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Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
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YuDawhoa
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
will blackbird be one of the choices?
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Mitchrico619
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
You all, are dumb. Microsoft is dominating the os world. They need to be stopped, you americans give the same fast food answers. Think a little before you go saying something. I would be pissed if I made a browser and I had no initial exposure. Believe it or not that can make a huge difference. Microsoft has been monopolizing the industry for long enough. You may argue that mac is even worse but thats the attitude you have to have to compete against that giant.
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Scazza
07/26/09

@Mitchrico619: So let me get this straight, MS makes successful and smart business choices and gets ahead of the game early. The public consistantly buys more windows machines then any other, and MS should be punished for it? What fucking business school did you go to?

Pretty much the EU is punishing MS because more PEOPLE make a CHOICE to buy a Microsoft OS. That makes no sense.
Its not anti-trust, its anti-business. The EU is sending a message to EVERYONE that if you do good in your field, prepare to get slapped with fines and having give up to competitors, regardless the quality of their product.

Your also a bit narrow minded. Your upset that your browser you WROTE FOR MICROSOFTs OPERATING system isnt getting exposure. I would ask you "who the hell are you, thinking you can write for MS OS and then bitch because MS dosn't cater to your competing product." How can you not see how asinine that is?

Its also not a question of who is worse, mac or microsoft, its a question of fairness. Its Mac, linux etc forced to upfront offer competing products? When you start up a new mac book, is firefox an option? I don't think so.
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UnderLoK
07/26/09

@Mitchrico619: Remember that the next time you buy a car in the EU. Make sure to bitch that your VW didn't have options for an Alpine radio, aftermarket seats, or the like.
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Rask
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
So what happens if the majority of EU customers, even with the choice, choose to use IE anyways?

Will the EU slap more fines on Microsoft? Will they start sueing the population?
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tylaw83
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
Why should Apple have to offer options if it is also the hardware company.

The issue is that OEM's can't package Windows-based systems with another browser.

Since Apple is the OEM in its case, there's no issue.
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fanboy.took.my.star
07/25/09

@tylaw83: i dont even know if thats the issue... oems seem free to install a shitload of other useless unwanted non msoft products....
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SyphonFilter
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
This kind of legislation is bullshit if you ask me. How is it that MS are forced to offer products from their competitors?

Also, the 95% of people that this is aimed at (i.e. your joe public retard who doesnt know about other browsers) will likely opt for IE anyway, as it's what they have always used. For the other 5% (i.e. anyone who reads this and other similar blogs/sites) will again just install whatever it is they have already been using. Also, all the fucking browsers are free!!! It's like MS are charging to have IE included.

There are no winners and MS are a forced loser in all this. Waste of fucking time and energy. I'm sure the EU has much bigger problems to worry about!!
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AlexanderBias
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
What people here seem to "forget" is that the problem wasn't/isn't the browser as such, but the integral part it makes in the system. Uninstall IE and remove all components and your system, practically, stops working. It's what might be considered a "lock in" and is what the problem is all about, not if FF or Chrome is bundled as alternative browsers.
The problem for MS is and has been to remove the IE components from the system in such a way that it makes the OS usable ("as intended") without the need for the IE components. (Remember when URLs opened in the same Explorer window you typed it? Back in the days?)
Having a simple browser (as Wordpad is a simple word processor) bundled has never been a problem, per se.
But I suppose it's more fun to call the EU "retarded".

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fanboy.took.my.star
07/25/09

@AlexanderBias: i think the original idea was to make it so that you could just type in a url in the file brower and it would magically transform into ie with the desired page loaded...and you could type in a local location in ie and it would transform into a file browser...yet if you hit back on the file browser it would take you the the webpage you had opened...this was somehow supposed to make using computers easier....

its allot like how konqueror is the file/web browser for kde...

if they can get away with this...then the eu will make a stink about how windows has a monopoly on its super integrated file browser which makes it unfair to total commander users....
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bennymatthew
07/25/09

@AlexanderBias: They're not talking about uninstalling IE, but disabling it as a web-browser... not a file browser. For someone who's calling the EU "retarded" (even playfully), you seemed to not comprehend a very, very simple concept.
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UnderLoK
07/26/09

@AlexanderBias: Um... That hasn't been the case for some time my man. They were forced to remove IE from explorer and what not a long time ago.
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Thinger
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
I want to lodge a complaint. My Toyota came with a Toyota engine, and I wanted a Mazda engine. That's just plain monopolistic!

