Whatever....They can do what they want....Doesn't mean I have to give them my OS X login password and even if it does, I sure as hell don't have to give them my Truecrypt password...

It's a good thing Canadian customs agents don't give a shit about searching through your computer, yet. They're not gonna find much anyway, since I can hide everything on .Mac and my external drives at home, and no one's the wiser :P

Some people leave their file setups in huge messes though. A lot of files I've seen were folders within folders with stupid names in a convoluted mess that's hard to discern between something important and something shitty, which is actually a great way to hide porno. Will agents actually bother to sift through ridiculously complicated file folders in search of random naughty stuff?

If my laptop has a VPN connection to my home server, does that mean they can search that too?

Any search of private property without probable cause rubs me the wrong way. Yes, I know I'm on the wrong planet if that's the case.

Now I can't smuggle all that Brazilian porn anymore.

:-/

But seriously, Each Month we are giving up liberties for some invisible boogie-men that iare out to take our jobs and blow up our buildings while doing our jobs.

I feel stuck in the middle about this.

Also, I don't understand what the point of searching through a laptop. Can't it simply be sniffed for explosives like everything else? What am I going to do with malicious code? Hijack the plane and fly it by remote?

Just load up a huge hairy cock n balls background and pray the agent opening is not gay...

" ...laptops are like any other container..."

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

A laptop holds files. So...
How is that like any other container?
You mean, like a luggage?
How is a laptop like a luggage?

It's digital files... and in a luggage you have real things.

So like you can carry files in a laptop and you carry things in a luggage? Is that what they mean?

So...because of that association there is a law that allows these people to go through your laptop for what ever reason they make up.

Can someone explain this to me like I'm a 6 year old, please?

Encrypt, encrypt, encrypt that's your flavor or paranoia.

@Kaiser-Machead: I think they do it occasionally, just because they can.

Ooops!!! Better change my wallpaper.

@xint: The agents can has your data, is why.

@TheSonOfKrypton:
I am afraid they already have you there. They can sieze your laptop on the grounds that you were "exporting" encryption technology.

Can someone explain to me how the Republicans have reduced spending, made me safer, helped the economy, and reduced the amount of goverment interference in my personal life?

Free Markets are anything but.

@tamoko: Really? I guess I've been lucky, because I've been traveling to Montreal twice a month for the passed 2 1/2 years straight.

What if you have a picture of a bomb.... Could you be charged with terrorism? It's just like if it were in my luggage then right? Is that not what they are saying?

@xint: I don't agree with the logic, but it really is based on the actual analog analogue: a briefcase.

A briefcase has files, each file will have pictures or documents in it. By voluntarily choosing to fly on a plane you have agreed to let folks flip through these physical files.

A laptop is nothing more than a digitized version of the physical briefcase.

@DucatiGuy: Or do that.

This is lame. I seriously want to know what happens when an agent turns on someones laptop, asks for the password and the person denies their request. WTF are they going to do. Absolute bullshit.

And honestly do they think terrorists are stupid enough to create a folder on their desktop "Pl4nS_T0_B0mB_W4$hing70n_lol"

And what about my various flash drives. Are they going to set up computers so they can go through all the data on those to? Better Fuckin NOt!

@92BuickLeSabre: More precisely, I actually do agree with the logic, but I don't agree with the outcome.

When will people realize that all bets are off at the border? There is no "right" to cross the border. It is and always has been at the will of Customs agents.

@xint - so your files aren't "real things"? My files are.

"There is no "right" to cross the border"

The UN charter on human rights begs to differ.

I don't know what all the fuss is about. I enjoy having my gadgets frisked.

Hasn't everyone TrueCrypt'd their entire system volume by now?

Apparently it's not a quote from Ben Franklin, but it's still true, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
[en.wikiquote.org]

>dfwguy: I always thought that Republicans were all about balanced budgets, small governments and personal freedom. I guess Bush taught me better.

@92BuickLeSabre

Except that your briefcase is seriously limited by size.

The argument against searching a laptop is that with immense storage capabilities, we are essentially using computers as extensions of our own memory.

I was listening to a Canadian Lawyer on the CBC discussing this the other day. His firm has mandated that all data files are stored on an external servers and that laptops are to be software only. That way, if they are searched, there's nothing to find.

This type of story was on the NY Times, you dont have to give them loggin information because thats like self incrimination. I too use double encryption so there's no way I handing my key... (I dont have ilegal stuff but I just like snooping agents).

Using encrytion on USb drives is great especially on home servers because if they are unplugged the volume dismounts so unless you know the keys...or have a can off dust off and work for MIT you're kinda safe.

When I went to Whistler, BC they checked my lappy. Opened it up, powered it on made sure it was really a computer and not a bomb. After about 2-3 minutes he gave it back. I guess if it was a Windows box, it would have taken 15-20 minutes to account for boot up and shut down times.

@wheatieboy:

A gentle request. Please don't delete the "quote" code. We like to see the post you're responding to.

@wheatieboy: Sure. I understand the point.

The problem is that I think the memory analogy is less valid. It's not your memory. Unless you're part of some "record your life" experiment, it's not even close. It's your personal effects and work product. If anything what one actually has stored on their laptop is closer to what one packs in their luggage. These are the documents and files that you need immediate access to while on the road. It's not the company's server just as it's not the full physical file system at the office.

The "size of the briefcase" is a technological difference, but I'm not sure it is a substantive difference.

