I pity the guy who has to listen to my telephone calls, especially the ones to my mom.

"Last Chance to Save Our Privacy Rights from Warrantless Domestic Spying"

Really? You're going to dismantle ECHELON, and remove the hardware and software hooks that have been installed in telecom equipment for the last couple decades? You going to repeal FISA?

Grow up. There haven't been more than the illusion of privacy rights in this country since the 1950's, and we're the most dossiered group of people on the planet. And let's not forget that the President was given legislative cover on this issue by the not even close passage of the Protect America Act of 2007.

So write your letters hippies. I'll be in my bunker.

Giz, I thought I knew you.

Leave the politicing to the political sites.

Besides who really cares? If someone really wants to listen in on my conversations all they're going to get is an accidental recommendation to visit meatspin.com.

Who really has that much to hide? And if so, maybe someone SHOULD be listening to them.

@adam12hicks: That thinking is everything that is wrong with the situation today. It doesn't matter if you do or don't have something to hide - the whole point is that it's governmental intrusion. Why don't you just strip yourself of all basic personal rights and be done with it?

Ha, freedom loving Yanks. Try living in the UK like me. There are more CCTV cameras per square mile in London than anywhere else on earth, including China and Russia. We have no freedom, but at least we don't suffer under the illusion of freedom.

@adam12hicks: I really can't believe people can be as ignorant as you. The reason the founders of this country created laws to protect us from our government is TO PROTECT US FROM OUR GOVERNMENT. You think this country couldn't degenerate into a Soviet Russia style fascist state? It could and it is... at which point the people with something to hide will be everyone who disagrees with the government. That means you dipshit.

@GeorgeD: Yeah no thanks spineless worm.

@GeorgeD: and props to all the people destroying those cameras.

[gizmodo.com]

@DOL054 Yeah the chainsaw wielding CCTV cutting down brigade has been quiet of late. Perhaps time to restart that?

@junyo: Pfft, what a dumb knee-jerk reactionary statement. The whole point GIZ is making (that goes for you too deeddawg) is that the giant telecoms that give millions of dollars worth of kickbacks - er, campaign contributions - to our congress members will be getting a retroactive free ride for violating their own privacy policies. They blindly submitted to illegal wiretap requests made by the government. THAT'S the issue here.

What happens when they get retroactive immunity? Oh, look at that, all those multi-million dollar class action lawsuits disappear! Yay!...uh, wait, I forgot I'm not a giant telecom that stands to benefit immensely from the passage of this bill...dang.

AFAIK the debate on warrantless wiretapping on citizens is over. Our federal representatives sold us out and folded like a house of cards in the face of being labeled "weak on terrorism". At this point we're merely fighting for the scraps, like the right to sue the shit out of AT&T for violating their own privacy policies and having a fighting chance of winning.

@GeorgeD: You really think that people in the US are so different than people in the UK? Instead of self pity why don't you try your hand at making a difference. Rolling over is for dogs dude.

@HAGRUN I lived in the states for 5 years, so yes I know you are different, but that's another blog. The problem is that we have had active bombing campaigns in London for decades. (IRA etc). Consequently we have an institutionalised oppresive surveillance society that has recently intensified. We do protest frequently, but the tentacles are too deep. People of America rise up while you still can. And maybe giz isn't the right place for this!

if the government listens to my calls, does that mean i have more friends than i think i do? meaning not 0, but 1.

do you always get the same guy listening in or do they rotate? do they get paid a little less to listen to porn lines, for you know, the fringe benefits?

Maybe we should stop using phone companies then. I would doubt that this bill would include services like Skype (which is way cheaper anyway!!)

@jibbly: And what a dumb, inconsequential response. So the telecoms give money in exchange for not getting sued. Why not? They're the only ones exposed on this deal. The electorate is too busy playing partisan politics to actually punish any elected official for passing these laws, the people who implemented it have immunity, why wouldn't the telecoms try and head off any civil liability? And how does that knowledge change the fact that you're phone calls can be monitored?

Campaign finance reform? Spending limits? Government has been bought and sold as a commidity forever. Rich guys/companies cut right through the spending limits like butter, so for all the lip service paid to the 'working man', the average citizen means less than nothing to a politician. And as long as money determines who wins elections, those with money will determine how government runs. Writing letters might make you feel better, but it's like drinking salt water, the temporary relief from thirst only moves you closer to the end. And all the time they take away power and rights from the people, make the people more and more dependent on their nice Uncle Sam. So you can waste effort on cosmetic, futile gestures, or you can be aware, and fight battles you have a chance in hell of winning.