Geezus there are some dolts running the governments in the EU...Integrating IE into the OS made the whole OS run better and simpler for the user. Instead they shoot themselves, well their constituents, in the foot.

Microsoft has never, ever made it a pain to install any third party browser. Hell, write up your own if you'd like. Microsoft will give you the SDKs!

We might of had a high functioning retard for a president, but at least he didn't like to kick his own people in the nuts just to see us wriggle on the floor for a few minutes.
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fanboy.took.my.star
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
i dont get why msoft even has to bother with this...

just wondering...does osx come with 2 or more browsers? if not then why isnt anyone bugging them?...

pretty soon people will start bitching that there is only 1 text editor or 1 picture viewer or 1 media player or 1 firewall or whatever with a widows install...

its not like they are blocking the install of alternatives to there crap...and its there os...what should the bundle with an os? nothing? whats the harm? every other os comes with a bunch of crap you dont want....

they should totally remove all web browsers from the european version of 7 just to teach them a lesson about enforcing pointless law...
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JDickson87
07/25/09

@urbanturban666: Except Apple is worse, only selling OS X on their own hardware, and only including safari with OS X. WHERE IS MY BROWSER CHOICE, APPLE?

Oh right, in the fucking browser that's included. But that's anti-competitive. I'd just say fuck 'em and not include any browser at all if I were MS.
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Eruanno
07/25/09

@jdickson87: Uhm, actually my Mac had Opera installed on it as well. Dunno why, it was brand spankin' new.
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MrThunderfield
07/25/09

@urbanturban666: That's because Windows is the dominating OS. If you're not dominating you can do whatever the hell you want.
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fanboy.took.my.star
07/25/09

@MrThunderfield: people choose weather they want the dominating os or not...if they dont like it they can buy a mac...

why should the government decide what a company bundles with its own product? its a free market and people are free to choose...if they all chose to buy apple stuff instead should the government clamp down on apple for similar reasons?

why should the 1st party be in charge of the 3rd parties well being?

maybe we should crack down on sony for selling there own brand of controllers with there consoles....
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Edited by fanboy.took.my.star at 07/25/09 8:54 AM

bennymatthew
07/25/09

@urbanturban666: No one is bugging Apple because their browser is one of the best in the world. And that's not just opinion, it's fact. IE is rubbish and always has been. It's YEARS behind all other web browsers, is a constant pain in the ass for developers and designers for always being different that every other browser (margin sizes, font sizes, default inherit properties, etc.). Safari and Firefox, for example, both work the same way. If you make a page and it looks great in Firefox, it will (without changing the code) look exactly the same and just as good in Safari 99.9% of the time. Once in a while there are small differences, like 1px line-height issues, but nothing deal-breaking. You can't even BEGIN to say the same thing for IE. It's a constant mess. I know, I've been a web designer & developer for more than 10 years.
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fanboy.took.my.star
07/25/09

@bennymatthew: i think thats besides the point...
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MhutchLV
07/25/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
Okay time for a stupid question. All of these browsers are free to download. I've never understood the big fight over browser market share. How the hell do these companies make money on, or even care what browser I'm using.
I'm a little nervous to post this. The answer is probably really obvious and I'm just an idiot but....
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urbanturban666 approved this comment MhutchLV was starred MhutchLV was unstarred

fanboy.took.my.star
07/25/09

@MhutchLV: that is a good question and observation...i think ie is the only browser you have to pay money for to obtain...all the others are free to download (for win/osx/lin)...i too cannot see how they are losing out...
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lhivernant
07/25/09

@MhutchLV: Ad revenue, maybe... The browser has a default home page and search engine that the hypothetical average user will use just because it is the default.
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CreepinJesus
07/25/09

@urbanturban666: Nope, IE is free as well. Sure, you have to have a copy of Windows first, but that's like moaning about road tax when you buy a car.
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nukee
07/25/09

@MhutchLV: I actually looked into this just yesterday since my dad posed that exact question to me. The Mozilla corporation gets 85% of their revenue (Which is usually $75 million) from Google just for having the default search bar and homepage set to Google.
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urbanturban666 promoted this comment Edited by nukee at 07/25/09 11:33 AM nukee was starred nukee was unstarred

Kaiser-Machead
07/24/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
Because before this method, we, the consumers, were pulling out our hair and cutting ourselves in an attempt to quell the agony of IE being bundled into Windows. My eyes are still bloodshot from the ordeal.
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Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred

fanboy.took.my.star
07/25/09

@Kaiser-Machead: its better than nothing...you can still download other browsers using a shitty browser...

