AbigailScrofa

@XM8500 wrote: "it doesn't cost that much money to get studio quality gear and get a really good sounding recording these days."
You mean "OK-sounding recording". Really good takes a room that lucked into great acoustics, a recording engineer with a large collection of microphones and a near-mystical ability to set up the right ones, and then a dedication to quality at every step of the way thereafter. The recording and mixing equipment itself has got cheaper, but greatness is still a costly process demanding expertise.

skierpage

perhaps you are referring to the Apple iTMS bitrates... but this album isn't on iTMS. so your rant begs relevance.

x23

People like me, who actually care about quality and are sick of the way music is being destroyed thanks to Apple and their crappy bit rates everyone and their mother is buying into. We are progressing in technological innovation, yet audio fidelity is moving BACKWARDS.

Skorpius

XM8500

cool. doesn't look like it does that on the zune. which format is on your ipod?

gstar

kudos to trent reznor. I personally dont really get his angle on music but i know he is very popular in certain circles. however if he is making absolutely no money off this album im wondering how he is going to buy bread and pay his electric bill. obviously Im just gassing here Im sure trent makes more money in a day than I do in a month.

pevans34

I can't see why one wold waffle on this. It's the first time I have seen an album put together so well, with cover and track art, lyrics that float on the art (if you have an iPod), and additional tagging and meta information that most artists do not exploit.

DeadWriter

kylo4

jbhitter24

ItsRabid

Not to mention that given the choice between inconvenient but better than CD sounding formats like SACD (which did sound more like "master quality") or worse than CD sounding formats like MP3 that were a million times more convenient, worse sounding but more convenient won - and wins - every time.

So I wouldn't say it's a consensus forming in the pro audio community for DSD or similar formats. It's more like the 7 stages of grief as you advance a project through processing, mastering, compression, and distribution:

- Shock
- Denial
- Anger
- Bargaining
- Guilt
- Depression
- Acceptance

frigg

The fact is that passionate, creative artists do it because they love it - and its what they want to do. To follow their passion they will find a way to make a living, just as somebody who loves dealing with people finds a job in retail, someone who loves technology writes a tech blog or works in IT department, people who love to cook food work as chefs etc.

Those who will lose are the no-talent star celebs whose comrades are in it as a venture business with the goal of making as much money as possible. To them I say good riddance.

Fierock

pomophobe

Saul William's release provided the user with options, free download 192 kbps. Or $5 for lossless, or higher quality MP3's.

I agree with Trent Reznor on their first model, that it felt like a bait and switch, and showed no committment to better the relationship with their fans, but was a half relaized idea, that fell short of being ideal. Mostly because I paid $15 (CDN) for the download and wasn't even provided artwork :P

What NIN is doing right is considering the audience and the variable of quality, who is listening and how they may want to listen to the album.

And despite the physical release later this year, it will still be under a creative commons, and will still be self-released. Unlike Radiohead's bid to release it CD format, only after they've signed to another label, and reset up their distribution network.

pomophobe

A thriving low budget scene doesn't erase the value of bigger budget productions as well. Would you argue, for example, that just because you can make your own video with your buddy's camcorder and upload it to Youtube, all movies should be free, and there should never be another blockbuster? Everyone's loving Iron Man at the Giz, but if everyone got to see it for free, it would not exist.

Unless you value music less than film, why is it OK to make a 100 million dollar movie and charge people to see it, but all music should be cheaply produced and freely distributed?

frigg

Yes, individual tracks are usually recorded at 24/96. But there's concern on pro-audio boards like Gearslutz.com that something gets lost during final mixdown of all those tracks. This may not be audiophile wankery, especially when some albums are still mixed on an analog mixer with analog outboard effects processing. There's a fascinating interview with Pete Townsend where he talks about trying to capture that sound before it gets f***ed in the conversion to CD quality.

A consensus is building in pro audio that the best format for capturing the final mix is not 96/24 or even DVD-Audio's 192 kHz/24-bit, but the DSD (Direct Stream Digital) format at 5.8 MHz. The Korg MR-1000 DSD recorder is getting rave reviews both for top-quality 2-channel location recording and as the ultimate digital archiver. Another possible format is DXD, a floating-point format.

