I think there will be an inevitable backlash to the RealNetworks-type tactics. That move was much closer to the "sleazy" than to the "brilliant marketing" end of the scale.

I actually DL'ed it because i wanted to try it out.

I still use Firefox as my main browser and Safari still locks up on some sites just like it does on a Mac.

Yeah, I saw that. This is even more despicable than Microsoft inflating the number of Vista adopters by counting XP purchases as downgraded copies of Vista. I guess MS wins this one.

I uninstalled Apple Software update, anyway. I don't need to install something for half an hour, reboot my computer, and change all my shortcuts just so that they can improve iFone support on iTunes or something useless like that.

Well, I must confess I was one of the fools that fell for that one, I've used it 3 times since I download it, and I do not love it. I will uninstall it soon.

When we used a PC, I used Firefox; my wife used IE.
When we got a Mac I figured, okay, she's going to have to use a new browser, maybe I can convince her to use Firefox.

She immediately started using Safari.

I really think she's doing it just to irritate me.

@Mandatory_Field: I'm with you.

RealNetworks tactics have always been and always will be computer douchebaggery.

I'm a Safari man on my MacBook because Moz can't come out with a stable release for Leopard (ie - one that doesn't crash thrice daily); for XP though, it's Firefox all the way. It's far more extensible.

And bait-and-switch is a good way to get me to swear off a product out of principle.

any actual numbers? triple could mean 300% of 100 people

I've seen Safari on quite a few client PCs since this forced deployment started. It's clearly "working," but whether or not the people who have it are even noticing it's there is another story.

I can see why Mozilla's so upset, though. It's hard enough to get people to switch off of the web browser that comes with Windows. Now imagine someone finally realizes there could be a reason to try something else. Do they download Firefox, or do they try the other browser that's already on their computers and came from the people who made their beloved iTunes? It's just short of what had everyone up in arms that MS was building IE into Windows.

There are many installers that pre-check FireFox and Google Toolbar, etc. And let snot even get into how MS has put all version os IE onto Windows. This is no different, Apple even changed their installer app to include a secondary section for new apps so it's pretty obvious now.

Staying Opera on both my MBP and pc. Use Safari on the MBP as little as possible. Just because Apple have a tripling of installed user-base does not mean a tripling of users actually using the software. I certainly don't want Safari on my pc (no more than I want IE on it) and tactics like this simply make Apple and Safari a target for retribution. Firefox on both machines as well but at least I freely downloaded that without the use of any disreputable tactics involved. Steve, your making a name for yourself in the pc browser market but its not a good long-term strategic or security move for Apple's customers, myself included.

I use Firefox 3 Beta 5. Despite it's Beta software bugs, I love it more then Firefox 2. Specially under Vista, as it can (with this: ) take advantage of the Aero, which is amazing. Moreover, just it's new features and faster surfing makes it also impressive. I can't wait for the final (that is if the final has all the bugs and issues resolved of course). Thanks to UAC under Vista, I never got the update thingy that Apple tried to do.
On release of Safari I did try it, and all I can say is I think Big Rig the game

+ Watch video

Isn't this kind of, sort of what Microsoft had done with IE. You know...when Netscape was around.

Sure, Apple "stealth" installed Safari on a whole bunch of Windows Apple Update users, but that doesn't mean that they actually had to launch Safari and use it for web browsing...

That whole thing apple did sucks armpits I didn't download it and never will, too bad most people who use itunes don't even look at those prompts they just click next

well hey at least it has that cool little blue scroll bar thing

fanboys gizmodo failed to mention safari's whole marketshare dropped 0.5%, OSX dropped 0.5% as well, firefox dropped 1%

and guess what, IE6 gained 1%, IE7 gained 0.2%

Total BS

@jakeyjohn1: Be warned that armpit sucking may not be a necessarily bad thing: [www.femalefirst.co.uk]
As for people who use pc itunes, they should stop right now. It's just not worth it. Not even for coverflow.

Safari isn't so bad and it's good to have all popular browsers for web development...just to make life more crappy and tedious.

Ugh, I got rid of Safari even after trying to tweak it to play nice. Firefox wins out every time.

This Sucks! i love itunes, and want the updates, but i DO NOT want to install safari, and it keeps bugging me about it every other day, and i do not know how to make it stop. damn you safari! i still love you itunes.

There's just nothing in it that makes it worth switching from firefox to.

@phryed: Just go to tools on the updater and select ignore.

This type of tactic turns me off to the product. Same goes for web pages that use the Firefox required scheme. I would be more open to the idea if it wasn't being imposed on me.

That said, if anyone knows a workaroud to make FF favorites searchable through Vista Desktop Search, I'd love to know the trick.

Don't they generally measure browser market share based on actual traffic logs? Wouldn't that mean that it wouldn't increase simply by being installed but that people are actually using it?

