NASA is inefficient. its budget should go towards prizes for breakthroughs in reducing the cost of access to space. Like the X Prize, but with billions instead of millions for the winner.
Actually, we're not spending enough on NASA. NASA has had its budget cut year after year after year since the Space Race became 'mundane' to the populace.
As far as I'm concerned we should have had permanent settlements off-planet 10 years ago. We should have a far more advanced space station that we do.
Guess what people, we are going to run out of resources someday. Then some time after than our galaxies sun is going to supernova. We are going to have to get off this rock and this galaxy someday.
So my answer is obviously that we are not spending near enough.
@axiomatic: You mean our solar system's sun will supernova. Actually our star, the sun, is not massive enough to supernova. Once it burns through its fuel it will likely collapse in on itself and shrink to near the size of the earth and become a white dwarf. It isnt massive enough to overcome electron degeneracy pressure and breakdown further, as would be needed for supernova. regardless, this wont happen for 4.5bln years. Humans will be long gone by then.
@gg101: before the sun shrinks to a white dwarf, it will first explode into a red giant. It's not a supernova, but it's a similar process, and will incinerate the Earth. As others have said, that's not for 5 billion years, but it's impossible to imagine that another catastrophic natural disaster wouldn't occur between now and then. 5 billion years is a loooooong time.
Let me put it this way. The drug program, widely known to be an abject failure, receives nearly DOULBE the funding that NASA receives. We get almost no return on our investment from the drug program in its current incarnation (mostly interdiction). NASA contributes heavily to our technological innovation, and yet we barely fund it. What's wrong with this picture?
Trying to find a way to make NASA more efficient is the best solution. NASA, like other government agencies is incredibly wasteful, but you get away with it when you essentially have a monopoly on space. Private space programs are theoretically the best way to quicken the pace of advancement in space exploration. The main problem is the ginormously prohibitive entry costs to enter such a market.
@gg101: One of the conclusions of the Columbia Accident Investigation Board was that not enough money is being spent on space based on the goals. In other words, space flight is so complex, if you're going to do it, you have to spend tons of money on it, otherwise it will fail. It can't be done on the cheap - better to spend the money it needs to do it safely or not do it at all.
@mullingitover: Those of you who think we can get rid of the military are misled. While I would like to see more money spent on space exploration, I am not naive enough to think we don't need money spent on defense. I suppose we don't need police either.
@Bigbadbikernerd: Sure. But I'd take it a step further. Get rid of the law. If there was no law, then there would be no crime, and thus no use for law enforcement officers.
@mullingitover: Worthless? you are joking right. I hope you are because if you aren't than you are a moron. The above have commented satisfactorily. But emphasize the parts where entire towns would cease to exist, millions upon millions would be jobless, crime would skyrocket (admittedly some military people aren't of the nicest type), the United States would lose all influence, and we would be bombed to death by various zealot world Leaders around the world. And that is just the beginning.
@everyone: tell me what the military can do to protect humanity from a *real* threat like a 10km asteroid heading for the planet? Oh, that's right, not a damned thing.
@eagles3_isn't afraid of the big bad Pig(flu)?: I love this argument that if the government didn't employ people they'd be jobless. Really? Forever? If so, how fucking incompetent are these people? If they'd really be jobless forever, then there's no way we should be paying them anyway.
If, as you'd likely argue, these are hardworking, smart, skilled workers, let the private sector demand more out of them. The government only breeds laziness and stagnation. There is no program that embodies this stagnation better than NASA. In the last 50 years, what advancements have we made to the way we get into orbit?
@mullingitover: i always thought the U.S. should disband the military and privatize the buisness. There would be competition and the federal government could still fund it but it would be spending less money.
@mullingitover: If you're comparing the military's ability to protect the planet from space threats vs. NASA's, you should know that the military's budget for space exceeds NASA's, and DoD has more space assets than is generally assumed.
In 2008, for example, NASA's budget was a little over 17 billion; the Department of Defense's budget for their space program alone was over 21 billion.
@cpthook: The space program is only 50 years old anyway, so all progress, has been made in the last 50 years.
People assume that space flight is easier than it is and after 50 years should be more routine and advanced. But the nature of the beast is that it is so complex and difficult, that every space flight is experimental, failure rate is high, only around 5,000 objects have ever been sent into orbit, and virtually every one of them used only once - compared to the millions of airplanes built and used multiple times during the first 50 years of airplanes.