I blogged about this in the context of digitizing my vinyl collection. I only want to do it once in a future-proof format. But if there's a digital archive format, I can just acquire someone else's digitization of the master recording. I'd like to buy that file from the musician, but most musicians don't own their masters — back to bitching at the evil record companies.

skierpage

Zlevee

XM8500

1) Home studios, either you record yourself (like my band does) or you have a good friend willing to help you out. As a band you should work on recording yourself anyway, it brings you closer to having your music sound exactly as you envisioned it.

2) You play those shows (like ninjamurf said) and use that money to pay a studio to record you.

XM8500

I hope you all are reading that NIN is also selling this new album on CD later this year.

Does that suddenly make this shitty? I think not, but then again I don't understand what the problem was with Radiohead's release.

Zlevee

giyad

And yeah, I'm still waiting for my download link for this album as well... 4 hours and counting also.

Spaztrick

[files.filefront.com]

The mirror shouldn't be a legal problem since it's free.

violentsingalong

Just asking...

spolyar

Now if only way I could find a way to get that 24/96 to my stereo. Any easy way to easily burn a DVD-Audio or SACD?

jwardell

bitgod

NoStyle

JimK

Jimbuck

Now I can't get a link for thsi either. I've tried four different email accounts and none of them have received the promised "momentarily" sent email.

4 hours and counting...

This is the flaw in the digital model; TR has hired idiots to run his distribution side. Don't hire idiots to be the sole point of contact for your fanbase, artists.

@aegies - His former labels are not the entire reason he's semi-broke. Yes, he got screwed over the years but still made millions. His manager, who he trusted implicitly, bilked, stole and mismanaged his money and left him high and dry.

JimK

Actually he's not that rich. He has very little left from his previous period with TVT/Interscope. His career is a quintessential example of an artist getting boned repeatedly by his label financially.

aegies

[www.wired.com]

Jimbuck

You should think befoire posting.

pomophobe

Rususeruru

This is actually how it is SUPPOSED to work people. Musicians have been making a living for hundreds (if not thousands of years.) How? By PLAYING their music. You want my money? Perform for it. Don't sit in a basement, record some one off, and then expect to get rich. That was the business model pushed upon us over the last 50+ years because they could. (And back when there were serious manufacturing and distribution costs associated with getting that music out there, it worked, sort of.) Those days are over. Perform for me and I will give you money. Give me your CD and let me listen to your music. That way I can decide whether or not I will attend your performance. (If ONLY the medieval musicians had the luxury of this kind of distribution!) CD's (or MP3's or whatever) should be your advertisement. Nothing more. Let me hear it. Is it good? If so, I'll see you when you come to town. Only have one good song out of 20? Sorry, better luck next time.

In medieval times minstrels would walk through the town playing little ditties about Jack and Diane. Hoping that the people would hear it and follow them to the parade grounds, town square, etc. Where they would then give them money as they played. Walking through town was their CD. Playing at the town square was their concert. Hook them, reel them in, make a small stipend from each one. Now, with the digital age and internet distribution, their "walking through town" reaches MILLIONS of people and their "playing at the town square" pays them MILLIONS of dollars if they attract the right following. That is the musicians business model. This experiment we've been running for the past 50 years or so worked while it lasted. Fortunately for us...it won't last much longer.

ninjamurf

chillywilly

Kricket

I haven't heard the rest of the tracks, but the first one I sampled wasn't all that great... More of the same. I liked the Ghosts for the most part as they were not all the same NIN as other recordings.

So maybe 'Free' is the right price for this collection. Hmm.

Marco

Jimbuck

The FLAC is just your 16/44 wave files. You can take those and get the maximum quality possible from a standard CD. If you need higher quality, go with the 1.2gb 24/96, but the jump to 1.2gb really isn't that ridiculous.

unc2701

smitherssocal

iSee

smitherssocal

my rant is directed at nine inch nails not necessarily because they sold out - they (he) actually just put out a bunch of mediocre records. the point is that people hailing this as some sort of watershed event are retards. what radiohead did with a legitimately great album was new, and almost reasonable - but they screwed it up by turning it into a gimmick, just as nin is doing now, instead of just putting out a record at a price normal people would find refreshingly acceptable for a good album.

just charge a reasonable amount for the music. bypass the record label if you will, all the better (although not all record labels are shit). but just because some artists can afford to put out a free album (as a business decision, this very likely makes sense for mr reznor) doesn't mean this is a good thing. a lot of great music doesn't get made because artists are too busy working to earn a living. a lot of great music does get made because small record labels will give these artists a means to free up enough time to put something together. and there's a risk involved for the record label, as well, by the way.

pferde_schwanz

[home.comcast.net]

DVD-Audio FTW :)

tsolfan

frigg

fostina1

no we are not. no one records at 192. thats lame and waaaay to CPU intensive with plugins. 24/96 is standard and a lot of people record at 24/48 and 24/44.1.

thedommer

@csjk789:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Jesus Diaz

TheCyberBob

Mr. Reznor is my new hero.

