@dragon:ONE: I think Vizio is a bit like sharp. They give you a lot for the money, but that lot does not include reliability or affordable repairs.
If you want a throw-away tv. It's fine. I used to say the same thing about Samsung years ago, and Samsung has hugely improved upon their quality levels over the years.
At least Vizio is an actual brand, instead of some cheap manufacturer making tvs under a licensed name like Westinghouse or RCA.
The other thing not mentioned here. Most LCD sets cannot refresh 1080 lines per frame in 120 and 240 hz modes. It tends to be around 900 lines instead.
I loved the piece on HDTVs, but I still have a lingering question:
Could you, by chance, produce a list of good HDTVs that cost under, say $700, that deliver a nice picture and just a little more on top. I don't need anything awe-inspiring or terrifying. It's just that my 27" CRT TV is showing its age and I know its days are numbed.
HDTV-speak is a language I have tried and failed to learn. But if you could just do some testing and say "JUST BUY ONE OF THESE," well, then, it would take a load off my mind.
i bought a cheap vizio 32" 1080p earlier this year for ~$430. at the time, all i wanted was an HD flat panel tv - any one will do.
i hunted around and compared specs and whatnot, and settled on the vizio. months later, i'm beginning to have a bit of remorse regarding not going with a higher end TV.
don't get me wrong - it functions as it should, and works fine for what i use it for, mainly gaming. but the color is shitty, something someone who is halfway colorblind like myself shouldn't ever be able to notice.
contrast ratio sucks too. to get true black, i have to make every game look like it's taking place at night, which means... there's a lot of shit that you can't see. turn up the brightness and 'black' is more like 'blackish grey'.
there's also uneven side back lighting on one side. it's not noticeable when the scene is a bright one, but forget about playing splinter cell and really enjoying it.
on top of all that, the adjustments one can make to the picture are wonky, and for some reason the backlight is adjustable in every other preset except for CUSTOM.
its that kind of asshattery that just makes you stare at your tv in disbelief, doubly so because vizio IS AN AMERICAN COMPANY.
i'll forgive a little engrish or screwy translation when i buy something made in the land of the rising sun, but seriously, vizio. look up what the word 'custom' means.
so as a result, ill be selling it off fairly soon for around $350, and i'll shoot for a 42" with a respectable japanese moniker and a contrast ratio that has a comma in it.
@nutbastard: Ahh yes...the woes of the first HD set purchased for gaming...I've been there.
The first time I decided I needed to upgrade to the HD era was actually pretty early...about 5-6 years ago. I found a reasonably priced 36in 720p CRT set made by...ehh...some company beginning with a D...Dyson? Dixie? Dicknible? Well, the name escapes me. Let me just say...that thing was a BEAST. I HATED having to move that thing around...it weighed more than I did at the time (and that was when I was straight out of the Army). Not to mention that the picture was at BEST subpar.
The next set I decided upon was a 27in Samsung LCD, also 720p. That thing currently sits in my bedroom, and even though it's about 3-4 years old, it STILL has one of the best pictures I've seen to date. Love that set.
Then, in my horrible, unquenchable thirst for bigger and better HD, I purchased a 46in DLP from Sears. It was made by either Toshiba or Panasonic, can't recall at the moment. Regardless, I figured a 1k 1080i set would be a great investment for my gaming needs. I read somewhere that DLP's had the best features for gaming, so I thought I'd give it a shot...Don't get me wrong, the picture was OK...but only OK, and for $999 I assumed I'd be getting something along the lines of "good".
Alas, the bulb burned out in that one about 6 months ago. I was left with the decision: Spend $400 on a new bulb for the set, or use that money towards yet ANOTHER new TV.
As I sit here, in front of my 50in, 1080p Samsung plasma, only one thing REALLY comes to mind...go with Samsung. That company really has not let me down yet.
@Wilson Rothman: Yeah, I ran into that last night. Some guy was staring at a $40 12' HDMI cable so I pointed out monoprice to him. I guess someone at Best Buy tried to tell him that using Monster HDMI cable would make his 120hz look like 240...
Man was he ever grateful I wandered by. I used to sell TVs at Best Buy once upon a time before they started the huge designer cable purchasing push. It seemed much more honest then.
@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: The only reason this would make any sense is the Date transferring trough the HDMI cable, Say you buy a Nice Samsung that supports 120hz, and you get a cheap Dynex HDMI cable well the transfer rate on the cable is less then 8gps, Most manufactures recommend getting a cable that supports 120hz and the transfer rate is greater then 10gps So you can actually see the 120hz. But NO buying at 120hz ready monster cable will not make your t.v look like its running at 240hz.. the Data rate is that matters.