how bout this...we get no browser with our os...instead we mail a company far far away and wait 2 to 6 weeks for our browser to arrive in an envelope with 4 or more floppies...we can then wait another 2 to 6 weeks for 2 floppies that got corrupted in the mail to be replaced....

there no point in crying foul on bundled software without first looking at why its even there....
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JodaThongnopnua
07/25/09

@urbanturban666: I think his comment is akin to me saying that Dick Cheney is a great humanitarian, or that Karl Rove deserves a standing ovation for his brilliant involvement in the Plame affair, or that Donald Rumsfeld deserves the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in Iraq--

I forgot where I was going with this comment.
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cnewhall
07/25/09

@urbanturban666: Floppies?! I haven't had a computer with a floppy drive since 1999 or 2000. Even AOL was sending out CD's instead of floppies quite a while ago.
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urbanturban666 promoted this comment Edited by cnewhall at 07/25/09 5:19 AM cnewhall was starred cnewhall was unstarred

AOClaus
07/25/09

@urbanturban666: I'm not sure, but I think he was being sarcastic...
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urbanturban666 promoted this comment AOClaus was starred AOClaus was unstarred

fanboy.took.my.star
07/25/09

@cnewhall: im just giving an example of what obtaining software used to be like (a long long time ago)...

when windows finally started shipping with ie people loved it. they didnt have to run around to get a web browser...

i dont understand how computer ppl went from appreciating the thought to crying foul at it for being included...

some people use the built in ie once to download something better...and then they dont use it again...some people seem cool with that....but from reading these posts people seem pretty upset that they even had to run ie that one time to download firefox/opera/whatever....and that is just being silly...
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DerwinFlorus
07/24/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
forgetting about open source browsers and gnu liscensing. who's giving microsoft the permission to bundle someone else's work with their own software and then charge for it? all of the browsers in question are free to download including ie8 so i'm still confused as to the point of all of this. it would have meant something when opera and netscape cost something but now it's just going to cause headaches.
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strider_mt2k
07/24/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
WHOAWHOAHWHOA

NOBODY CHOOSED ANYTHING!

WHO CHOSE?
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deanbmmv
07/24/09

@strider_mt2k: It just popped right in there. I had such fun browsing with it as a child....

The Mozilla Firefox mascot.
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Edited by deanbmmv at 07/24/09 10:46 PM deanbmmv was starred deanbmmv was unstarred

whiteknight89 still plays DiabloII
07/25/09

@deanbmmv: Well put. At first I thought Strider had lost his ever-loving mind, but your comment reminded me.

On a side note, it seems like a FireFox would cause a greater amount of destruction than a freakin' Marshmallow Man. I'm glad you weren't there. ;)
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Colonel Jack O'Neill
07/24/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
It's Microsoft OS, they should be able to bundle IE in it.
What about Apple, they bundle safari with their OS, and gives their users no other choice of a browser, but no one is complaining about that.
If I were Microsoft I would be like fuck the EU, and won't sell Windows 7 to Europe.
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LolpantsofArabia
07/24/09

@wargames2007: You realise Europe's a bigger market than America, right?
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Kaiser-Machead
07/24/09

@wargames2007: You have more of a choice with OS X, since Safari isn't inextricably tied to the OS.

Ban Windows 7 from Europe? Yeah, that's millions upon millions of dollars in profits lost.
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Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred

UnderLoK
07/26/09

@Kaiser-Machead: IE isn't tied to the OS either. Remember XP w/o IE, it hasn't been tied since that version came out.
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OCEntertainment
07/24/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
I will be VERY interested in a study to see just how much this affects various browser market shares in Europe. My guess: not a noticable amount (those who want to or can use something else do, everyone else will likely be confused or nervous about choosing something different).

After that, I'd love a study on how much money was saved/jobs made/product development/any actual practical upshot was generated as a direct result of this mess. Again, I expect not much.
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Cinephile
07/24/09

In reply to Microsoft Gives Europeans Choice of Browser Instead of None by Default
This was the original idea to include all the web browsers so the people buying Windows 7 would have the opportunity to try out the alternatives.

Microsoft were being stubborn by opting not to listen to the EC recommendations and releasing an OS without a browser.

If this gives people more opportunity to try out the alternatives its good news for all of us.
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