Airport_Whiskey

No question the traditional record label model is a dinosaur in death throes after the internet meteor obliterated its comfortable little ecosystem, but there has to be a way for musicians to be able to profit from their work to support what they do and encourage innovation, same as any other field. And selling t-shirts doesn't count, any more than you would expect Apple to give away its computers and profit from selling T-shirts with an Apple logo on them and charging admission for keynotes. Although.... maybe that would work...

Being a musician in medieval times meant wondering the countryside and performing as a juggling clown along with singing your songs. It's one thing to get rid of DRM, the RIAA, and conventional record labels. It's another to turn recording artists back into medieval jongleurs.

frigg

Definition - Visual Quality
Fidelity - Audible Quality

Dammit.

csjk789

Not that NIN are often described as "dancable", but that's the miracle of the Pear cables.

wjousts

Downloading when I get home from class (damned bandwidth monitoring)

HotFootMcCook

HotFootMcCook

I know that there are more version than just the wave files, i'm download the flac version now. I was just stating who would really download the wave files when there 1.2gb unless your in south korea or japan

they could have had the wave files anywhere between the

M4A apple lossless (263 mb)
and
high definition WAVE 24/96 (1.2 gb)

that is a huge jump in file size when they could have had the files with a little less quality and could have been under 1 gb

utube2007

There was another article a few years back in wired about 5 online bands that actually made a ridiculous amount of money selling just online. Can't find the article online though. Must be a back issue.

TheCyberBob

Kaiser-Machead's Chips Ahoy!

It doesn't mean there aren't a lot of trendy bands without much talent, they just aren't necessarily sell outs.

GOKOR

But what I see a lot online is the attitude that music (or TV shows or software or movies) should be completely free, and available for download without compensation to the creators. Sure, artists do what they do for the love of music (or art or coding or whatever), but at the same time they should be able to make a living and pay bills.

Dirk

Look at Does it Offend You, Yeah. for a similar model, just applied to their profile. All they need is a slightly better programmer, and designer and they have a method that might work better.

$5 download for a full length, with an embedded sample player would be more practicle for younger bands, and touring under bands with a larger audience.

While what NIN is doing may be idealism in your perspective. It's practical for NIN, and that's what matters to them.

Label's should die. Physical distribution only... however, Artist Management (CAA, William Morris, Rebel Waltz) could become the next form of Record label. Or "industry".

pomophobe

All that said -- kudos to NIN for allowing us to get their music and bucking the RIAA. It is nice when we can have our cake and ravenously consume it.

Monty

in the day of the internet, the RIAA and the established music consortium as it is is just stupid. people want choice and freedom, not crap shoved down their throats at a cost.

phantam

I also enjoy how you've read this as only 24/96... "You can also choose from high-quality MP3s, FLAC lossless and M4A lossless."

Doy.

pomophobe

More NIN... more pertussis.

scarbrtj

the RIAA are f*cking idiots

NiN is the example of what music should be, no instead we get britney and her antics, and a bunch of wanna-be artists that sell 20$ cd's because 1 song on the cd happens to be decent.

NiN 4ocks!

phantam

most musicians cannot, alas, afford to make music "just because they enjoy it" - in fact as far as i'm concerned only the shitty ones who've sold out can.

so thanks nin for making yet another crappy album and securing praise not for the quality of the music but for the gimmicky free distribution of it.

i'm with viperborg.

pferde_schwanz

ViperBorg

I have a new found respect for them AND Radiohead.

Atsumi

I get the point of lossless and stuff but for real 1.2 gb imagine if everybody ripped music at 24bit 96khz audio we'd all need petabyte hard drives.

How many people honest have music thats 24bit 96khz audio

utube2007

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

GOKOR

GOKOR

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

frigg

Dirk

reddingofish

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

NIN pwns.

FinalValgas

Especially seeing as we're all recording at 192khz nowadays.

6d617474

bms

weatherman

hmooby