@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: You know what your right, Im just saying the source makes a difference as well, i have seen plenty of set up with 120hz t.v's with a component cable set up's and it looks great, but also t.v's with HDMI cables with faster strafer speeds and makes them look even better, it guess the television processor the source and the right cables will bring a better picture when the t.v is rending at 120 or 240hz.
@DJJS: 1.3a compliant is 1.3a compliant. Regardless of manufacturer.
However, most HDMI cables don't even say if they're 1.3a compliant or not. Mostly 1.3a exists to support resolutions higher than 1920 x 1080.
And yes, the source matters always. What is a strafer speed? Transfer? Transfer speed doesn't matter if the medium you're using doesn't transmit at it.
I'm just saying that you will likely not notice a difference between a generic and non-generic HDMI cable. While cable choice can help you maximize your experience, they cannot make a TV appear to be something it is not.
I'm always wary of the refresh rates, because one day at Best Buy I was watching a demo on a big, flat panel TV. King Kong was kicking the living shit out of some soon-to-be-dead dinosaurs, and when Mr. Kong would do action moves that normally had a natural motion blur to them that made them look realistic, this TV had such a high refresh rate (I'm assuming it is a refresh rate issue) that his motions looked unnatural and there was zero motion blur. It made the sequence look like a guy in an ape suit filmed on a set.
@Dr Durdon: Go plasma so you don't end up with the High Speed Shutter look of 120 and 240hz refresh rates would be where I'd start.
Staring at the 58" or whatever Samsung 8500 series LCD at 240hz I couldn't tell if I was watching Monday Night Football in HSS or Transformers 2 until Megan Fox showed up.
@Dr Durdon: Almost every set that is 120hz with this anti-judder, smoothing software has the option to disable it. which I would definitely do, unless it's animation or video games. To me, the anti-judder tech makes the traditional 24p of film look like it was shot on video, which we are used to associating with cheapness.
@Dr Durdon: Every set that advertises a rate higher than 60Hz has to do some signal processing to actually display the extra frames. Next time you go to a store to check out models, turn it off to see how well the panel performs with the raw signal.
@Dr Durdon: You can't. Rule of thumb is to check out the set in person and buy the same model online (if you're buying via internets). Most of the time this effect is caused by special modes enabled on the set the draw/replicate frames to fill the gap between the true frames as a way to counteract the innate issues with LCD refresh rates. HDGuru (as well as Giz IIRC) have at least one article/dicussion on this tech.
When in store see if you can manually, or with assistance, disable the motion fature (each manufacturer has a different marketing gimmick-name for it) to see if you're satisfied.
@00000000: I'd prefer to encourage people to buy in the store. Sure you can buy online and maybe save a little, but frankly you're screwing your local economy and eventually companies like Best Buy will be unable to have Brick & Mortar stores for you to see the TV in...
Not to mention the drawbacks of buying online such as you can't return the tv anywhere local if you get it home and hate it. Or if it doesn't work when it arrives you have to pay to ship it somewhere to get it fixed and/or replaced.
@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: Most definitely. Sorry If I came off as encouraging internet sales. I totally wasn't; if you're picking up a TV s'best to do it in person.
For a bit of insight though; I am an office-working, non-driving, suburban resident. Internet sales on most things are the best option for me. though, when buying a TV (soon) I'm most likely going to have a friend helkp me buy one in person.
@00000000: Right, but many local stores deliver. I paid $140 to have mine delivered (I live on an island) and the old one hauled off.
Mostly it just irritates me when people post the upsides of buying off the internet (Price) without mentioning all of the possible drawbacks because there are far too many people who feel entitled to waste a B&M store's time and money asking an employee questions and then they just go shop somewhere online to get the better price.
B&M stores have inherent higher overhead. But, if you have the capability, you can usually take the item home with you that very day.
@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: I hear ya and I still agree. though, with smaller items I buy online a ton. Larger expenses are something that I prefer to do in person. Not to mention the instant gratification as well as the piece of mind of knowing that it wasn't manahandled in transit.
Online purchases have limited options when it comes to backup plans.
Actually, I've been wanting that Android indicator for a while. Being constantly on for chat is convenient sometimes, but some of my more chatty friends get difficult to keep up with when I'm on my phone.