Trust me, I'd rather agree with you on this than disagree.

I guess what's surprising is if you use the briefcase analogy, you'd understand if border agents wanted to search your briefcase for contraband but if they wanted to actually read your papers you'd be a bit violated. In a laptop all they can do is read your files, so it feels like a violation.

However, I seriously doubt it's going to be a major problem for most of us- but the fact that they can do it is irksome.

Better hope your old Mac laptops don't have a system error when they boot it up.

@Joseph: When I last had to bring my laptop through security, they actually told me NOT to turn it on. Their (quite sound) reasoning is that if it IS a buh, that just might be the way to make it blow.

Bonus points if you don't see a typo.

@anonymousryan: My laptop has an easily-removed HDD. I'll just remove it. Not like I'm using it at the moment they're checking it.

I can see how easy this'll be if something like my dad goes through. His documents folder is about 3GB in size. DOCUMENTS.

@lithivm: Just try not to give them a key when they ask for it. They will make your life hell, even though you're within your rights. They'll hold you, make you miss your flight, frisk you, potentially put you on the no fly list, etc. all to intimidate you into doing whatever they want.

You could encrypt and not give them the PW, and then, at the least, they take your laptop, which they have done, and at the worst, they lock you up or don't let you cross whatever border you are trying to cross. It has been happening all over the world and is a big concern related especially to nations that would take your business laptop for "analysis" and then pass along corporate intellectual capital to businesses in their countries (China, perhaps?) The NY Times has an old article about it, but I have read some more recent articles about people getting laptops confiscated for analysis in various countries and then getting it back weeks, months, years later..... Bottom line, if you have to take a laptop, buy a cheapo with nothing on it, or buy a second hard drive and have set it up as a clean drive to take internationally.

[www.nytimes.com]

Pack your battery in a seperate bag, IE: carry on the battry, and check the laptop.

@TheSonOfKrypton: "Doesn't mean I have to give them my OS X login password"

Actually, you do. While searching the laptops, that's EXACTLY what they are asking from people. And the reports I've read about this issue are saying they don't take no for an answer. They will detain you until you do.

@92BuickLeSabre: So then the next philosphical question would be: say someone invents a brain scanner that reads your thoughts - would border agents then be allowed to use it?

I'm thinking along the lines of anonymousryan, do they have the right to search for information the same as if it were contraband? Obviously a physical briefcase can contain prohibited items - but exactly what information is prohibited, since the signs and fine print stating what is not permitted doesn't list these.

@luciusad2004: "And what about my various flash drives. Are they going to set up computers so they can go through all the data on those to? Better Fuckin NOt!"

Yes, they will get searched, too. It's awesome!

Does that mean you can get nicked for having an image of a movie or a hot copy of office 2008 on your hard drive?

Can anybody answer this?:

When a border agent sees that all of my data is encrypted, can I agrue I cannot decrypt it because bringing the encryption/decryption algorithm across borders is illegal?

I say, bring your laptops with you and don't give them anything. Keep it passworded or encrypted. Fight the power! Say no to Big Brother!

On a more serious note, this is a stupid idea.

There's actually a big court decision pending on the use of encryption for computers that come across the border. Check this out:

[www.washingtonpost.com]

I would just tell em i forgot the password the the encrypted partition.

if you have illegal shit on there you can plead the 5th, you don't have to supply any information that may incriminate you. if giving your password may do so, you have the right to withhold that info (although they'll seize you laptop and try to crack it no doubt.)

@Hanke: Ah, well they took my machine away and inspected it. Your airport security team is smarter than DCA's i guess.

how about just making sure that the battery is "dead". I would like them to try and search thru a dead laptop.

@rexplex: Except Bush isn't a Republican. He's so far right he came back to the left and wants everyone to conform!

@all who refuse to give pwds: there have already been cases where people who refuse to give passwords have had their laptops confiscated.

Looks to me like the best solution is to hide your sensitive data on a server somewhere and access it when you get to your destination. Don't carry it with you through customs.

@brutek: Yes, you can argue that, but that would be grounds for the border agent to exercise his authority to confiscate your laptop and you would probably never see it again.

One more step to police state. Keep on walkin

@Pixelantes Anonymous:

""Doesn't mean I have to give them my OS X login password"

Actually, you do. While searching the laptops, that's EXACTLY what they are asking from people. And the reports I've read about this issue are saying they don't take no for an answer. They will detain you until you do. "

Good to know, as I have so international travel comming up. Since my Laptop is dual-boot rigged with Linux and windows I suppose I'll just remove the boot loader entry for Windows and unmount the windows system partition and the data partition in Linux. Since I only use the linux install to study well...linux, anything but a pretty determined examination by a fairly knowledgable agent should keep all my personal (not to mention totally benign) data safe from prying eyes.

Sigh...I love dual-booting.

Of course, if they discover my chicanery I'll look suspicious/guilty as hell and likely be up $h!t creek...

ok so if i dont give them the password they take it wtf? ok so if i do give them the password and they find my pronzz what then?

Just store your porn in your own webspace. Problem solved!

"Let's see here . . ."

CTRL F

*al Qaider*

Enter

thats why i hid my porno on my sys32 folder.

Are we absolutely sure that the court ruling (very odd for the 9th circus) also allowed searching the data?

easy, just have shell login with a separate user for the feds and a few hidden encrypted partitions for your own files. i.e. make the fools think they have access to your system.