem to enjoy copying their designs and adding their own twist to avoid legal issues. 10% different, anyone? Microsoft?

3.) You CAN choose which OS to boot at startup without going into the Mac OS or Windows.

You hold down the Option key at startup...

As far as the "upgrade" to add Windows...you know, Apple's position is to gain marketshare over Microsoft. Why should they promote the sale of Windows? I'd doubt Microsoft would keep licensing fees that low for Apple to provide a 30/40/50 dollar "upgrade" to add Windows.

4.) If you know anything about computer history, you'd know that this kind of attitude killed IBM's PC hardware sales. This also occurred when Apple allowed clones to be designed by companies like Motorola, PowerComputing, and Daystar. Most of Apple's money goes into research and design. If Apple started making beige box Macs, sure, they could compete. Why should they? I know I don't want to buy a beige box Mac regardless if it contains Mac OS X or not.

You continue to buy your cheapo notebook loaded with an inferior OS. The Mac users don't want your type around anyway. I'm sure the same could be said for the Linux users as well. Go run your Vista trash.

iMouse

imTheKing

More importantly, I can make more direct comparisons as to how applications will perform on those respective platforms as well. While booted into OS/X and using Parallels, I can make direct comparisons between Windows XP loaded there, and other things loaded into equivalently-specced VMs, such as Ubuntu (8.04), or OpenSuSE, or whatever I want to look at at that given time. That makes it possible, for example to assess something like FireFox or Acrobat, or Oo vs MS Office, across a variety of platforms, on one box.

There is currently no entirely legal or sanctioned alternative. There is certainly no current alternative that lets you do this with such little hassle. That's why I wouldn't go near Psystar, even if you do get the thrill that you are somehow "getting away with something", at first. If you're going to go through that much trouble, and assume all the risk anyway, you may as well just build a hackintosh yourself, and at least be assured that it's been done properly. If you want to be able to run the broadest variety of X86 OSes (incl OS/X) seamlessly and with good driver (Bootcamp) or Virtual Machine driver and OS support (Parallels and VMWare), then currently, a genuine Mac of some sort is your best bet.

Mandatory_Field

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

I guess Jobs is snickering over this one.

Kaiser-Machead's LEGO WALL-E

Whatever Apple does though, I hope they keep close control of their hardware and software. It's worked fairly well so far, except for the graphics card thing. I think if they open it up to cloning then we might just end up with a big convoluted mess like the other PC builders.

apeguero

Apple sucks.
Microsoft sucks.
Linux is cool but I still don't use it.

Real men either code their own OS or they quit talking trash about everyone elses.

hooked-on-tronics

hired_geek

Apple charges way too much... but people buy it. People need to understand that they'd better own some apple stock before buying an apple computer, because they're just throwing money away (to apple).

Rodime

SgtMac02

Also this was NOT a comparison of OS's. Seriously stop getting the Vista Ultimate just to add to the price of the laptop and say HAHA its not that different. You get the $1499 Macbook specs for the $1099 Macbook price. You know it. I know it.

Also as a college student you can simply buy Leopard for 40 bucks and install it on any Intel based PC thanks to the wonders of "hacking".

I was talking about specs when it comes to pricing because they are just as important as software; one cannot live without the other.

So in conclusion, Mac needs to make competitively priced laptops. This is probably the most idiotic mentality they have: "We are 6% of the global market so therefore we should charge a premium for our laptops even though they have the same hardware and we verbally stated that our OS is worth $129." Once this happens, I will buy a Mac. Until then, they can go fuck themselves.

daftrok

frigg

frigg

A Puckish Satire of Contemporary Mores

imTheKing

*sheds tear*

shifty_276

1. After you install Windows via Bootcamp, OSX automatically sets the startup disk to be the Windows partition. If it does not then look at the next step.

2. You can set the startup disk (partition) in the Startup Disk System Preference to be either Windows or OSX. Once done, the Mac will boot directly to Windows if it's what you chose. Not OSX.

If you have a Mac then try this yourself and stop spreading wrong info.

My beef with Apple at this time is the F'd up way they decided to put out the new Nvidia Geforce 8800GT. It requires OSX 10.5.2 to be installed for it to work. So if you have a Leopard install disk then it has to be 10.5.2 build or else you get a Kernel panic. I tested this with Apple Care over the phone this weekend where I restarted with the Leopard CD while having the 8800GT card and all I got was a Kernel panic (equivalent of a BSD in Windows world). I tried the same thing but with the ATI X1900XT card and it started up the install routine just fine.