Not saying Apple wasn't out of line with the stealth install, but it could be interesting to see which direction the market share heads after this.

I love that graph. It goes from 0% to...

As a web developer I have all four browsers installed on my computer. But I do think my biggest pet peeve about the internet is bundling like Yahoo Toolbar with Flash etc... Its deceptive and rude as most users just click install thinking they are install what they downloaded and not 100 other objects that can slow down a computer. Yes so when I help speed up Windows for my friends I'm like "Did you install Yahoo Toolbar since my last checkup?" and they are like no. I'm always uninstall a million things and yes they should check (as I do) but it is extremely underhanded and makes me think less of these companies.

@XanderCrews: Aha! thank you, XC. for some reason i never noticed there were actually menus up there.

I'm still pissed about QT being bundled with iTunes...then this crap.

IE is install ON every windows (US) computer, but its market share isn't exactly 100%.

So, a huge spike to where exactly? Please, depending on the graph, even a "spike" to 0.08 from 0.07 can look amazing. And "installed on" vs "used" is a COMPLETELY different thing. Is that "market share"?

@BaseVilliN: Yes, this graph is useless.

sneaky apple, very sneaky.

Apple can sneak it on to every computer in the world.. It still will not change the fact that it sucks.

Does "market share" in this case mean the install base (i.e. people who accidentally installed it) or is it based on web traffic (i.e. how many people actually use it)?

It's not like Firefox or Google Toolbar isn't pre-checked on many many different installers.

Mozilla is upset because any Safari share taked revenue from them.

so judging by the graph its .15 ish now?
hell netscape has more than that.

If I wanted a piece of crap buggy browser from apple I would have installed it myself. I don't need that scumbag Steve sneaking his garbage on my PC. Thankfully I was born with half a brain and I never got the crap. Now I refuse to use any Apple software for this retarded stunt.

@Leonard Nimrod: oh excuse me I didn't know a simple addon toolbar was JUST LIKE AN ENTIRE BROWSER! Also if Microsoft didn't put IE in with windows HOW THE HELL DID YOU INSTALL FIREFOX/OPERA/WHATEVER!? You want everyone to go out and buy the cd's? no thank you. I appreciate windows giving us at least the BASIC software we need to get by with the OS.

Also I think its fair game for the company making an OS to put whatever they want in it, they made it, not you. Apple bundles software with their OS. I haven't heard one person bitch about that.. AND THEY SHOULDN'T.

@Tony C: ... and judging by the numbers, they didn't.

What beefed me about it was that it didn't give you the option of a desktop icon or if it added itself to the Quick Launch bar. It just stuffed itself in there. I was almost expecting it to make itself default too.

I definitely recommend Safari over anything else. It is by far the most elegant, clutter free and fastest browser.

@XanderCrews: Boosh.

Well I personally use webkit on my Mac. The last nigthly build that I checked on Acid Test 3 scored a 100%. IE, Firefox, Camino, Opera etc... can't come anywhere close to that so why are you all crying about Safari. Proper Web standard support is more important than Firefox extensions IMHO.

Safari is a great web browser, but apple needs to add some lipstick to it like Firefox did with it's latest beta version cause although Safari is great, it feels kind of old

@notnb: Well, in iTune's case it really HAS to be bundled with Quicktime since it uses the QT framework as its backbone. Not all PCs have QT already installed, and average folks probably can't be bothered to d/l them seperately.

Actually, it's not a 'forced' addition - you can choose to uncheck it from the Apple Update install box.

And while I'm an Apple fan - this move just sucked. It's straight out of the Microsoft Playbook.

As for Real Networks - I wouldn't know, I don't use any of their stuff.

I was in love with Safari 3 the first few weeks after it came out - it was at least 30% faster than either FF or Opera.

The sluggishness due to all those flash adverts (which FireFox blocks) unfortunately meant that some of my pages crashed so now I'm back to the ol' tried and trusted. I also think Safari seriously needs some basic add on capabilities. IE has IEPlus, FF has it's add-on support and so does Opera.

Wanna make it a serious competitor, Apple? Give us expansion capabilities!

Well believe it or not some people have never even heard of another browser other than IE, so if Safari got install without them really knowing it's a browser they might start using it thinking it came with there ipod & it must be something good

@Krutch: If you installed it you choose to install it. Nothing is done automatically. Just like when you install other software and they suggest other software, including Firefox, by pre-checking the box and having you check Next or Install. The same thing. Just like any other non-malware app it doesn't autostart or run background processes. The only harm it does is take up about 18MB of HDD space.

If there is anything to complain about it's QT auto-starting after updates, even though you've set all the preferences.

and I still do not use Safari.
M

bullsh*t to their methods. can only be described with one word.

SLEASEBALL

/topic

@Leonard Nimrod: That and it keeps making useless icons every time. It drives me insane, but I do love QT otherwise.