One word (well, 4 really) = VOIP. Let them listen to voice calls.. I'll continue paying AT&T $42 bucks/month for unlimited 3G data and use my WM phone and Skype ($60/year!) to make unlimited* calls. GG Sirs.

*Fair Usage/International restrictions.. blahblah

@GeorgeD: The difference between the UK and the US is that the cameras in the UK are in PUBLIC PLACES. I'm all for public safety like that - what we do in public is no longer private. What this bill does is not only protect dickhead telcos from having to answer to crimes they commit, but it allows for our personal correspondence to be made public (please remember that after 50 years, the government has the option to declassify information, making it public - these classified records that are 'of no use' will be declassified and entered into the Library of Congress). I don't care if people watch over my shoulder in public, but I'll be damned if anyone is going to 'watch me take a piss', so to say. Honestly I just wanted to say 'piss'.

And no one seems to care that the phone companies are giving this same information and more to marketing firms ... just to make a buck.

Oh, and a careful reading will show that the content of telephone conversations is NOT what is being tracked ... only the traffic, how many calls from location A to location B and for how long. No one cares what you are saying on the phone. Put down the koolaid and put the tinfoil hat away

@GeorgeD: Is it just me who thinks there's a big difference between cameras in public areas where any police officer could legally roam anyway and illegal wiretapping?

The only thing I can see that blurs the line in regards to this situation is using your cellphone to dial into the internet via your laptop. Will Verizon monitor the data you are transfering to and fro via the cellphone because you *DID* make a phone call into a server.

@amaduli:

It won't be illegal if the is passed by the government.

In the U.S.A., we still have our guns. It if gets too bad, we'll just shoot them all.

@LissaKay: Facts just get in the way of hyperbole.

@Wizardofpants Ah, we have surveillance in private places as well. In fact a muslim MP (senator) was recently wiretapped by the police, and whilst it made a few papers, no one really cared. If I can see a million cameras, imagine how many I can't see!

@Amaduli - it's what they do with the cameras that's scary. Auto face recognition systems, instant car tracking etc. Zero privacy.

I think we're all on the same side here - the MAN sucks, and we are all pawns in his monstrous scheme.

@ Logansix: Just wait till they start taking them away. Too bad UniBomber didn't send inkbombs to the lackluster senators.

@junyo: Soooo...essentially we're on the same side? Why do I feel like I'm in a lame sitcom pilot where two characters find out that they both love pizza and football and become BFF? And when is this sitcom shitcanned for more reality TV?

This is what happens when the USA still doesn't have any ammendments for a privacy bill.

The USA does not have any privacy rights, only assumed privacy referred to indirectly.

At least the UK actually has laws, and they are upheld by the EU courts.

And before everyone tells me how wrong I am, please feel free to look it up for yourself. The USA is one of the few western nations that has no laws to protect privacy, yet they are one of the first to criticise the Brits when it comes to surveillance.

I love how everyone who thinks they have everything figured out are always telling everyone else to "grow up".

@AlanJC: *cough* Please refer to Amendment IV of the US Constitution.

Any of you yellow ribbon stickered tough guys who want to roll over and give up your rights without a fight should get your vaginas checked. Your time is ticking down...

[www.backwardsbush.com]

@soulfinger: Grow up.

@soulfinger: Actually, last time I saw so many "grow up" statements was...CES prank.

@adam12hicks: And what happens adam, when the Christo-fascists take over for real and visiting meat.com becomes a crime? If you don't think that can happen think again. If you can.

@johnnyabnormal: lol

@junyo: You got it Junyo, the feds have been spying at will since the 70's, that apparatus is vast and is now integral to the operation of der stat. It can be dismantled, but not by the current congress or the next. The real government in America never changes, has never had an election, and never will. They are afraid of the people for if the people ever figure out what is really going on there will be a revolution, and then, and only then will the cameras come down.

@everyone: Anyone who doesn't care about their rights eroding:

Could you please give me your email usernames and passwords? I promise I won't send any emails or delete anything. I just want to read them for key words to see if you are a terrrrrerrrrrist. Better yet, I won't ask. I'll just hack in without asking. Have a nice day!

One more thing. No one "listens" to phone calls, anymore than they "read" emails. I am surprised the gizmodians don't know this. All traffic, voice and data is scanned by computers for key IP's, voiceprints, telephone numbers, key words, and analyzed for suspicious patterns. This data is also used to discover networks of communication and can even be used to identify the hierarchy of that network.