Visible rapid advancement in other technology areas raise expectations for space flight, but the realities are that it remains more complex than any other human endeavor. The space shuttle itself is the most complex machine ever built, each flight is experimental rather than routine, it has a high percentage failure rate (2 down), and is being scrapped because it will never be fully reliable.
After 10,000 generations of humans, the fact that the last 50 years escalated space flight to its current level is impressive. Still, expectations for faster progress remain artificially high based on misunderstandings of what a big hot mess it is to launch humans safely into space and return them to Earth so they can astroblog about their experience.
@The-Joker: Some of that has already happened, with companies like Blackwater contracted to provide security and other services in Iraq and elsewhere. However, Blackwater employees performing the same job as soldiers get paid far more as a private contractor.
It terrifies me that millions of people base their ill-formed opinions about public policy on this twerp and his insipid show. As comedy, it's lame, but harmless (how many times can you watch John Stewart smirk in response to news video before you don't find it funny anymore?). As political instruction, it's insidious. No wonder just about everyone I talk to under 30 is so fucking clueless and uninformed.
Such a shame. A small fleet of these would have really been a deterrant against any attacks via ICBM on the US homeland and likely on those of our allies. I hope the progress isn't lost and we can pick this up soon.
@rolfo87: Contrary to popular belief US foreign policy is not a divine instrument of fate/providence/etc, and as such we can't make bullets collide (or even curve).
@kizzie33: CNN international plays (or at least used to play) an "international" version of the daily show (they edit out some of the US political coverage, but leave in everything with international significance).
In order to prepare the budget, Gates had to do it in secret and then get all the key officers to sign NDAs - promising that they would not even talk to other high-ranking serving officers. Even Rumsfeld never tried anything that high-handed - Gates is deliberately and publicly muzzling the top uniformed personnel, lest they actually express an opinion. Remember how under Bush any officer who raised an objection to anything was oh-so-brave?
I love how Stewart slams everybody else for not upholding his high standards for the type of info they should dish out, then turns around and uses his bully pulpit to spew the administrations talking points. They should really officially list him on the payroll.
And the military budget is being cut, at least on paper. The Bush admin used the baseline military budget for normal operational expenses, and then special/supplemental appropriations for war fighting and one expenses. Obama has called this "dishonest" (despite the fact he intends to do the same into the forseeable future). Whether is is or not is debatable, but the point is while his baseline budget will increase, the other appropriations will be dramatically cut, meaning the total amount of cash projected to go to the military will be reduced. But don't let facts stand in the way of a good joke/administration spin. And I'm sure those missile defense systems won't be needed, Obama will put on some Marvin Gaye and charm the nukes right off the Norks, and then they'll all have a sing along with the Somali pirates. Yay.
@junyo: The fact that feathers are being ruffled by a comedy show poking fun at the military industrial complex is pretty telling.
Could it be that Steward's jabs are getting too close to exposing the ridiculousness of the situation?
The problem may not be whether the missile defense system are needed or not, but whether they will actually work even when needed. At this point, some Marvin Gaye and some charm appears to be just as effective as a system that can't even find the side of a barn, let alone hit it.
@RainyDayInterns: Could it be that Steward's jabs are getting too close to exposing the ridiculousness of the situation?
No it couldn't. In addition to being a comedian, Jon Stewart is a citizen. And he's a citizen with more reach and access than most (Giz doesn't link to the opinions of my Uncle Carl three times a week). He lectures journalists on their ethics without wondering why those journalists can't ask hard questions. They can't because of people like him. Whether he labels it as such, his show is just as much of a news source than any other mainstream news organization, if not more so. And Stewart puts on a clown nose and says 'I excepted from my own rules because I'm a clown. I do everything a journalist does, I use all of the trappings to my advantage, I opine constantly, but at the end of the day, because I choose not to apply this label to myself, then the rules don't apply to me.' Which is either extremely disingenuous or extremely naive.