Conclusion, if I ever need to re-install OSX Leopard in my MacPro with the Nvidia Geforce 8800GT then I'm up the F'ing creek! I'd basically have to have either an Nvidia Geforce 7300 or the ATI X1900XT video card in there. I was escalated all the way up to level 3 support in Apple Care and they will be reviewing this with the engineers today and tomorrow to see if a firmware update could be developed or something else to remedy this because I told them it's absolute bullshit that they would totally rule out all of us Mac Pro 1st gen users with the new Nvidia 8800GT video card. They're due to call me back either tomorrow or Wednesday.

So, if you have a 1st Gen MacPro (2006 or 2007) with the new Nvidia Geforce 8800GT video card, then test your system by inserting the Leopard install disk and rebooting holding down C. If you get a Kernel panic then hang on to your old video card for now and call Apple to report your problems so they can hopefully do something about this!!!!

As for Psystar doing this, my opinion is they should at least give some of their profits or something to the OSX86 website or contribute somehow to the OSX86 cause. It's fucked up they should be making money after so many hackers worked so hard to stabilize the OSX86 builds. Believe it or not, OSX86 was an Apple gateway drug for me where it got me hooked on OSX where I dropped my PCs for Macs. Psystar making money on this is kind'a f'd up if you ask me.

apeguero

With Psystar, you still have to pay for OS X, without a prospect of updating it or reinstalling it, but you do save lot of money on hardware. Then if you have a problem, you just head down to the Genius Bar at the Psystar store. Take advantage of their great return and repair policy too. And don't forget to buy PsystarCare to extend your warranty.

Psystar isn't making enough profit margin to provide services like that.

Once I took my MacBook Pro to the Apple Store, they had to send it out for a repair, and I agreed to it. I joked that I'd be in withdrawal, not having the MacBook Pro, so the genius said, "Why don't I just replace the machine?" On another occasion, I saw a teenager at the genius bar frantically search for $30 in his wallet to fix his iPod. He shook like a leaf, and looked three times, just in case it would materialize. The genius replaced his iPod for free. That's where the profit margin goes.

It's Dell, not Apple, that is outrageous. Dell has the same profit margin, but they don't provide the same level of support as Apple does.

I don't think Psystar is a bargain at all. A Mac Mini at the same price has better support, if you aren't a geek or a cybermasochist.

Panu

blackcrayon

Nice troll. You sure work hard at it.

That two button mouse argument is pretty tired. It's been around for years, and it's worthless now that the mighty mouse. i've seen your other posts about 'true' two button whatever that means. Works fine when I boot to windows and need a second button. However when I leave bizzaro land I rarely need that second button, and when I do, it works for me.

The rest of your post proves you're not the kind of customer Apple wants. I'm not sure how old you are, but speaking as someone who was a desktop support tech when Apple opened up their operating system to clone makers it was an unmitigated disaster that almost crippled the company, and support was a nightmare.

It always baffles me how many people seem to think that what ails apple is that they make money on their product and are quite happy at it. Everything you claim they 'have' to do would just hurt their profit margins with no net result.

So they don't get you as a customer... So what? They didn't want you as a customer anyway in the first place.

trekkie

akmarksman

broho

Here's my Psystar take:

As most people have already said, MOST computer people could build this same computer. This company is ripping off those few people who can't do this. Fortunately for Giz readers, we're all dorks, and 100% of us could build an equal machine at 1/4 the dB rating :)

guitarmunkey05

Wilson Rotman

I'll make this brief for you. The "It just works" concept is why Psystar will fail. Once you step away from the tight integration Apple uses with their Macs, you are in the PITA world of trying to make all your hardware compatible and run smoothly with the OS. Apple can charge a "premium" for their machines because they are the only ones successfully doing it.

I'll keep enjoying my MBP, and if you like your PC, then good for you, but I don't recommend hating on Apple around here without even confessing to have used a Mac extensively enough (ownership) to make a proper comparison.

libre4vida

There is some value in running non-Apple OS' on Apple hardware, because their hardware is nice (that's completely subjective and whether or not that's worth the premium you pay is up to you), and very standard. You can load most OS' onto it with no (for me) driver issues. What the value of running OSX is (especially on a non-Apple machine), is a lot harder to define... Maybe it's easier to maintain (which is certainly negated in this instance). It is certainly a much prettier *nix than the others I've seen and that's great if you have a need for a *nix OS (you're probably a developer)... I use Vista (mainly), OSX (not so often) and Ubuntu (hardly ever) on my Mac, and I really couldn't give you one example of any aspect of one of those systems (when configured optimally) which is objectively better than the others. In fact it's funny to see so much commonality between the 3 (and so much bitterness between the supporters)... Vista (ie. Windows), has an edge in having more software available for it, but that doesn't count for much these days as both OSX and Linux can run Windows and/or Windows applications in virtual machines...

