@SigmundTheSeaMonster: Rage much? You can dish out the troll comments, but can't take them?
Comparing MSFT and AAPL is like comparing apples and oranges with the way their balance sheet is structured, how revenues flow in, and what type of shareholders they have.
What if Microsoft really used their marketing money for something more sinister, like buying out Justin Long and John Hodgman, then making them do complete riffs of the Apple "Get a Mac" campaign?
Hmm... Bill Gates has sure gained a lot of weight and lost all his hair. Chris Liddell seems to have taken to using glasses, and reversed his receding hairline somehow.
In fact, our marketing is so bad that you don't see a lot of commercials for our products - or at least not as many as for Apple - and because of that, we still are the OS of choice for the vast majority of computer systems out there, including not only the business sector, but also on other platforms like display systems and ATMs. Clearly, we have failed to adequately penetrate and saturate the market as our market share is still sub-100%.
And I understand that you're upset about Apple making gains in computer sales. It has been especially horrible for us, given the fact that because of Boot Camp, every Mac is a potential sale of Windows. There's nothing worse for Microsoft than being able to have every computer be a potential install of Windows and we certainly will be looking to fix that.
And yes, we need to be like Apple and spend $500m per year on marketing to gain an additional half-percent of market share in the OS market because, if we don't, at this rate Apple may overtake us in 50 years.
I thank you for your astute comparison of our company - a software company - to Apple - a hardware company.
@OMG! Ponies!: It's not because people choose to have windows that they dominate, it's that it comes as standard on 99% of PCs; that's why they don't need to market their product heavily.
When you're in a bar and you order a 'coke' you're generally not choosing Coca Cola or Pepsi; just whatever that bar carries. This is why Coca Cola and Pepsi find it very hard to gauge the effectiveness of their advertising, and instead 'blindly' market.
@OMG! Ponies!: Mr. Ballmer as a long time investor in your company there is only one thing that matters to me and that is the share price. Over the past 5 years MSFT share price has been stagnant. It just hovers around the $20-$30 range. It doesn't matter if your operating system is installed on every computer. If it the share price stays the same then everything was for nought. In 50 years when Apple overtakes us, what will the share price be? (Gates covers the microphone and leans towards Ballmer and instructs him not to answer the question)
I could care less about market share. For God's sake man you sound like the guys from Nokia. For the company that you try your best to belittle so much their stock price continues to climb the charts. Why is that so? You know what I am done talking with you...look at yourself getting all hot and sweaty. (Looks to my left) Mr. Gates, what can be done to shake things up and get that warm and fuzzy feeling MSFT used to have when (pauses and lowers voice) you were at the helm.
I think Steve is doing an admirable job but its not translating into much. Apple has "it" and is getting Wall Street to drink their Kool-Aid. Right now our Kool-Aid is tasting a bit bitter and needs more sugar. You feel me?
One more thing (sternly looks back at Steve) If Microsoft isn't a hardware company, then where the fuck do I send my Xbox to when it craps out on me? I guess that Apple outsources another company to write the software that powers the bevy of devices they sell. As I speak today MSFT and AAPL are a hardware AND software company. Balmer open your eyes and get with the program!
@pdditty: Well if you're a long-term investor, then you undoubtedly know that Microsoft also has a higher market cap than Apple, a better P/E ratio, generates more revenue, has a better profit margin, delivers a better return on equity, and it pays dividends, unlike Apple. You also undoubtedly noticed that your shares of Microsoft have split more often than those of Apple.
I understand you don't like our prime-time ads. But those aren't our only ads; we also have our ads on the news programs for our enterprise solutions. Which is why we are still dominating our main competitor, SAP.
You undoubtedly know that our stock is traded on the NASDAQ classified as "Technology/Software" and you know we compete with not only SAP, but also Oracle. And you know that Apple is considered to be a hardware company and its competitors are Dell, HP, Toshiba, and Lenovo.
In fact, you, as a prudent investor, no doubt understand that Microsoft and Apple, in fact, have a symbiotic relationship. You understand that our licenses are sold in bulk to the PC OEMs and for retail to people buying a copy of Windows for a Mac. Which people do.
Being a long-term investor, this is all stuff you know. Because if you only invest based on the share price and the niftiness of an ad campaign, then you're not much of an investor.
So whose dividends would you rather have? Ours or Apple's?