During the '04 campaign John Kerry wouldn't do any hard news shows, but he did TDS, because he knew it would be a friendly venue. So Kerry gave the appearance of having been interviewed by a news anchor, when what he got was on-air verbal fellatio from Stewart In the midst of the Swift Boat issue, when Kerry could've been given the chance to clearly state his case, Stewart asked "So how you holding up?" One question, right before the play-out music, no chance for a response, on the biggest controversy of the biggest election (to that point) in recent history, Stewart's the only one given a chance at a public question, and he fucking doesn't bother. Jim Cramer wishes he got such a pat on the head. Stewart Had a candidate for POTUS, and he tossed him softballs. And because Stewart was available and tossing softballs, no journalists that looked like he might do a hard interview had a shot. Stewart's show (and Rush and Glenn Beck, et al.) makes venue shopping by politicians much more viable. And it lowers the standard for everybody, since TV is a business. If you want the big, rating bonanza interview, you better not bring any more heat than TDS. The fact that progressives go apoplectic over Fox News' bias, and then want to offer Stewart tongue baths from their virgin daughters is a sign of cognitive dissonance on a mind boggling scale. Fine, Fox News is officialy declared a comedy channel, therefore all bets are off, right? Right.
Essentially, we'd be giving up a lot of our air superiority for an enormous savings in defense spending. Can it be overcome more cheaply, with, as Stewart notes, a little less porcine spending? Sure.
But will cutting it altogether contribute to American military deaths? Probably. And that's an unfortunate problem in the construction of any budget.
@Rock You Like An Iracane: Plus on the F-22 the R&D is already a sunk cost. A lot of the per plane cost is a result of congress stretching out the development period and funding a low-rate, inefficient production run. If we ever do tangle with the Chinese or another major power in the air, we will very likely be massively outnumbered, so we better have a huge qualitative edge. Buying more F-22s would have been much better stimulus spending than half the crap in the Pokulus Bill - the $ would be spend in the US and rather quickly, unlike a lot of projects in the bill that won't even get rolling for years.
I get the cutting of the Army's Future Combat Systems - the program was massive, going nowhere fast and America's present qualitative edge in ground combat vehicles is a lot more secure than in the air. If we do have to fight a major power like China or Russia, it will be in the air and at sea - any land war is likely to be against low-tech forces like Iraq, Iran or the Norks - and I say this as a former Army guy - the Army's stuff is good enough, whereas the Air Force has to keep pushing the technical envelope.
@Canoehead: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Future Combat Systems program trying to build a single vehicle to take the place of several? The term jack of all trades, king of none comes to mind.
@Canoehead: Hehehe, man an F-4 with the right load-out could shoot down anything any other country could throw at us.
But I actually agree that canceling the F-22 sucked, yeah it ran over-budget and took too long, but it is pretty much done at this point. So we're going to give up and stop signing checks when the project is ~95% complete.
And don't even get me started on the F-23, what a chunk of commercialized BS. VERY WELL PUT GANN - "The term jack of all trades, king of none comes to mind." Not to mention the fact that they are going to be sold to pretty much any country that can afford them, so air combat is a spec racing series now? WTF?
05/08/09
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I'VE NEVER BEEN TO MAAAAHS!!!!!
05/08/09
As far as I'm concerned we should have had permanent settlements off-planet 10 years ago. We should have a far more advanced space station that we do.
05/08/09
So my answer is obviously that we are not spending near enough.
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If, as you'd likely argue, these are hardworking, smart, skilled workers, let the private sector demand more out of them. The government only breeds laziness and stagnation. There is no program that embodies this stagnation better than NASA. In the last 50 years, what advancements have we made to the way we get into orbit?
05/08/09
05/08/09
In 2008, for example, NASA's budget was a little over 17 billion; the Department of Defense's budget for their space program alone was over 21 billion.
05/08/09
People assume that space flight is easier than it is and after 50 years should be more routine and advanced. But the nature of the beast is that it is so complex and difficult, that every space flight is experimental, failure rate is high, only around 5,000 objects have ever been sent into orbit, and virtually every one of them used only once - compared to the millions of airplanes built and used multiple times during the first 50 years of airplanes.
Visible rapid advancement in other technology areas raise expectations for space flight, but the realities are that it remains more complex than any other human endeavor. The space shuttle itself is the most complex machine ever built, each flight is experimental rather than routine, it has a high percentage failure rate (2 down), and is being scrapped because it will never be fully reliable.
After 10,000 generations of humans, the fact that the last 50 years escalated space flight to its current level is impressive. Still, expectations for faster progress remain artificially high based on misunderstandings of what a big hot mess it is to launch humans safely into space and return them to Earth so they can astroblog about their experience.
05/08/09
04/10/09
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04/10/09
It would be like carrying around an elephant-gun for protection from wildlife... in Manhattan.
