Nutbastard runs Ubuntu? I had no idea.

What is new in this distro? Is there anything actually interesting?

Linux news would be more appreciated if it was useful. That is to say, if Linux was useful. I'm sure the people who like it are perfectly happy, but there's reasons critics say it's not ready for the general public and why, if given a choice, people will pay for Windows rather than get Linux for free. And if people choose Windows over Linux, I can't even imagine how much worse than OS X it is.

nope, still ugly as hell. Seriously, why can't a linux distro not look like something from 1995? I guess aesthetics is one of those nice features you have to actually pay for.

File this comment under, "I could make my own furniture for less than that."

I'm gonna wait for the official release - hopefully it fixes my desktop compositing compiz-fusion eyecandy issues (although i think metacity is to blame - stupid disappearing titlebars when i turn on the cube...) which are the only issues i have, and being completely unnecessary, it doesn't bother me much, but damn, the cube/wobbly windows is cool!

@multimoog:
"if Linux was useful."
what is it that windows/osx does that linux doesn't that makes it useless?

@dallasmay2:
go look at some youtube videos of compiz-fusion - it's far from ugly and while the default theme is rather drab (i like it personally) it's absolutely 100% customizable.

@dallasmay2: I'm guessing that you havn't used linux since 1995? After about an hour of tweaking the UI on Ubuntu is vastly superior to OSX or Windows.

@madcoweater:
and with no tweaking it's somewhere between windows and OSX, although things like UIs are hard to quantify comparatively.

"if given a choice, people will pay for Windows rather than get Linux for free."

Most people don't mess with things as low level as an OS - the computer comes with Windows, works as well as they've been conditioned to believe it can, so they leave it be.

The fact is most people don't know how decent the current linux distros are, or even that they exist, and 'linux' carries a stigma of being only for programmers and virgins. People ALWAYS fear change.

@dallasmay2: Look into KDE 4. I use it with Kubuntu on my tower at home and it looks amazing.

@nutbastard: Man! It's that compiz stuff that's the main reason I wanna try Ubuntu! (I just love the eye candy!) The stability and ease of use and all that too, haha.

Btw, does that Compiz stuff come WITH Ubuntu?

@nutbastard: I was thinking about trying Ubuntu out on my older PC that i'm not using right now but i am the n00bz at the Ubuntu should I think about this or another ver. and anything i should read up on?

@ParJoe:
as of 7.10, yes compiz comes preinstalled, although metacity is the default compositing engine

Now, now guys, play nice with the ignorant windows users. Seriously though, lets not turn this great little piece of Linux attention into another idiotic OS flamewar.

@merm:
i'm...trying...so...hard...to hold....back!

aren't all OS posts predetermined by unwritten law to be flamewars by default?

Ubuntu is interesting, but I'm voting for Hillary.

Hey nutbastard im thinking about trying out ub on a spare PC and didnt know if this is something i should think about or think about another version and is there anywhere i should go to read up on ub so i have an idea of what im doing

@dallasmay2: They fixed that... it's called OS X. It's Darwin Linux with a cover. Apple is smart because instead of re-inventing the wheel like Microsoft, they just steal regular calls in Linux and branded them as amazing features.
Spotlight - Linux commands "updatedb" and "slocate"
Network Utility - simple network commands like "netstat", "ping", "finger"
Spaces - Well Linux has had 4 desktop screens since 2000 when I started using it.

See the problem with Linux is they can't get together and market their product. OS X seems to be the only distro thats getting some traction. It's still Linux for nerds that like to do "ps -ax" then "kill -9 PID", but it's also windows for the business guy who wants to double-click on the "Activity Monitor", click on a process and "Quit Process"

Can't we all just get along? :) I dual-boot XP and Ubunutu. Compiz-fusion leaves my desktop looking s-l-i-c-k. I have a sad fascination with the rubbery windows effects. Even using my graphic tablet for my main pointing device, I can use Ubuntu for everything I do with Windows, including watching movies, downloading torrents, scanning negatives from the darkroom, and printing to my canon photo printer.
I recently built a computer for a neighbor and I dropped Ubuntu on it... no problems learning the ropes. I also get less calls for help :)

"See the problem with Linux is they can't get together and market their product."
because under the GNU they can't sell or patent the code, there's no reason for the creators to pay for ad space and push it on people - if you build it, they will come.

Well, I'll have to disagree with everyone who disagreed with me. KDE 4 still looks boxy and gray. There is just no flow with the colors. And if you really expect the typical user to spend an Hour or more fixing your systems aesthetic problems, you really need to adjust your philosophies.