@UnderLoK: You damn northerners. When will you learn? This is how the conversation has to go at a restaurant:
"What can I get ya'll?"
"I'll have a coke."
"What kind?"
"Sprite."
@Kaiser-Machead: maybe that's true, but look at how many sub-1k PCs there are out there. people don't have the bank to spend $1k+ on an apple, and if they've never used an apple, they don't see what the hype is about. so... save $500, or buy a mac?
@Kaiser-Machead: What's considered high end though? Considering that Macbooks start at 1k when does that cross the line into high-end? A good Windows desktop is usually about $1.5k but I don't really think that's considered high end and I would guess that most Mac sales are in the $1.5k range. I doubt he's calling all Mac sales as high-end, probably just upwards of $2000, maybe even more. And when you start getting to those numbers you are talking about gaming rigs which Microsoft goes unchallenged. It really depends on where he draws the line to see where he gets the numbers from.
@Kaiser-Machead: Right..because people that buy very expensive PC's 99% of the time...custom build them
or buy something cheap at the store then upgrade Video cards, Hard Drives ETC.
Apple folks don't normally care about any kind of hardware updgrading, and the way Apple's are built now, I don't even know if you can upgrade them.
@CommentingpointlesslyisMeh: I don't know where this notion came from, but yes Macs can be upgraded. The iMac and mac mini are similar to a laptop in this regard but people have even upgraded the processor in these machines. Proper towers like the powermac and mac pro are like any other computer for upgrades
@thechansen: I think the point is that there's less of a gain for doing so. Consumers who talk about upgrading are usually gamers who are keeping their machines current for PC games. Most games are made with Windows in mind so most people who are serious gamers own a PC of some type. You won't often find yourself needing to upgrade a Mac because it's fine as is for a few years for what it is mostly used for.
The Powermac and Mac Pro are a different story. They are work horse computers that most consumers don't even know exist. When you are doing heavy work that these are for such as graphic design or CAD programs some times you need to upgrade when new software becomes available. Their design is such that they are easy to upgrade to cater to these type of people.
The consumer level Mac's don't value ease of access like these ones do, they value style above it. The iMac, MacMini and the laptop lines are all harder to expand because as I said before there is not much of a need to. When you can convince consumers that what you are selling is going to be fine as is you can spend more time on styling the products and making them in more unorthodox styles than the Mac Pro.
So yes, it is possible to upgrade consumer level Macs. Is it easy? Not really. Is it even very necessary? No.
@Maori_Yelir: Apple's laptop line up have to be the easiest laptops in the world to upgrade. I find that statement to be 100% false. You could be at a Gump level of intellect and still be able to upgrade the RAM and hard disk drive.
Crunching numbers on this green house, I reckon $60k plus a generous $10k maintenance allowance for the power system over the years it takes to recoup the losses.
Taking a true-cost approach, I'll ignore subsidies, though that certainly cuts the time in half for early buyers.
Pulling $180 per month out of my butt as an estimate for conventional power, I come up with about 32 years to pay off the difference. Which... is actually pretty good aside from the pile of Li-ion and silicon waste left at end-of-life.
I think what Ballmer fails to realize is that people really do want what Apple is selling. I support approximately 100 PCs at my work. While I certainly appreciate a lot of what Microsoft offers (MS Office and Exchange being their two strongest points) there are times when I just wonder why their system is so darn bloated and complicated.
While I have to run and support Windows XP boxes at work at home I'm running Linux and OSX.
Another thing I've noticed is the general trend towards people wanting their computer to be more of an appliance. This unfortunately leaves Linux out for most applications (except for specialized uses like Netbooks) but the ease of use on a Mac is what many people are willing to pay that extra money for. Heck, there wouldn't be Hackintoshes out there if people didn't want to emulate the Mac.
Back in the mid 90s when I started learning my craft, Windows was hands down the best choice over Mac despite all the flaws of Win 95. Today the tides have changed and if price is equal for most home uses outside of gaming, OSX wins. #steveballmer
Edited by psychonaut2021:That's Mr Psychonaut to you! at 11/06/09 1:50 PM
psychonaut2021:That's Mr Psychonaut to you! was starred
psychonaut2021:That's Mr Psychonaut to you! was unstarred
I say this as someone who is very, very, wary of using Google for everything:
It's true. Responding to Ballmer quotes is intensely difficult.