Remember that if you are identified as an enemy of the state, you will have no rights, and you will be tortured. It's all "legal" now.

If you don't think this is possible, check google, in a few hours this entire thread will be available for searching.

All this is fine if you trust your government and believe that Bush, Cheney and Chertoff have your best interests at heart.

And while you are googling, check NSPD 51, secret FEMA prisons, Project Northwoods, the Lavon Affair, and Perry Fellwock, Savior of the World.

@LissaKay: I seem to remember when both the fine print and the large print said that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and on that "basis" America invaded and killed 600,000 to 1.2 million people. And you trust the "fine print"? Really? Really?

I can't make the case here, but go read what Glenn Greenwald is saying about this issue over at www.salon.com. Feel free to post your "we just have to trust them" thoughts, get into the discussion and see if your arguments stand up. They won't.

Anyone else get the feeling that this game isn't fun anymore.
That, it really isn't a game at all?

@LissaKay: Oh, I forgot to mention. While you are busy repeating Rush's talking points about how to denigrate concerned citizens, make you keep your blinds closed. Saying someone has a tinfoil hat does nothing to address their arguments.

Peeping tom CCTV workers jailed

Two council CCTV camera operators have been jailed for spying on a naked woman in her own home...

[news.bbc.co.uk]

There's only one thing that this program was for, and that's spying on political opponents. There is NO other reason to avoid oversight so vehemently. Even the dumbest terrorist knows that their phones are almost certainly tapped, so it is of little use in preventing terrorism. When you can get warrants at the drop of a hat, or even 48 hours after you start, and when the court is little more than a rubber stamp, the only reason to not get warrants is because you are doing something illegal (and we know the repubs, and members of this administration especially, have a history of spying on political opponents). Of course not getting a warrant is itself illegal.

That's why there's nothing we can do to convince these repubs of changing their stance on this issue, because they know they're finished for another generation if it comes to light.

And amnesty for companies that made huge profits off breaking the law is just disgusting. I guess conservatives being tough on crime only applies to poor people.

@Gary_7vn: Is it just me, or are the usual chicken hawk/"global warming is a hoax" Michael Savage types shriveling away like slugs on salt lately? I'm so used to shouting in a room full of this:

[www.pensionriskmatters.com]

It's nice to see people actually giving a shit about things for once. Maybe because King George's rule is coming to a close? Speaking of which, he had some choice words the other day, saying Obama would "Attack Pakistan and embrace Ahmenidijad". They must be crapping their pants over on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue after recent voting activity.

@johnnyabnormal: Hi Johnny, thanks. Oh, and if you want my passwords just telnet into the NSA servers, I am sure that you will find them there.

@Gary_7vn: I'm glad you liked the Bourne Identity.

All voice traffic is analyzed by the NSA for suspecious patterns, but the McDonalds in my area use window and a live person instead of a computer for drive-thru and IVR systems require me to type in my phone number 11 billion times. Sure they do.

@drewheyman: So because McDonald uses a person and not a computer the NSA does not monitor telephone calls? Thanks for clearing that up.

I like the Bourne Identity. It's a good movie.

I also enjoy reality, you might like to try it some time.
[www.wired.com]

Please please tell me to "make sure your tinfoil hat is on straight". That would make you perfect.

To all those conspiracy theorists who fear the government will tap your phones, yadda, yadda, yadda... get your tin foil hat ready.

Don't you think that IF you had something to hide your means of communication would be encrypted?.
You can encrypt your phone, cell phone, VOIP application or e-mail and the government would not be able to do squat.
The average 256 bit encryption would take hours or days to get decrypted even with the most powerful computers.

IF you had something to hide and you do not use encryption, you deserve to be caught. It's as stupid as someone willing to rob a bank and walking a mile to the bank with all guns exposed...

Just Google your full name and go hide under a rock.

:)

@Gary_7vn: i didn't say they don't monitor phone calls. they do. they record phone calls, and some guys listen to them. the guys picks out keywords and decide if the conversations are of value. there are economies of scale with guys listening to phone calls that are minimized by computers picking out keywords, which they don't because, for the most part, they aren't reliable enough to be of much value.

but that's not what you said. i linked to your comment. go re-read it. the part i mentioned deserves the mockery i gave it.

and having worked with AT&T sys admins in the past, i trust that sys admins word on what he was building about as far as i can throw him, which is not very far if he weighs more than like 100 lbs.

but i didn't mention data. data traffic is easily monitored with a Cisco CSG, though it takes alot of them because each one can't handle that much traffic in a live production setting. i mentioned voice.