For Linux to go anywhere it HAS TOO LOOK GOOD OUT OF THE BOX! First install. If it doesn't, if a user has to spend an hour just to make it look decent, that user is going to assume that the rest of it is crap too.

I have used linux in the last decade. I installed Ubuntu 6 on an old Dell a year ago, and it cemented my belief that Apple is the only OS maker that gives a passing thought to what a typical user wants and needs.

(By the way, Darwin is not Linux, sure Apple has stolen some of it's features, but that doesn't make it Linux.)

@dallasmay2:
darwin is the front end for unix, and they're functionally indistinguishable.

"KDE 4 still looks boxy and gray."

so does a fresh XP install until you *gasp* change the theme.

ubuntu is extremely useful... what isn't useful is that you can't get some absolutely required software (like Photoshop) to run under Wine... I would be extremely overjoyed if there was just a simple way to boot into my current Windows install within a window, the way that Wubi is supposed to boot into Linux from within Windows. That way I could just run it when I needed something like Photoshop, and you still need an actual install of Windows.

Anybody have any experience with Windows/Linux Parallels?

Oh, and please don't tell me to learn to use Gimp... after a decade of mastering Photoshop, there's just no comparison at all...

@nutbastard: Thanks dude.

I plan on trying it out when I have another place to move/back up my important files. I just can't risk losing them if I mess up the install.

I don't know how people could have anything against Linux. It's one thing if you can't use it as your regular os. Otherwise, HELLO...it's completely FREE and regularly updated! Not to mention the numerous other reasons to try it.

one of the great features to, is the live cd. Anybody here every tried using the repair console on windows. Talk about antiquated. I dual boot as well. Ubuntu seems to be the new red hat, so we shall see.

@kokodhem: Not be be argumentative but I'm fairly certain Photoshop runs under wine now.

[osdir.com]

@kokodhem:
while true, PS doesn't run under WINE, and although it's getting better, Gimp still doesn't even come close to PS, and with PS learning curve taking a lot of invested time and effort, i can understand why PS is a major hangup.

on the other hand, blame Adobe - the mac version would require (relatively) little modification as it's already running under what is basically a *nix on x86 hardware.

@nutbastard:

I don't know what version of XP you are referring to, but any fresh install I've ever done with it has always had the Green Start Button as the default theme.

Yes you can reset windows to look ugly and gray, but that certainly hasn't been the default since 2000.

On the other hand. Ubuntu's default is Brown on Brown on Brown. I know what they are going for here, the whole Human theme, but it is just a bad idea. Work on aesthetics. People expect even the cheapest crap from wal-mart to at least look good from a distance.

@kokodhem:
ok i didn't see that or i wouldn't have evn mentioned Gimp - i know how tired that argument is.

Anyone know where I can get a VHD of Ubuntu Mobile for demo purposes on a desktop?

@dallasmay2:
"I don't know what version of XP you are referring to"

XP SP1, Vanilla, non-oem (Not a Dell or HP CD) defaults to W2K-like theme.

"On the other hand. Ubuntu's default is Brown on Brown on Brown."

I suspect they make it drab for a couple of reasons:
1. to avoid cloning the look of other OS's
2. to be easy on resources by default
3. to make it so drab that it encourages you to customize it, make it your own - after all that's a big part of what linux is about - there's NOTHING you cannot potentially alter in any way/shape/form

You can duplicate the complete look and feel of OS X with some effort:

[www.howtoforge.com]

and there's other that make it look and work just like XP. Or a BeBox. and if you don't like any of those theres tons of user created themes that install with absolutely no pain.

@DBNull:
I'd suggest you get in contact with canonical directly.

Here is Ubuntu
[www.osnews.com]

Here is OSX Tiger
[www.winsupersite.com]

Here is OSX Leopard
[64-bit-computers.com]

Here is Windows XP
[www.winsupersite.com]

Here is Windows Vista
[people.chem.umass.edu]

These are the Out-Of-the-Box themes. The Ubuntu community has work to do.

2008 is going to be the 'year of Linux'

For anyone complaining about the boxy look of Linux, you should download a Ubuntu LiveCD and give it a go (no partitioning or anything, all on CD). There is no commitment, and putting it on a USB drive allows you to keep persistent changes. All of the 'I've tried it before' comments seems familiar - I tried Slackware back in '97, and hated it too. My first re-try of Linux was the crappy eee OS, my second was the LiveCD of 7.10.

I'm finding it harder and harder to say no to Linux - Ubuntu is beautiful.

@dallasmay2: "KDE 4 still looks boxy and gray"

Ubuntu uses Gnome...maybe you tried Kubuntu?

...oh and some people like brown.