Sometimes he outright shoots his mouth off, such as when talking about Winmo 7 or Blu Ray on the 360.
Other times his statements regarding the US economy are cryptic for anyone hoping to see real leadership from CEO's instead of investor-speak for status quo.
He's a terrible CEO, in charge of a company that I actually like. Bill Gates at least saw the big picture, allocated resources, and followed through on his vision. Every time.
The only time I think it's apt to take Ballmer seriously is the one time NO ONE took him seriously. When he was shouting "developers! Developers!" Well, that's remarkably true now, from app stores to Mozilla add-ons, the world belongs to developers and Google developers.
Geez. I just Googled "bong air filter." Nothing like Rothman's (again) patentable idea, but I did discover the kids are putting HEPA filters in their bongs these days. Psh. They're missing all the good stuff. #gizmodoremainders
@Rejexted: Probably precisely why they got the DoE grant. An 11x improvement in how much energy you can store per amount of weight greatly improves the outlook on electric vehicles if it can be scaled up.
Plus... screw rocket motorcycles. How bout an electric one with so much power it throws you into the next state? #gizmodoremainders
So somehow, in the minds of an analyst, a 234% increase is wiped by a 6% decrease? That's enough to declare it "mixed"?
Following the writing of this report, the analysts blew $5,000 on hookers and coke. Then they found some spare change under the couch. Their cash flow position for the evening was declared "mixed".
11/20/09
AAPL-$199.43
nuff said.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
You just don't get my message. STFU.
I bet you think that is a stock symbol too.
(If you see philbo17 above, market cap, profit/loss... his makes sense.)
11/20/09
Maybe I should have asked, "How much did you lose on these two companies?"
11/20/09
Number of outstanding shares:
MSFT- 8.88 Billion
AAPL- 900.68 Million
Makes sense now, doesn't it?
11/20/09
Comparing MSFT and AAPL is like comparing apples and oranges with the way their balance sheet is structured, how revenues flow in, and what type of shareholders they have.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
In fact, our marketing is so bad that you don't see a lot of commercials for our products - or at least not as many as for Apple - and because of that, we still are the OS of choice for the vast majority of computer systems out there, including not only the business sector, but also on other platforms like display systems and ATMs. Clearly, we have failed to adequately penetrate and saturate the market as our market share is still sub-100%.
And I understand that you're upset about Apple making gains in computer sales. It has been especially horrible for us, given the fact that because of Boot Camp, every Mac is a potential sale of Windows. There's nothing worse for Microsoft than being able to have every computer be a potential install of Windows and we certainly will be looking to fix that.
And yes, we need to be like Apple and spend $500m per year on marketing to gain an additional half-percent of market share in the OS market because, if we don't, at this rate Apple may overtake us in 50 years.
I thank you for your astute comparison of our company - a software company - to Apple - a hardware company.
Now sit down, shut up, and enjoy your dividends.
11/20/09
When you're in a bar and you order a 'coke' you're generally not choosing Coca Cola or Pepsi; just whatever that bar carries. This is why Coca Cola and Pepsi find it very hard to gauge the effectiveness of their advertising, and instead 'blindly' market.
11/20/09
Coke=Soft Drink
11/20/09
11/20/09
I could care less about market share. For God's sake man you sound like the guys from Nokia. For the company that you try your best to belittle so much their stock price continues to climb the charts. Why is that so? You know what I am done talking with you...look at yourself getting all hot and sweaty. (Looks to my left) Mr. Gates, what can be done to shake things up and get that warm and fuzzy feeling MSFT used to have when (pauses and lowers voice) you were at the helm.
I think Steve is doing an admirable job but its not translating into much. Apple has "it" and is getting Wall Street to drink their Kool-Aid. Right now our Kool-Aid is tasting a bit bitter and needs more sugar. You feel me?
One more thing (sternly looks back at Steve) If Microsoft isn't a hardware company, then where the fuck do I send my Xbox to when it craps out on me? I guess that Apple outsources another company to write the software that powers the bevy of devices they sell. As I speak today MSFT and AAPL are a hardware AND software company. Balmer open your eyes and get with the program!
11/20/09
I understand you don't like our prime-time ads. But those aren't our only ads; we also have our ads on the news programs for our enterprise solutions. Which is why we are still dominating our main competitor, SAP.