The only satisfaction (for me) in having an x86 hackintosh (I did build one once), is to get it to install and boot. Psystar has taken this dubious pleasure away, and left you with a "just works" system that doesn't...

AnONeamus

gmjhowe

The-Joker

Hvedhrungr

"Why is an obviously fly-by-night bunch of shysters being given so much free publicity?"

Yeah.

Sleeper_Service

JohnOB1

Hvedhrungr

I can be lucky enough to save a couple hundred bucks on an inferior machine which has an OS that can't be updated. Stop the presses!

No wonder the usual suspects have to weigh in on extraneous issues- there's nothing shiny enough to merit the adjective "lucky." Patrick's handle is so ironic as to be descriptive of his state of being after achieving said "luck."

lianna_g

AnONeamus

hpsempfi

And on top of that, not only they have lied to take the free press. They also have ripped off the work of others and they are charging money for it.

Jesus Diaz

A) Macbook vs HP dv2700t: 2.4GHz Penryn, 160 GB HDD, 2GB RAM, 80.11n and Bluetooth 2.1EDR, RECOVERY DISKS(extra for HP), Leopard vs Vista Ultimate, 4.5 hrs battery life(Extra again on HP), 3 yrs Warranty.
MB: $1,548.00
HP: $1,547.97 (Literally $0.03 cheaper)

B) MBAir honestly is a luxury machine so there's no reason to compare it

C) MBP 15" vs Dell XPS M1530 (Honestly I'm not sure if you could compare the two b/c the dell isn't using a Penryn processor but here we go) 2.4 GHz C2D (MBP being Penryn while Dell is Merom), 15.4" screen at 1440x900(Dell's is extra for glossy), 2 GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, 802.11n + BT 2.1EDR, 85 WHr battery(again 4.5 hr battery life), 3 yrs Warranty
MBP 15": $2,398.00 (matte or glossy)
Dell XPS: $2,265 matte, $2,415 glossy

D) MBP 17" vs Dell Inspiron 1720/XPS M1730: (Seriously, are you going to compare a 17" MBP to a cheap ass Inspiron, as well as they don't make them anymore? So we'll go with the more comparative XPS line) 2.6 GHz Penryn, NVida 8600M GT vs NVida 8700M GT, No 802.11n option for Dell, Bluetooth 2.0 EDR, 3 Yrs Warranty
MBP 17": $3,448.00
XPS M1730: $3,621

so.... what was that premium again?

Oh and did I mention that the Apple Notebooks all come with FREE diagnostics at the Genius Bar? And FREE reloading of the OS when needed to fix software issues W/O loosing any data? Also Turn Around Times on repairs of usually just 2 days? Oh yeah, one last thing, the Mac's don't come with Bloatware

hpsempfi

cabowah

And none apple users! just admit that you are broke and hate living!

cabowah

No news there -- Lifehacker offers Hackintosh for Dummies tips, after all. But just like jailbreaking your iPhone, if you go off the farm, you're on your own. This being a geek-oriented site, that's not much of an issue. But any civilian who buys an unsupported Psystar box will encounter some nasty surprises.

nojo

It's an even worse idea to post an irrelevant Mac vs. PC comment in a Psystar story -- just as it is in an XP story. Either way, it's trolling.

nojo

The tower looks fine, just like my Lian-Li (and btw, I own 4 Macs).

Those of you who think it's ugly are really sad. Stick to how pretty your computer is and keep cleaning it up not doing anything real with it.

Guess what, my Mac's crash, more horribly than XP. Spinning color wheel of death is more like it. And their cheap bargain bin parts are hilarious. It's like purchasing a Kia for the price of a Benz.

And about how it looks when you boot it up. Personally I LOVE that. I have my Macs setup to bootup in VERBOSE mode all the time. It actually makes sense to see what your computer is doing...instead of just having it look "pretty" and taking it to Starbucks to look cool.

daniel

illiniguy

Oh no they didnt pay for the hack ... never said that.