@dallasmay2:
that's not current ubuntu in the first screenshot. that's 5.04 and it's pretty old now.

this is gutsy:
[www.michaeldolan.com]

@nutbastard:

Again I have to say that there is a fundamental flaw with the "... make it so drab that it encourages you to customize it" philosophies. The flaw goes like this:

99% of the population of the world, just wants their computers to work. They don't want to customize it. If they have to call their CS major kids to change the background to something more pleasing immediately after installing the dang thing, they are going to assume that the whole system is broken.

@kokodhem: Crap. I thought there was a version on wine that would run PS.

Someone posted on Lifehacker that they're running PS in VirtualBox. They didn't say how well it works though.

and here's a small taste of the multiple desktops cube:

[lh3.google.com]

although you really need to look at video to understand how cool compiz is. just google video for compiz gutsy, there's tons of cool things you can do with it.

@dallasmay2:
"99% of the population of the world, just wants their computers to work."

It does work. How it looks has nothing to do with how well it works. It's functional, it's just not blue by default. A quick trip to the Appearance preference allows you to select from other themes that come with it, and installing other themes is a snap.

@kokodhem: Apparently there are numerous groups working towards getting photoshop working well on linux. Google and Disney among them. Don't give up hope!

@nutbastard:

I did notice that I posted an old Ubuntu sceenshot just a second ago,

I was just about to repost this one
[toddsingleton.net]

But my complaint still remains. It's not where near as refined as OSX or Windows. If if it doesn't look good, than regular people will assume it isn't as good underneath either. Jumping to a new OS is scary as it is with out the feeling your are downgrading in "look and feel".

"They don't want to customize it. If they have to call their CS major kids to change the background"

If they can't figure out how to change the background in Ubuntu, they can't do it in ANY OS. I'm not even sure people like that can wipe their own asses and dress themselves. A right click on the background gives a context menu with one of the options being, "Change Desktop Background"

@dallasmay2:
You know, I really think you're overestimating how much influence a GUIs appearance has on peoples decision to use it - look at cellphones, horrible UIs everywhere, and people still buy em. Look if the layout, the functional organization of Ubuntu were as convoluted as XPs, i think you'd have a point.

@kokodhem: Virtualbox is like vmware, but opensource, you can boot up windows in linux and let it run "seamlessly" in the background:

[blog.slyon.de]

I use it for the adobe programs and it works flawlessly without a visible performance loss.

@dallasmay2: If someone is really that picky on how his OS is supposed to look like, he'll most likely take the time to customize it.

It all boils down to personal taste anyway. I personally keep my winXP on the default (black&white) theme because I don't like all these kiddy colours and crappy effects, as I find it easier to navigate without them.

@nutbastard:

Don't get me wrong on this. I like Linux, I wish HP, Dell, and Lenovo would push linux further than the hobbies they have now. I would like to see apple support linux with a version of iTunes and Quicktime. I would much rather use Ubuntu at work than XP (and believe me I have asked our IT guy at my high school I I could do that, he said no.)

But it still looks like hell, and the average user shouldn't have to spend an hour to fix that. And the average user is not going to do so.

Meh, they're all pretty good (yes, including Vista), and have their respective advantages and disadvantages. Choice ftw!

@dallasmay2:
Here are some easy to install window themes for Ubuntu:
Vista: [art.gnome.org]
Graphite: [art.gnome.org]
Metativo: [art.gnome.org]

It goes on and on. Here's some implimentations of various themes:

[art.gnome.org]
OS X ?Vista mix :[art.gnome.org]
full vista: [art.gnome.org]

@nutbastard:

Actually your comment about how people keep buying cell phones inspite of the UI seems like a perfect example of what I am talking about. People HATE their cell phones. People buy a new one every year if they can. Neither MS nor Palm could figure out how to actually sell them in reasonable quantities.

Apple Figured it out. The iPhone was amazing, not because it was a music playing phone, not because it had internet, not because it had video, but because it was ACTUALLY USEABLE! Apple had spent time thinking about the UI. And the iPhone has by far the highest user satisfaction.

User Interface matters tremendously.

PuppyLinux's front end is pretty damned clean, for a <100 megabyte OS. openSuse is fairly comparable to XP's blue and green interface, although it's a *little* bit heftier, and its File Manager is more comparable to Vista's in terms of good design. Neither Slax nor Ulteo that bad. If you're going nuts over the Mac OS X look, PUD makes a reasonable approximation of it.

Ubuntu's not the best looking one, I'll admit, but there are some pretty good front-ends out there.

Apparently there are numerous groups working towards getting photoshop working well on linux. Google and Disney among them.

Just go GIMP.