You undoubtedly know that our stock is traded on the NASDAQ classified as "Technology/Software" and you know we compete with not only SAP, but also Oracle. And you know that Apple is considered to be a hardware company and its competitors are Dell, HP, Toshiba, and Lenovo.
In fact, you, as a prudent investor, no doubt understand that Microsoft and Apple, in fact, have a symbiotic relationship. You understand that our licenses are sold in bulk to the PC OEMs and for retail to people buying a copy of Windows for a Mac. Which people do.
Being a long-term investor, this is all stuff you know. Because if you only invest based on the share price and the niftiness of an ad campaign, then you're not much of an investor.
So whose dividends would you rather have? Ours or Apple's?
11/20/09
"What can I get ya'll?"
"I'll have a coke."
"What kind?"
"Sprite."
#tips
11/21/09
"What can I getcha?"
"I'll have a pop"
"What kind?"
"Vernors"
When I moved to FL (I'm back in the D now) I just switched to calling it soda because it works all over and I didn't want to look like a tourist :P
11/20/09
*May just have been for US sales though
11/20/09
most people opt for the earlier.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
or buy something cheap at the store then upgrade Video cards, Hard Drives ETC.
Apple folks don't normally care about any kind of hardware updgrading, and the way Apple's are built now, I don't even know if you can upgrade them.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
The Powermac and Mac Pro are a different story. They are work horse computers that most consumers don't even know exist. When you are doing heavy work that these are for such as graphic design or CAD programs some times you need to upgrade when new software becomes available. Their design is such that they are easy to upgrade to cater to these type of people.
The consumer level Mac's don't value ease of access like these ones do, they value style above it. The iMac, MacMini and the laptop lines are all harder to expand because as I said before there is not much of a need to. When you can convince consumers that what you are selling is going to be fine as is you can spend more time on styling the products and making them in more unorthodox styles than the Mac Pro.
So yes, it is possible to upgrade consumer level Macs. Is it easy? Not really. Is it even very necessary? No.
11/20/09
11/20/09
Taking a true-cost approach, I'll ignore subsidies, though that certainly cuts the time in half for early buyers.
Pulling $180 per month out of my butt as an estimate for conventional power, I come up with about 32 years to pay off the difference. Which... is actually pretty good aside from the pile of Li-ion and silicon waste left at end-of-life.
11/16/09
While I have to run and support Windows XP boxes at work at home I'm running Linux and OSX.
Another thing I've noticed is the general trend towards people wanting their computer to be more of an appliance. This unfortunately leaves Linux out for most applications (except for specialized uses like Netbooks) but the ease of use on a Mac is what many people are willing to pay that extra money for. Heck, there wouldn't be Hackintoshes out there if people didn't want to emulate the Mac.
Back in the mid 90s when I started learning my craft, Windows was hands down the best choice over Mac despite all the flaws of Win 95. Today the tides have changed and if price is equal for most home uses outside of gaming, OSX wins. #steveballmer
11/06/09
*disco ball drops from ceiling and everyone begins to dance*
11/06/09
It's true. Responding to Ballmer quotes is intensely difficult.
Sometimes he outright shoots his mouth off, such as when talking about Winmo 7 or Blu Ray on the 360.
Other times his statements regarding the US economy are cryptic for anyone hoping to see real leadership from CEO's instead of investor-speak for status quo.
He's a terrible CEO, in charge of a company that I actually like. Bill Gates at least saw the big picture, allocated resources, and followed through on his vision. Every time.
The only time I think it's apt to take Ballmer seriously is the one time NO ONE took him seriously. When he was shouting "developers! Developers!" Well, that's remarkably true now, from app stores to Mozilla add-ons, the world belongs to developers and Google developers.
11/06/09
Don't feed the trolls.
11/06/09
Al Gore invented the internet, but Eric Schmidt made it. #google
11/06/09
11/06/09
11/06/09
I'm talking about oregano, of course! #gizmodoremainders
11/06/09
11/06/09
Plus... screw rocket motorcycles. How bout an electric one with so much power it throws you into the next state? #gizmodoremainders
11/05/09
Following the writing of this report, the analysts blew $5,000 on hookers and coke. Then they found some spare change under the couch. Their cash flow position for the evening was declared "mixed".
11/05/09
11/05/09
11/05/09