I just tried out this Labs feature (which apparently has to be turned on for the person viewing the chat list), and unfortunately, being logged into a desktop client doesn't override the Android icon. Still, it's kinda nice.
On the deranged paranoia front: what the heck? Websites can easily tell what browser/client you're viewing something from. Why is this so scary? I get that the "Google creep" is coming from the TechCrunch article (that's two idiotic things to come from that site today) and not Gizmodo, but still. You could not honestly be freaked out by this specifically unless you were already looking for it.
I was about to brag about how I was still running a previous version that, as of two weeks ago, still allowed Hulu to stream though mine. But then I opened iTunes to see which version it had, *sigh* I guess mine updated automatically. That shows how often we use it. I too am in the process of figuring out the best route to eliminate our cable. I'm leaning towards replacing the Apple TV with a Mac Mini or something else set up as a HTPC, at least until Apple can pull off this: [gizmodo.com]#appletv
@Scratic: Hulu and any other sources for free on-demand content would make the AppleTV so much better. I like being able to watch photos and pod-casts and YouTube on the TV, but it isn't enough to make it worth while. I also keep my AppleTV unplugged most of the time because of the heat. Rentals and buys have been replaced by my blu-ray player and Netflix subscription, so there's not much about it that I need.
As far as ditching cable goes, I just don't see how you do that. The ability to channel surf almost makes my Dish bill acceptable. Not sure I could live without that even if I could download all my favorite shows.
@PotteryBarnClearanceSale: Hulu on AppleTV was great while it lasted, albeit kind of choppy. As far unplugging cable goes, we already DVR almost everything we watch, so we're accustomed to watching on demand. The shows that we don't record (Community and Moderen Family are new favorites) are all network, which can be picked up through an HD antennae. The cable shows that we watch are almost all available through iTunes. A season pass for three of them is still less than one month cable. I will miss the convenience of flipping through channels. This is how I've found some favorite shows in the past. (Pawn Stars comes to mind, I will miss that guilty pleasure.) I'm hoping a side effect will be that we read more and listen to more music. #appletv
I use mine quite a bit--part of the "ditch cable" movement. As an A/V retailer I furnish and install a few of these per month. Really not a bad box. Could it be better? Of course. Could they add something like Netflix streaming? Sure. But hey, it works. #appletv
@PotteryBarnClearanceSale: ATV can sit on a shelf or there is a cute little wall bracket available that holds it flat against a wall or cabinet. Mine (and others) don't seem to get "hot". Warm, sure but not enough for concern. I have had Comcast DVRs get lots warmer and need a fan. #appletv
02:51 PM
11/19/09
Good job Matt.
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
If you want a throw-away tv. It's fine. I used to say the same thing about Samsung years ago, and Samsung has hugely improved upon their quality levels over the years.
At least Vizio is an actual brand, instead of some cheap manufacturer making tvs under a licensed name like Westinghouse or RCA.
11/19/09
And I'd personally go for a Sammy over one a Viz any day.
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
I loved the piece on HDTVs, but I still have a lingering question:
Could you, by chance, produce a list of good HDTVs that cost under, say $700, that deliver a nice picture and just a little more on top. I don't need anything awe-inspiring or terrifying. It's just that my 27" CRT TV is showing its age and I know its days are numbed.
HDTV-speak is a language I have tried and failed to learn. But if you could just do some testing and say "JUST BUY ONE OF THESE," well, then, it would take a load off my mind.
Thanks,
Logan
11/19/09
11/19/09
i hunted around and compared specs and whatnot, and settled on the vizio. months later, i'm beginning to have a bit of remorse regarding not going with a higher end TV.
don't get me wrong - it functions as it should, and works fine for what i use it for, mainly gaming. but the color is shitty, something someone who is halfway colorblind like myself shouldn't ever be able to notice.
contrast ratio sucks too. to get true black, i have to make every game look like it's taking place at night, which means... there's a lot of shit that you can't see. turn up the brightness and 'black' is more like 'blackish grey'.
there's also uneven side back lighting on one side. it's not noticeable when the scene is a bright one, but forget about playing splinter cell and really enjoying it.
on top of all that, the adjustments one can make to the picture are wonky, and for some reason the backlight is adjustable in every other preset except for CUSTOM.
its that kind of asshattery that just makes you stare at your tv in disbelief, doubly so because vizio IS AN AMERICAN COMPANY.
i'll forgive a little engrish or screwy translation when i buy something made in the land of the rising sun, but seriously, vizio. look up what the word 'custom' means.
so as a result, ill be selling it off fairly soon for around $350, and i'll shoot for a 42" with a respectable japanese moniker and a contrast ratio that has a comma in it.