All i am saying is that apple will shut this joint down as soon as they prove that Psystar is shipping a hacked OSX.

I am not saying that this buisness model is good / bad. I just think its not legal.

Redwraithvienna

Let's see if we can straighten this one out...

I run XP on Parallels -- so in my case, yes, I boot OS X, then XP on top. I don't use Boot Camp, but as others say, it loads Windows directly. And when it does, some think it runs Windows better than traditional PCs.

Also the reason why people want XP is so that they can run the programs Mac can't (especially games).

That'll vary by user, of course. Personally, I need to see how badly Explorer 6 & 7 mangle my websites after I've tuned them in Safari and Firefox.

Oh, and my two-button Mighty Mouse? Trackball sucks as others note, but otherwise I'm quite happy with it.

nojo

This is Gizmodo, you know, unnaturally in love with shiny new toys?!?!

Stop drinking the haterade, Psystar may equal Hackintosh, but they're just asking to be paid for doing the work for you, if it's a good idea, they will survive, otherwise they will disappear.

One aspect of this that people are missing, the operating system is not that dependent on official hardware.

skulldriveshaft

GrimaceXL

1) With the Genius Bar at my local Apple Store (Willow Bend, Plano, TX), if ever have any problems with my Mac, all I have to do is set up an appointment (much easier and better than it sounds) and I get a FREE diagnosis on the spot in usually 15-25 mins, rather than PC repair places with take days for a diagnosis and usually will cost $100+

2) When it does need repairs, they're always covered by the warranty(unless you break something yourself) and I get the computer back in roughly 1-2 days fully working(I've seen a couple where they're able to get it back to a customer in about 2 hrs)

3) If it is out of warranty, they usually have a reduced, flat rate repair (roughly $320 for my PBG4) where they'll send it off to a Depot repair facility where they fix whatever needs to be replaced for that $320. What PC manufacturer does that?

So, given all that, I'm willing to pay an extra $200-$300 for that level of customer service. (Plus another 2 yrs of warranty is usually MUCH cheaper than that flat rate repair so you'd almost be stupid to not get it.)

hpsempfi

They're using code/tools from the OSx86 project, but that doesn't mean that they're charging you for that code.

My point is, without an itemized list, statements such as "he paid for the OSx86 project" are misguided.

He paid for hardware, he paid for them to assemble hardware, he paid for the OS, he paid for them to install the OS. He paid for them to install a hack.

But, did he actually pay for the hack itself.

lordargent

2) So youre saying that these computers are as good as the mac notebooks because they have the same numbers associated with them on paper? It's called quality dude. Get a Mac and you'll understand.

3) I have not personally used bootcamp so I won't comment on how easy it is to boot directly into Windows on a Mac. I would just be speculating. How much experience do you have using bootcamp?

4) I agree that if Apple could release an OSX that worked on all computers, Microsoft would be screwed. The problem is that it might make OSX as unstable as Windows, thus defeating the purpose to some extent.

And I'm not just defending my purchase as the Macbook I'm currently typing on was a gift :P

eFrisk

I don't know where you're doing the BTO, but similarly specced Macbook and a dv2700t comes out to be about the same price for me at HP's online store:

OS: Vista Business / OSX Leopard (cuz you really can't compare Leopard with Home Premium)
Proc: T8100 2.1GHz
Display: 14.1 / 13.3, same REZ
Memory: 2GB / 2GB (granted, you get "free upgrade" to 3GB with HP
Graphics: X3100
Builtin webcam, wireless
HDD: 120GB
Optical: SUperMulti DVD-R/W/DL

HP: $1168 after $100 rebate
Macbook: $1199

And for that you get something that is heavier, bulkier, and a design that many (but not all!) people would consider definitely uglier than the Macbook.

Now, I won't criticize the choice of people who would, looking at these specs, choose the HP. After all, the largest deciding factor in a duel like this would definitely be the OS that runs atop it.

So, really, no, that certainly was not where the fun began. It was pretty boring finding out what I already knew.

Apple is now an Intel/PC maker. Do they charge a premium over their great design and a fantastic OS that runs on their machines (the profits from which, in case you are too ignorant to know, and unlike any other PC maker out there, contribute entirely to the the R&D of said OS)?

Yes they do.

But is the premium going to be obscenely large like some asshats try to claim?

Abso-fucking-lutely not.

Dearhaw

seconded.