04/10/09
would you kill htat?!
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and Rush is not a source of anything but bullshit.
04/10/09
And the military budget is being cut, at least on paper. The Bush admin used the baseline military budget for normal operational expenses, and then special/supplemental appropriations for war fighting and one expenses. Obama has called this "dishonest" (despite the fact he intends to do the same into the forseeable future). Whether is is or not is debatable, but the point is while his baseline budget will increase, the other appropriations will be dramatically cut, meaning the total amount of cash projected to go to the military will be reduced. But don't let facts stand in the way of a good joke/administration spin. And I'm sure those missile defense systems won't be needed, Obama will put on some Marvin Gaye and charm the nukes right off the Norks, and then they'll all have a sing along with the Somali pirates. Yay.
04/10/09
04/10/09
Could it be that Steward's jabs are getting too close to exposing the ridiculousness of the situation?
The problem may not be whether the missile defense system are needed or not, but whether they will actually work even when needed. At this point, some Marvin Gaye and some charm appears to be just as effective as a system that can't even find the side of a barn, let alone hit it.
04/10/09
No it couldn't. In addition to being a comedian, Jon Stewart is a citizen. And he's a citizen with more reach and access than most (Giz doesn't link to the opinions of my Uncle Carl three times a week). He lectures journalists on their ethics without wondering why those journalists can't ask hard questions. They can't because of people like him. Whether he labels it as such, his show is just as much of a news source than any other mainstream news organization, if not more so. And Stewart puts on a clown nose and says 'I excepted from my own rules because I'm a clown. I do everything a journalist does, I use all of the trappings to my advantage, I opine constantly, but at the end of the day, because I choose not to apply this label to myself, then the rules don't apply to me.' Which is either extremely disingenuous or extremely naive.
During the '04 campaign John Kerry wouldn't do any hard news shows, but he did TDS, because he knew it would be a friendly venue. So Kerry gave the appearance of having been interviewed by a news anchor, when what he got was on-air verbal fellatio from Stewart In the midst of the Swift Boat issue, when Kerry could've been given the chance to clearly state his case, Stewart asked "So how you holding up?" One question, right before the play-out music, no chance for a response, on the biggest controversy of the biggest election (to that point) in recent history, Stewart's the only one given a chance at a public question, and he fucking doesn't bother. Jim Cramer wishes he got such a pat on the head. Stewart Had a candidate for POTUS, and he tossed him softballs. And because Stewart was available and tossing softballs, no journalists that looked like he might do a hard interview had a shot. Stewart's show (and Rush and Glenn Beck, et al.) makes venue shopping by politicians much more viable. And it lowers the standard for everybody, since TV is a business. If you want the big, rating bonanza interview, you better not bring any more heat than TDS. The fact that progressives go apoplectic over Fox News' bias, and then want to offer Stewart tongue baths from their virgin daughters is a sign of cognitive dissonance on a mind boggling scale. Fine, Fox News is officialy declared a comedy channel, therefore all bets are off, right? Right.
04/10/09
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Essentially, we'd be giving up a lot of our air superiority for an enormous savings in defense spending. Can it be overcome more cheaply, with, as Stewart notes, a little less porcine spending? Sure.
But will cutting it altogether contribute to American military deaths? Probably. And that's an unfortunate problem in the construction of any budget.
04/10/09
I get the cutting of the Army's Future Combat Systems - the program was massive, going nowhere fast and America's present qualitative edge in ground combat vehicles is a lot more secure than in the air. If we do have to fight a major power like China or Russia, it will be in the air and at sea - any land war is likely to be against low-tech forces like Iraq, Iran or the Norks - and I say this as a former Army guy - the Army's stuff is good enough, whereas the Air Force has to keep pushing the technical envelope.
04/10/09
04/10/09
But I actually agree that canceling the F-22 sucked, yeah it ran over-budget and took too long, but it is pretty much done at this point. So we're going to give up and stop signing checks when the project is ~95% complete.
And don't even get me started on the F-23, what a chunk of commercialized BS. VERY WELL PUT GANN - "The term jack of all trades, king of none comes to mind." Not to mention the fact that they are going to be sold to pretty much any country that can afford them, so air combat is a spec racing series now? WTF?
04/10/09
04/10/09
Until then STFU...
04/10/09
damn.
04/10/09
04/10/09
I was thinking of the CBU-97 sensor-fuzed weapon.