11/19/09
The first time I decided I needed to upgrade to the HD era was actually pretty early...about 5-6 years ago. I found a reasonably priced 36in 720p CRT set made by...ehh...some company beginning with a D...Dyson? Dixie? Dicknible? Well, the name escapes me. Let me just say...that thing was a BEAST. I HATED having to move that thing around...it weighed more than I did at the time (and that was when I was straight out of the Army). Not to mention that the picture was at BEST subpar.
The next set I decided upon was a 27in Samsung LCD, also 720p. That thing currently sits in my bedroom, and even though it's about 3-4 years old, it STILL has one of the best pictures I've seen to date. Love that set.
Then, in my horrible, unquenchable thirst for bigger and better HD, I purchased a 46in DLP from Sears. It was made by either Toshiba or Panasonic, can't recall at the moment. Regardless, I figured a 1k 1080i set would be a great investment for my gaming needs. I read somewhere that DLP's had the best features for gaming, so I thought I'd give it a shot...Don't get me wrong, the picture was OK...but only OK, and for $999 I assumed I'd be getting something along the lines of "good".
Alas, the bulb burned out in that one about 6 months ago. I was left with the decision: Spend $400 on a new bulb for the set, or use that money towards yet ANOTHER new TV.
As I sit here, in front of my 50in, 1080p Samsung plasma, only one thing REALLY comes to mind...go with Samsung. That company really has not let me down yet.
12:20 AM
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
Man was he ever grateful I wandered by. I used to sell TVs at Best Buy once upon a time before they started the huge designer cable purchasing push. It seemed much more honest then.
11/19/09
11/19/09
01:14 AM
01:44 AM
However, most HDMI cables don't even say if they're 1.3a compliant or not. Mostly 1.3a exists to support resolutions higher than 1920 x 1080.
And yes, the source matters always. What is a strafer speed? Transfer? Transfer speed doesn't matter if the medium you're using doesn't transmit at it.
I'm just saying that you will likely not notice a difference between a generic and non-generic HDMI cable. While cable choice can help you maximize your experience, they cannot make a TV appear to be something it is not.
11/19/09
How can I avoid this when buying online?
11/19/09
Staring at the 58" or whatever Samsung 8500 series LCD at 240hz I couldn't tell if I was watching Monday Night Football in HSS or Transformers 2 until Megan Fox showed up.
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
When in store see if you can manually, or with assistance, disable the motion fature (each manufacturer has a different marketing gimmick-name for it) to see if you're satisfied.
11/19/09
Not to mention the drawbacks of buying online such as you can't return the tv anywhere local if you get it home and hate it. Or if it doesn't work when it arrives you have to pay to ship it somewhere to get it fixed and/or replaced.
11/19/09
For a bit of insight though; I am an office-working, non-driving, suburban resident. Internet sales on most things are the best option for me. though, when buying a TV (soon) I'm most likely going to have a friend helkp me buy one in person.
#tips
11/19/09
Mostly it just irritates me when people post the upsides of buying off the internet (Price) without mentioning all of the possible drawbacks because there are far too many people who feel entitled to waste a B&M store's time and money asking an employee questions and then they just go shop somewhere online to get the better price.
B&M stores have inherent higher overhead. But, if you have the capability, you can usually take the item home with you that very day.
11/19/09
Online purchases have limited options when it comes to backup plans.
#tips
11/18/09
I just tried out this Labs feature (which apparently has to be turned on for the person viewing the chat list), and unfortunately, being logged into a desktop client doesn't override the Android icon. Still, it's kinda nice.
On the deranged paranoia front: what the heck? Websites can easily tell what browser/client you're viewing something from. Why is this so scary? I get that the "Google creep" is coming from the TechCrunch article (that's two idiotic things to come from that site today) and not Gizmodo, but still. You could not honestly be freaked out by this specifically unless you were already looking for it.
11/18/09
11/18/09
Also, seriously, Ferrari styling on a netbook? Seriously?
11/16/09
11/08/09
11/08/09
As far as ditching cable goes, I just don't see how you do that. The ability to channel surf almost makes my Dish bill acceptable. Not sure I could live without that even if I could download all my favorite shows.
11/08/09
11/08/09
11/08/09
11/08/09
Yep, for what it does it does it great. Netflix streaming would make it awesome.
When you do installs, where do you put it and how do you compensate for the heat? #appletv
11/09/09