I want to buy a Psystart Xbox 360 with OS X installed so that you wouldn't be able to play so many games. We "Mac people" hate games, and that's why even want our Xbox to have a non-gamer friendly platfrom.

Actually, to be on the safe side, better off selling tv.

moukkis

as MarkC rightly stated all you have to press is option and then choose.

and by the way i prefer using the trackpad to finger tap as my right click, i find it awquard on a windows machine now yes it took some time to get used to it all of about 30 seconds.

if Apple released a Pc version of OSX it would make the OS harder to control and there would be hardware conflicts with the OS having Apple contro the Os eliminated this problem becuase they know exactly what is inside each machine and how they can use that hardware to its full effect within the OS.
how many times have you got a new graphics card or something like that and had to spend hours trying to get it to install and do what it says it will do on the box well i have a few friends who have.

Let Apple control the hardware.

Macwillis

Seriously, why are there so many offensive asshole Apple haters on this website? Psychologically, is it to stoke that sense of belonging to a group that considers itself better than the "other" group for no other reasons than those that they deem important, but are too insecure to believe in themselves so they seek to legitimate their choices by bashing the other group and soliciting fellow supporters?

The only place I've seen such foaming offensiveness and asshat behavior was... well, about every other goddamn blog/message board/newsgroup/etc., where Apple/PC/MS fanboys duel it out.

"I'll stick with my PC laptop, thanks very much... it's a Dell by the way."

Good. And I'll stick with my Macbook. It's an Apple, btw.

See, that was simple, wasn't it? You keep your hands on your dick, I'll keep my hands on mine. As long as you don't try to touch my dick, I'm fine with you, even if you're into that shit.

Dearhaw

on :3) No, on a Mac you cannot have the option to when you push the ON button it loads Windows. You HAVE to load Mac OSX first and THEN load Windows XP. Also the reason why people want XP is so that they can run the programs Mac can't (especially games). And having that option for cheap on Macs bridges the gap. Why get a PC when you can run Windows AND Mac OSX on a Mac for similar prices (hopefully).

All you have to do, if you have bootcamp installed is hold the option key.. then you can boot into windows..

Seriously, if you're going to post, either get a brain, or do the research.. You just make yourself sounds like an idiot...

MarkC

Paradise

And just as seriously, why limit your criticism to one side? I've seen plenty of boring, irrelevant comments from both sides of the fence, the cumulative effect of which is to limit my reading pleasure.

Attack if you must, gang, but please try to make it interesting. We already know the stereotypes both ways.

nojo

akmarksman

1) I meant a DEFINITIVE second button. Yes there is secondary click which is effective, but then again so is single click also on the trackpad. So why have a button in the first place? Mainly its familiarity. Some people like the definitive click and sometimes it is preferred, like if you are using the trackpad to move along and don't feel like lifting your fingers from it just to right click. Small things like that. And the Mighty Mouse SUUUCCCKS because it just feels like one giant button and isn't as responsive as a TRUE two button mouse.

2) This is where the fun begins:

Challenging Macbook: HP Pavilion dv2700t. The only difference is that it has a 14.1" screen instead of 13.3", it weighs 0.29 lbs more and less than 1/2 inch bigger in L,W and D. You can customize it with 2.4 GHz CPU, 3 GB DD2 RAM, X3100 GPU, 802.11 a/b/g/n, Bluetooth, webcam, microphone, 120 GB HDD, 8X DVD Burner, and a 12 cell battery giving it 7 hours battery life, and its price is $1083.99. If you want a 160 GB HDD, add 25 bucks. If you want 250 GB DD, add 75 bucks.

Challenging Macbook Air: ...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Challenging Macbook Pro 15": Dell XPS M1530. Same specifications as $2499 MBP 15" but with 256 MB 8600M GT so to compensate the M1530 has 3 GB RAM. Price: $2013.

Challenging Macbook Pro 17": Dell Inspiron 1720. Same specs but with 256 MB 8600M GT so to compensate the 1720 has 3 GB RAM. Also has 1080p screen. Price: $1638.

To be fair none of these have Firewire ports.

3) No, on a Mac you cannot have the option to when you push the ON button it loads Windows. You HAVE to load Mac OSX first and THEN load Windows XP. Also the reason why people want XP is so that they can run the programs Mac can't (especially games). And having that option for cheap on Macs bridges the gap. Why get a PC when you can run Windows AND Mac OSX on a Mac for similar prices (hopefully).

4) OSX for PCs as a legal option and being able to choose that when customizing an HP/Dell/whatever computer. Hell would freeze over. Pigs will fly. Microsoft will finally be challenged in the OS market. And that will be the day I buy a Mac.

daftrok

Paradise

They at Phystar came up with a scheme but quickly realized it had touched upon a touchy subject, ha, one that has people taking pictures of residences and businesses.

Decide there may be something to this after all of the publicity, saw dollar signs but needed make the scheme even more elaborate.

And have to.... on the fly, put this piece of crap together!! Which is just a modified noisy mother in which a high school kid could have built, being that the technology was already there.

Until I see the review of one in Computer World and tinker with one at BestBuy, I am not going to believe a video, sent in by whom??, showing what??

Really folks, what have you seen, what have you heard? What?

Review the Phystar articles going back on this site and you will see, overseas credit card charges at $9.99 each 40 something odd times. WHEN have you EVER heard of such crap out of a reputable company here in the US??

This is so shady that I cannot believe people are giving this company personal information!!

Kevin

The argument that "some don't have the hardware for Hackintosh" is ridiculous. With Pystar you HAVE to buy all new hardware.

OSx86 is easy now. You buy a known compatible motherboard, and there you have it.

lifterus

one thing anyone shall never buy is this sort of illegal stuff, similar to smoking cannabis or buying a fake chinese iphone and show to your friends, you'll just be laughed at!

abrli

cylonite

Seriously, why are there so many defensive fanboys on this website? Psychologically, is it to stoke that sense of belonging to a group that considers itself elite to simple "PC guys"?

I'll stick with my PC laptop, thanks very much... it's a Dell by the way.

The only other place I've seen sniveling defensiveness and snooty behavior was at the local track when the Ferrari guys came out to show us Subaru guys a thing or two. We still cleaned up 1st to 12th place.

Migo

cloudnine

maztec

but really. WTF? G5 Xserves are quieter than that. and G5 Xserves are ridiculously laughably loud and meant for a server room.

x23

gmjhowe

AJ_Syrinx

You pay for a Leopard copy so that it looks legit, but they are still using the OSx86 project.

Thats also the reason why you cant do your own reinstall of the system.

And i bet that Apple is just now waiting until they get their machine and then sue the hell out of those guys for exactly this.

Redwraithvienna

ninjatales

alpayerturkmen

nyaz

shifty_276

AlanIn4D

tensenki

schmere

yeah, and don't piss off the fanboys!

razzjunk

Mongoose

Unless you're looking at an invoice that specifically lists it, how do you know that they charged anything for OSx86?

Perhaps they only charged for the hardware and an install fee.

/when you buy a computer preloaded with linux or unbuntu, is there a charge for the OS. IR is it just hardware and an install fee.

lordargent

oat

sonburn

1) The Mighty Mouse is technically a 4 button mouse, programmable (limited to a specific list of functions), out of the box. The trackpad on every notebook does primary and secondary click, too. It's implementation is more use-friendly than any PC notebook I've used that uses two individual buttons. Two fingers on the trackpad, click, done. No contortion, and it doesn't matter how fat your fingers are, it works. Did I mention how well the scrolling and gestures work?
- DO YOUR RESEARCH

2) The pricing could come down a little, but compared to a PC where I've got port conflicts, and general hardware problems from things not talking to each other properly, and the fact I can go buy a Mac that doesn't suffer these issues due to the manufacturer only needing to provide OS support for machines they've configured, I'm happy to pay a little more and get something that works, as well as use Mac software, which also just works. Factor software, and long term cost of ownership of any PC to a general user (not someone who is a tech head, I'm talking your everyday user) and the Mac is a bargain.

3) Apple does offer true dual OS. As others have mentioned, you obviously like to rant before you research.

4) As others and myself have made light of, the situation of an OS having to support a billion different devices or configurations, versus an OS running rightly integrated to the specific hardware configuration is one of the big differences between a Mac and a PC. The day Apple release the Mac OS to the PC world is the day I stillll buy Apple configured hardware, as it will be better supported than having to rely on vendors writing drivers correctly.

builtforsin

I'd choose my single trackpad button with two-fingered clicking and scrolling on my MacBook over the 4 awkward trackpad buttons on my HP laptop any day of the week.

Trackpad different.

LagunaSol

Go ahead, live dangerously. Download a combo updater, see what happens...

nojo

theorie